10/1: Game #163 - Milwaukee Brewers @ Chicago Cubs 12:09PM CT ESPN

[CSF77]

As expected, you completely missed the point.

I was referring to you and your ilk, who come here ONLY to predict doom and gloom, and celebrate it on the rare occasions that you are correct.

When the Cubs win, you are nowhere to be found. When they lose, you're dancing like the bullpen.

He accually posts pretty regular. Ya know having a opinion is fine. If what is happening is working then quiet is a good thing. How many times on the job do we not get complements for good work outside of awards? But when the shit is on the fire it gets very noisy. Joe shouldn’t be above this for his decisions. Like I said he yanked Q after 64 and paid for it late. Time before 75 and paid. So there is a real problem happening and it has to do with trust and depending on the weakest link. That is bad judgement and not learning from it.

All I can say is if they get knocked out it is not all on Joe because the O did squeeze shut again. But it was a poor judgement on the exact same situation regardless.

 

[Holy Cow]

Memo to management..develop some key bullpen pieces..you’ve had years to address this organizational weakness

 

[Ari Bear]

So x2. Yank Q early. 2 solid by Chavez. Then burp

I’m blaming Joe here. He screwed up again with not trusting Q

The O ya gotta blame. Once again and again and again. They don't produce!

 

[anotheridiot]

Q was leading off the next inning. My thought was he wanted more offense than Q being done. Think he realize he needed more runs quickly before Hader was in.

so he also pulled Schwarber expecting Hader to come in the game to pitch to him?

 

[beckdawg]

Memo to management..develop some key bullpen pieces..you’ve had years to address this organizational weakness

Not really a fair complaint. 1) they didn't invest in pitching high in the draft. And while you can say they should have, if they do that then you're subtracting pieces from their core of hitters. 2) even if they had taken pitchers high, they take time to develop. For example, Trevor Clifton was drafted in their second year with the team. He's only now in AAA and he didn't get hurt at any point. 3) the players they had left over from the previous front office are non-existent pitching wise. You had Cashner and Shark at the major league level but they were 3-4 years too early for where the team was. Since then have they gotten anything from the previous regime? Maybe you argue Maples might turn into something but they've had to piece together their pen with cast off retreads like Duensing for multiple years.

We're only now starting to be in a position where there's half decent pitching at AA/AAA. In the next few years you're going to have arms like ODLC, Albertos if he can figure out his yips, Alzolay, Lange, and Little among others who are going to be useful to them. The good teams are teams that have that sort of depth throughout their organization and can pull guys in and out of the pen as they get redundancy. The previous front office didn't leave them in a position to do that. They had to build it all from scratch.

 

[kapooncha]

As expected, you completely missed the point.

I was referring to you and your ilk, who come here ONLY to predict doom and gloom, and celebrate it on the rare occasions that you are correct.

When the Cubs win, you are nowhere to be found. When they lose, you're dancing like the bullpen.

And you're missing my point. You and those of your ilk kept dismissing my concerns during the season saying "Cubs will be fine" and quoting FanGraphs about win probability. How did that work out hot stuff?

 

[beckdawg]

so he also pulled Schwarber expecting Hader to come in the game to pitch to him?

I mean you can second guess decisions all day long. I'm not necessarily saying what Maddon would have done is what I would have done. But if you don't want your pitcher leading off the bot 6 who else are you moving? Schwarber had got the second out of the previous inning so double switching there puts your pitcher 8 batters away. It also puts in a better defensive outfielder in Happ in a 1-1 game with a runner on base when he removed Q.

Was it the "right" move? IDK. But I do know letting Q hit in a 1-1 game where your offense isn't doing much isn't a good probability for an outcome. You're basically banking on him pitching well enough and long enough that the easy out he would be wont matter. And from my standpoint, once Hader/Jeffries gets into this game I think it would have been incredibly hard for the cubs to score. So, I don't have an issue taking your shot there. If Happ sets up an inning to score you may not even seen Hader/Jeffries.

 

[Milton Waddams]

LA 4
CO 0
Top 6th

Looks like it'll be CUBS v Colorado

 

[Holy Cow]

Seven years...still waiting

 

[TL1961]

Memo to management..develop some key bullpen pieces..you’ve had years to address this organizational weakness

The bullpen was a strength all year, and lost its closer and the next man up to be closer. How many bullpens withstand that?

 

[Holy Cow]

Was

 

[CSF77]

Q was leading off the next inning. My thought was he wanted more offense than Q being done. Think he realize he needed more runs quickly before Hader was in.

Still a part of the decision process and trust. If it was Cole or Kyle or Jon they are hitting. Joe did this to Kyle in the past also so this is a core issue with Joe going on.

 

[CSF77]

LA 4
CO 0
Top 6th

Looks like it'll be CUBS v Colorado

Hope so. I want payback. **** Milwaukee

 

[beckdawg]

Still a part of the decision process and trust. If it was Cole or Kyle or Jon they are hitting. Joe did this to Kyle in the past also so this is a core issue with Joe going on.

Not sure I agree with this. I think it has nothing to do with Q and everything to do with fearing MIL's bullpen. You know Hader and maybe Jefferies are looming for the 8th/9th and you know how hard it is to get hits off them. That means you have the 6th and 7th to score runs. And it's not like Knebel is easy either. So, in order to leave Q in the game you're essentially believing you can out last their bullpen long enough to score. Given the way they were hitting and given the state of the cubs own bullpen are you really going to have faith?

I mean play the situation out. Best case, Q is only getting you through 7 if that. He was at 64 pitches and hadn't gotten anyone out in the 6th so you're easily talking 30 pitches to get through 2 more innings. If that's the tact you take you're not playing to win the game in 9 innings. You're playing for extras... when you may have to play tomorrow if you can't hold MIL scoreless. Ultimately they had to score runs. Q batting for himself doesn't help that. If you want to argue he gave them a better shot of not giving up runs that's fine but even before he left he'd given up 6 hits and the cubs offense had put together 3 for an entire game. Chances are high he'd yield before MIL did.

 

[A.C. Milan]

I'm scared and angry at the same time, we played and we lost good.. but on a 162 games schedule the league should look at the 19 meetings between the teams, it can't come down to game 163 with the wild card the day after, we are now facing elimination with the best record in the NL, i don't think it's right

 

[SweetHomeChicago]

You get 3 hits and people wanna blame the manager? SMH....

 

[beckdawg]

So, on the plus side of losing today.... cubs pick 27 in the draft next year instead of 28th.....that's good right..... right guys...?

 

[chibears55]

Not sure I agree with this. I think it has nothing to do with Q and everything to do with fearing MIL's bullpen. You know Hader and maybe Jefferies are looming for the 8th/9th and you know how hard it is to get hits off them. That means you have the 6th and 7th to score runs. And it's not like Knebel is easy either. So, in order to leave Q in the game you're essentially believing you can out last their bullpen long enough to score. Given the way they were hitting and given the state of the cubs own bullpen are you really going to have faith?

I mean play the situation out. Best case, Q is only getting you through 7 if that. He was at 64 pitches and hadn't gotten anyone out in the 6th so you're easily talking 30 pitches to get through 2 more innings. If that's the tact you take you're not playing to win the game in 9 innings. You're playing for extras... when you may have to play tomorrow if you can't hold MIL scoreless. Ultimately they had to score runs. Q batting for himself doesn't help that. If you want to argue he gave them a better shot of not giving up runs that's fine but even before he left he'd given up 6 hits and the cubs offense had put together 3 for an entire game. Chances are high he'd yield before MIL did.

Everything Maddon did was in fear of the Brewers bullpen...

The Cubs needed the lead after the 5th inning, and Counsell manages the game and bullpen a whole lot differently to save his big 3 for tomorrow must win game.

 

[chibears55]

I mean you can second guess decisions all day long. I'm not necessarily saying what Maddon would have done is what I would have done. But if you don't want your pitcher leading off the bot 6 who else are you moving? Schwarber had got the second out of the previous inning so double switching there puts your pitcher 8 batters away. It also puts in a better defensive outfielder in Happ in a 1-1 game with a runner on base when he removed Q.

Was it the "right" move? IDK. But I do know letting Q hit in a 1-1 game where your offense isn't doing much isn't a good probability for an outcome. You're basically banking on him pitching well enough and long enough that the easy out he would be wont matter. And from my standpoint, once Hader/Jeffries gets into this game I think it would have been incredibly hard for the cubs to score. So, I don't have an issue taking your shot there. If Happ sets up an inning to score you may not even seen Hader/Jeffries.

He had to double switch there and it wasn't going to be Heyward (defense)..
Otherwise he either only gets 1 inning of Chavez or Chavez bats the bottom of the next inning .

I got that move

Cubs lost this game because of the lack of offense, that it

Bullpen in shambles, more reason the offense needs to score runs

 

[kapooncha]

The bullpen was a strength all year, and lost its closer and the next man up to be closer. How many bullpens withstand that?

Lol. The next man up to be closer was injured because of Maddon's stupidity. It was self inflicted so you can't give the Cubs a pass for that. Plus, Cubs should have brought back Davis to be closer, Morrow should have been the 8th inning guy.

Maybe Davis shuts our asses down tomorrow and we get to see another team celebrate on our field.