2013 MLB Draft Thread: Cubs with #2 pick

[Cubs2008]

This debate, like so many others, seems to have people taking extremes on both sides.

I think last year there were a lot of questions/fears about how it would play out financially. I tend to agree with KB that you should take the best player you can in the first round. I mean, when you're talking about having the best players or second tier players, why would you not want the best?

On the other hand, I'm not disappointed with last years draft. There is power in numbers. If we can add Appel, and a couple more guys like Baez and Almora this year and next, then you're bound to hit on a couple. Even if the odds against any one player are low, you only need to hit on a couple.

Look at the Nationals, they took a couple sure thing first rounders in Harper and Strasberg, hit on a couple Zimmermans, added a couple of guys through free agency, and are now relevant.

I think the Cubs could be there in a couple of years if they decide to pick the can't miss guys, and open the check book for the product at the major league level. Not to say I agree with throwing away a handful of years because I don't. But since we are, let's get the best players!

 

[CSF77]

Don't matter. Not like he would have made the team this year anyways. Still don't like the pick but the wrist injury didn't bother me. Happened. Turns out it is pretty common and they removed the bone. Not like he snapped his Ulna or Radius bones.

 

[KBisBack!]

I think the Cubs could be there in a couple of years if they decide to pick the can't miss guys, and open the check book for the product at the major league level. Not to say I agree with throwing away a handful of years because I don't. But since we are, let's get the best players!

That is a lot of what my thoughts are.

If you are going to throw away seasons, you better get the can't miss guys.

Almora isn't close to a can't miss guy.

We will see if they pick the can't miss guy this year, but I won't be surprised if we start hearing in the next couple weeks how the Cubs just love some HS kid and have him #1 on their board.

And I am also really not interested in hearing about how 'committed' the Cubs are to spending money because they spent all of their $7 odd million on the draft last year.

That is peanuts compared to the big picture, but a great piece of PR they can use to fool the masses.

 

[dabynsky]

Well I correctly pointed out that Almora has yet to play in REAL games.

And again, Sandoval is an established major league hitter, not a kid out of HS trying to start his first full year of professional baseball.

Not even close to the same situation.

You began the discussion with major league players citing Derrek Lee as a player with a wrist injury that really hindered a player long term. I cited the example of Pablo Sandoval to point to the fact that the injury Almora suffered is not even in the same class as what happened to Derrek Lee. It sucks that Almora lost two months of development time, but this idea that this in it of itself is going to derail his entire career, the actual word that I used which you said had already happened, is the only thing that is the stretch in this discussion.

What is silly is you changing what was said.

When did I say they had zero chance? Never?? Didn't think so.

When did I say that they should forfeit the rest of their picks? Never?? Didn't think so.

Did I say use rounds 2-10 to draft 4 year college players who probably have the same exact chances of contributing to the organization as a bunch of HS players? Yep.

You're suggesting was to sign players for a 100k with no leverage. Those type of players have the most limited upside compared to the type of players the Cubs actually took, which includes both high school and college players. Take a look at the players the Cubs drafted in the last rounds of the top 10 which were about signability to have enough to go overslot on the first round pick. That is what you are suggesting the Cubs draft for the entire draft. Yes that is sacrificing the remainder of the draft for guys that are organizational filler.

And exactly why would college seniors have no upside? Well other than it fits your agenda.

I guess if college seniors have no upside, missing out on Pierce Johnson last year (college senior) wouldn't have been as huge a loss as you are saying it would be.

6 of the 12 picks in the first 10 rounds last year were college seniors with apparently no upside.

First of all Pierce Johnson was a junior last year. Second of all, it isn't their college status that means they have no upside, but rather the fact that you are taking guys that would be willing to sign for as much as a million less than slot recommendations. That is what means their upside is extremely limited.

I have said very clearly to draft college seniors in rounds 2-10, not trade away the picks or forfeit the picks.

I have said take the best player available and then select players in rounds 2-10 that might have a half percentage worse chance of making it to the majors than some high school lottery ticket.

If the HS kids taken in rounds 4-5 were as great as some agendas want them to be, they would be first round draft picks.

Is there any post ever that you disagree with that isn't about some agenda? Just curious.

People were pointing out that established hitters had the same injury and it didn't hurt their production.

I pointed out that an injury, that has already cost Almora a month of real game time, can have his development slowed by both the missed time and the injury as he isn't an established major league hitter.

And again, it sucks that Almora lost development time, but this idea that it has completely derailed his career, a suggestion you made by drawing a comparison to an established player with a completely different injury, is why this discussion took place.

 

[Willrust]

Post by KB:

"We all saw how much a wrist injury hindered D. Lee who was already an established major league hitter who had won a batting title."

Response from Dabynsky:

"Almora suffered a Hamate bone injury that is actually relatively common. He has already played in a rehab game and is working his way back. Pablo Sandoval suffered through the same injury last year and we see how much it has hindered him."

Response from KB:

"And again, Sandoval is an established major league hitter, not a kid out of HS trying to start his first full year of professional baseball.

Not even close to the same situation."

SO... it is fine to compare Almora's injury to D. Lee because both had a wrist injury, but not to compare Almora to Sandoval; despite them having very similar injuries?



#hypocrisy

 

[KBisBack!]

It sucks that Almora lost two months of development time, but this idea that this in it of itself is going to derail his entire career, the actual word that I used which you said had already happened, is the only thing that is the stretch in this discussion.

Fine.

Let's split hairs then.

His injury has certainly had a major impact on his very important early development stages of his professional career.

Happy?

You're suggesting was to sign players for a 100k with no leverage. Those type of players have the most limited upside compared to the type of players the Cubs actually took, which includes both high school and college players. Take a look at the players the Cubs drafted in the last rounds of the top 10 which were about signability to have enough to go overslot on the first round pick. That is what you are suggesting the Cubs draft for the entire draft. Yes that is sacrificing the remainder of the draft for guys that are organizational filler.

Wrong.

I am suggesting it for rounds 2-10.

Not the entire draft.

After the first ten rounds, only bonuses above 100K count against the cap. There are extremely few players drafted after round 10 who get over $100k which is what it would take for that money to be counted as part of the draft budget I believe.

So why even have a draft longer than 10 rounds then if none of these players have any upside?

I guess Pujols drafted in the 13th or 14th round and signed for $60k didn't have any upside?

Matt Szczur was a 4 year college player drafted and signed for $100k and he played in the Futures Game in 2011. Guess he didn't have any upside?

Chris Rusin was drafted in the 4th round for a bonus of $140k. He had enough upside to make it to the majors.

Casey Coleman was a 15th round draft picked signed for $100k that had enough upside to make it to the majors.

All four year college players signed for right around the $100k number I mentioned and that is only looking back the last 4-5 years.

So it clearly wouldn't be near as bad as your agenda thinks it would be.

Besides with all the money being spent on scouting instead of the major league roster, clearly Theo and Co could do better than Hendry who completely ignored the minor league systems right??

First of all Pierce Johnson was a junior last year. Second of all, it isn't their college status that means they have no upside, but rather the fact that you are taking guys that would be willing to sign for as much as a million less than slot recommendations. That is what means their upside is extremely limited.
Is there any post ever that you disagree with that isn't about some agenda? Just curious.

Ok. Baseball Reference had him listed as a 4yr college player.

Secondly, the only other pick that has a slot value of over $1M is the second round pick. So my plan involves signing ONE PLAYER to $1M less than slot value. Not quite the multiple players per year that you try to make it out to be.

Sure there are posts that I disagree with that dont have an agenda. But when you ignore facts and drastically change what I have said, it sure looks like an agenda.

And again, it sucks that Almora lost development time, but this idea that it has completely derailed his career, a suggestion you made by drawing a comparison to an established player with a completely different injury, is why this discussion took place.

Since he has yet to play a competitive game after the injury, the long term impact is not known.

So it is impossible to say it definitively will not derail his career.

We do know for a fact it has set him back at least two months.

 

[KBisBack!]

Post by KB:

"We all saw how much a wrist injury hindered D. Lee who was already an established major league hitter who had won a batting title."

Response from Dabynsky:

"Almora suffered a Hamate bone injury that is actually relatively common. He has already played in a rehab game and is working his way back. Pablo Sandoval suffered through the same injury last year and we see how much it has hindered him."

Response from KB:

"And again, Sandoval is an established major league hitter, not a kid out of HS trying to start his first full year of professional baseball.

Not even close to the same situation."

SO... it is fine to compare Almora's injury to D. Lee because both had a wrist injury, but not to compare Almora to Sandoval; despite them having very similar injuries?



#hypocrisy

Not hypocrisy at all, but that does't stop you from filling your diaper to satisfy your fetish of arguing everything I have said.

 

[Willrust]

Not hypocrisy at all, but that does't stop you from filling your diaper to satisfy your fetish of arguing everything I have said.

:enough:

 

[Rice Cube]

MLBTR notes:

The Cubs have not missed a start from college righties Mark Appel or Jonathan Gray, but they have expanded their search beyond those two, GM Jed Hoyer told Jim Bowden on MLB Network Radio on Sirius XM yesterday. The Cubs draft second overall next month, and despite Hoyer's lip service, they're widely expected to take Appel or Gray after the Astros pick.