2015-2016 Blackhawks Off season thread

[Shantz My Pants]

I think it makes plenty of sense. Oduya didn't bring much offensively but he was very solid defensively, doing it against the other teams top line most nights, blocking shots, and playing a solid PK part. Daley is going to bring another aspect to the Blackhawks, contribute offensively and with speed, but saying that they are "probably the same defensively" just isn't close to accurate. I think Daley will be just fine when it comes to slotting into the #4/5 spot here, but he just isn't as good defensively as Oduya was. Just because Daley is on the Blackhawks and Oduya isn't, doesn't mean that he is simply better...

I edited my original response and agreed on some of what you put up here, but I would agree Oduya probably is a bit better, but I would say Daley isn't that much worse.

I couldn't care what team Oduya or Daley were on. I think Oduya did well in his role. I think Daley will bring a bit more to the Hawks for the style they play. I wish Oduya the best but I'm fine with Daley in his place.


Sent from my Texas Instrument Calculator

 

[Ton]

I think it makes plenty of sense. Oduya didn't bring much offensively but he was very solid defensively, doing it against the other teams top line most nights, blocking shots, and playing a solid PK part. Daley is going to bring another aspect to the Blackhawks, contribute offensively and with speed, but saying that they are "probably the same defensively" just isn't close to accurate. I think Daley will be just fine when it comes to slotting into the #4/5 spot here, but he just isn't as good defensively as Oduya was. Just because Daley is on the Blackhawks and Oduya isn't, doesn't mean that he is simply better...

I think it's pretty accurate... did you think that Oduya was "very solid defensively" before he came to the Hawks?

Daley played on the PK and PP for the Stars.... was 2nd on his team for blocked shots (123)... which was the same as Oduya (123).

I don't see how this is a bad comparison. And quite honestly, I don't really believe you've ever watched Daley if you don't see the similarities of what he's about to bring to the Hawks.

 

[Raskolnikov]

OK, so if Oduya and Daley is a fucking wash.....then we are talking

Johns and Sharp for Garbutt. What kind of sense does that make? I like the Saad trade alright....I would have preferred taking assets back for Sharp and sign Oduya for the cost of Daley and Garbutt, about 4.4 mil

in that scenario we still have Johns and Oduya. Plus Assets.

 

[HeHateMe]

I think it's pretty accurate... did you think that Oduya was "very solid defensively" before he came to the Hawks?

Daley played on the PK and PP for the Stars.... was 2nd on his team for blocked shots (123)... which was the same as Oduya (123).

I don't see how this is a bad comparison. And quite honestly, I don't really believe you've ever watched Daley if you don't see the similarities of what he's about to bring to the Hawks.

I think the main reason Oduya became a better defenseman when he got to Chicago is because he was mainly paired with Hjalmarsson, who is probably the most underrated defenseman in the league. Just like Sharp, when you go to another team and do not get to play with great players like the Hawks have, that’s when you find out how good that player really is.

 

[HawkWriter]

I think it's pretty accurate... did you think that Oduya was "very solid defensively" before he came to the Hawks?

Daley played on the PK and PP for the Stars.... was 2nd on his team for blocked shots (123)... which was the same as Oduya (123).

I don't see how this is a bad comparison. And quite honestly, I don't really believe you've ever watched Daley if you don't see the similarities of what he's about to bring to the Hawks.

I've watched Daley plenty and obviously Oduya as well. I'm basing it on what I have seen from the both of them on the ice. My opinion, which I stated very clearly was on the basis that a post here said they are "probably the same defensively". Oduya is better than Daley on the defensive side of the puck.

Oduya played very well early on when he was a member of the Devils and things dropped off when he played with the Thrashers/Jets. I am aware of where Oduya was as a player before coming to the Blackhawks.

I've stated that I think Daley will do just fine here as a #4/5 guy. He has good speed, vision, and will bring more on the offensive side of things.

 

[Ton]

I've watched Daley plenty and obviously Oduya as well. I'm basing it on what I have seen from the both of them on the ice. My opinion, which I stated very clearly was on the basis that a post here said they are "probably the same defensively". Oduya is better than Daley on the defensive side of the puck.

Oduya played very well early on when he was a member of the Devils and things dropped off when he played with the Thrashers/Jets. I am aware of where Oduya was as a player before coming to the Blackhawks.

I've stated that I think Daley will do just fine here as a #4/5 guy. He has good speed, vision, and will bring more on the offensive side of things.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised then, if you really believe that there is that big of a difference.

 

[ClydeLee]

Daley had a weird year, he had a pretty good all around season the year before in 13/14 in terms of what you would expect from him. Last year he boosted the offensive play to a career high but was categorically one of the worst corsi guys in the league. It's a different guy than Oduya but he's not far off from the situation Oduya was in where his time in Atlanta/Winnipeg he struggled. Though more still average in regards to Quality of competition and other factors. The situation you are in definitely will affect that. For instance Rundblad lead all Dmen in simply bland corsi across the league. We'll see more likely breakaway 2 on 1 situations let up by Daley though if he is still playing the game he can play.

But that little hhm comment about Sharp is quite not fitting. Sharp still is going to be playing with great offensive players in the role to help him. It's interesting to see though if he switches his game back to more defensively oriented to help the club. As the last few years he really shifted toward more cherry-picking for the breakaways which works when your pair is Toews-Hossa. Next to Spezza or Seguin, the might be better off having Sharp play less aggressive offensively.

 

[Ton]

Daley had a weird year, he had a pretty good all around season the year before in 13/14 in terms of what you would expect from him. Last year he boosted the offensive play to a career high but was categorically one of the worst corsi guys in the league. It's a different guy than Oduya but he's not far off from the situation Oduya was in where his time in Atlanta/Winnipeg he struggled. Though more still average in regards to Quality of competition and other factors. The situation you are in definitely will affect that. For instance Rundblad lead all Dmen in simply bland corsi across the league. We'll see more likely breakaway 2 on 1 situations let up by Daley though if he is still playing the game he can play.

But that little hhm comment about Sharp is quite not fitting. Sharp still is going to be playing with great offensive players in the role to help him. It's interesting to see though if he switches his game back to more defensively oriented to help the club. As the last few years he really shifted toward more cherry-picking for the breakaways which works when your pair is Toews-Hossa. Next to Spezza or Seguin, the might be better off having Sharp play less aggressive offensively.

He had a bad year on the defensive side of the puck last year, but I think he was told to go out and contribute offensively. He's not going to have that here and will probably be slotted into the same role that Oduya had. He has a similar skill set, and I think Q will get the same out of him that he got out of Oduya.

For what it's worth, from THN:

Assets:	Owns outstanding mobility and durability. Has tremendous athleticism and solid all-around ability. Is a dedicated worker and solid team player. Can log huge minutes.
Flaws:	Since he's a little undersized, he can struggle when up against big forwards in front of the net. Can at times make bad decisions with the puck in the defensive zone.
Career Potential:	Mobile big-minute defenseman.

Who does that sound like?

Oduya has come on strong and cleaned up a lot of those defensive zone giveaways, but when he first arrived to Chicago, this was exactly what people described him as. He still has those brain farts from time to time, but people still consider him a very good defenseman, and I really think that Q did a good job to mask his deficiencies.

 

[HeHateMe]

I've watched Daley plenty and obviously Oduya as well. I'm basing it on what I have seen from the both of them on the ice. My opinion, which I stated very clearly was on the basis that a post here said they are "probably the same defensively". Oduya is better than Daley on the defensive side of the puck.

Oduya played very well early on when he was a member of the Devils and things dropped off when he played with the Thrashers/Jets. I am aware of where Oduya was as a player before coming to the Blackhawks.

I've stated that I think Daley will do just fine here as a #4/5 guy. He has good speed, vision, and will bring more on the offensive side of things.

I’ve seen a ton of games Oduya played since the Hawks got him. I know what he is. A decent defenceman. Nothing more. Little offensive skill and prone to turnovers when hit. Had an outstanding playoffs but was not good in 2014 playoffs and was just ok in regular season. Quit acting like this is a premier defencive player, he's a grinder and needs to have good people around him to be effective.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah....but even with Oduya we were in absolutely dire straights barely hanging on defensivley to not blow the cup run on simple depth.

Now the immediate future is gone, Oduya is gone, and Daley is supposed to be what Oduya was for us in last years playoffs? I don't care about offense, we needed 4 defensemen that could go go go FOREVER and not die, can Daley do that?


Someone answer me. If Daley and Oduya are a wash, why not sign Oduya for nothing. Move Sharp for future assets even if they aren't great high picks, just get picks and hope. Then trade something shitty for Garbutt.

What the **** is this Sharp and Johns for Garbutt shit if Oduya/Daley is a wash?

 

[Ton]

Yeah....but even with Oduya we were in absolutely dire straights barely hanging on defensivley to not blow the cup run on simple depth.

Now the immediate future is gone, Oduya is gone, and Daley is supposed to be what Oduya was for us in last years playoffs? I don't care about offense, we needed 4 defensemen that could go go go FOREVER and not die, can Daley do that?


Someone answer me. If Daley and Oduya are a wash, why not sign Oduya for nothing. Move Sharp for future assets even if they aren't great high picks, just get picks and hope. Then trade something shitty for Garbutt.

What the **** is this Sharp and Johns for Garbutt shit if Oduya/Daley is a wash?

He can definitely do that, Daley logged big minutes for the Stars and was basically their #2 defenseman the last 7-8 years -- arguably the #1 guy some years.

That scouting report provided was a scouting report on Daley, not Oduya. I just brought it up because I think they do have similar skill sets, and I think that Q will be able to get the most out of Daley, just as he did with Oduya on the defensive side.

 

[winos5]

We need to force other teams to trade us the assets we demand in all trades.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

Yeah....but even with Oduya we were in absolutely dire straights barely hanging on defensivley to not blow the cup run on simple depth.

Now the immediate future is gone, Oduya is gone, and Daley is supposed to be what Oduya was for us in last years playoffs? I don't care about offense, we needed 4 defensemen that could go go go FOREVER and not die, can Daley do that?


Someone answer me. If Daley and Oduya are a wash, why not sign Oduya for nothing. Move Sharp for future assets even if they aren't great high picks, just get picks and hope. Then trade something shitty for Garbutt.

What the **** is this Sharp and Johns for Garbutt shit if Oduya/Daley is a wash?

Dude you need to chill..

At this point, Daley is better for the Hawks. He's two years younger, faster and handles the puck much better. I think defensively they aren't too far apart.

Plus, the deal wasn't Sharp+Oduya+Johns for Daley and Garbutt. We got about as fair of a trade as we can with Sharps salary and everyone knowing our cap space issues.

We also have depth on D still in the system. Svedberg, Pokka (who might be NHL ready), Dahlstrom, Norell, Forsling, Fournier. No reason to be too worried.


Sent from my Texas Instrument Calculator

 

[ClydeLee]

Yeah....but even with Oduya we were in absolutely dire straights barely hanging on defensivley to not blow the cup run on simple depth.

Now the immediate future is gone, Oduya is gone, and Daley is supposed to be what Oduya was for us in last years playoffs? I don't care about offense, we needed 4 defensemen that could go go go FOREVER and not die, can Daley do that?


Someone answer me. If Daley and Oduya are a wash, why not sign Oduya for nothing. Move Sharp for future assets even if they aren't great high picks, just get picks and hope. Then trade something shitty for Garbutt.

What the **** is this Sharp and Johns for Garbutt shit if Oduya/Daley is a wash?

Daley is also cheaper than what Oduya reasonably could of signed for. This has been part of the point some people acknwoledged the moment of the trade. Oduya for less than he was making already? Would of been a huge staying discount, the discount even whatever it was he would of taken for hte Hawks still probably wouldn't of hit that level. It's well understood and been understood days ago Sharp's 5.9 Mil wasn't easy for any team to eat for assets. It needed to involve a player making a deal like Daley. So you get to move Sharp and get a cheap 4/5 for 2 years... yeah that value did cost Johns sadly and shamefully.

They need 3 guys to really groom and fit into the role as regulars if they can keep Seabs and he stays playing well alongside Keith/Hammer. TVR looks like one, Pokka is hopefully one that's the role of how it looks for the potential future. And out of the rest of the group Trev listed, there is a guy just as likely to have NHL success as likely as Johns could be. He's far from a lock though he did have a strong finish to the AHL season that got people excited.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Daley is also cheaper than what Oduya reasonably could of signed for. This has been part of the point some people acknwoledged the moment of the trade. Oduya for less than he was making already? Would of been a huge staying discount, the discount even whatever it was he would of taken for hte Hawks still probably wouldn't of hit that level. It's well understood and been understood days ago Sharp's 5.9 Mil wasn't easy for any team to eat for assets. It needed to involve a player making a deal like Daley. So you get to move Sharp and get a cheap 4/5 for 2 years... yeah that value did cost Johns sadly and shamefully.

They need 3 guys to really groom and fit into the role as regulars if they can keep Seabs and he stays playing well alongside Keith/Hammer. TVR looks like one, Pokka is hopefully one that's the role of how it looks for the potential future. And out of the rest of the group Trev listed, there is a guy just as likely to have NHL success as likely as Johns could be. He's far from a lock though he did have a strong finish to the AHL season that got people excited.

Yeah...I think that trade is worth essentially a $2,000,000 Cap increase if you want to look at it like that. Thats a worth a high value. Getting Garbutt at a rookie salary is useful. And Oduya at 3.5 The Johns add-in is just sickening.

And for me thats just being on the HHM side of wanting to get more physical and intimidating in areas we can since we will always be Toews/Kane/Teuvo cored moving forward. When we find pop we gotta keep em.

 

[italianbeef]

Oduya, Sharp, and Johns for Daley? Jesus. Is he that good?

And Garbutt is a throw in? ****

That's really not how it works. Oduya wasn't part of that trade.

 

[HeHateMe]

Yeah...I think that trade is worth essentially a $2,000,000 Cap increase if you want to look at it like that. Thats a worth a high value. Getting Garbutt at a rookie salary is useful. And Oduya at 3.5 The Johns add-in is just sickening.

And for me thats just being on the HHM side of wanting to get more physical and intimidating in areas we can since we will always be Toews/Kane/Teuvo cored moving forward. When we find pop we gotta keep em.

Hells yeah.

 

[Raskolnikov]

That's really not how it works. Oduya wasn't part of that trade.

But if you played your dollars in your own favor he was. Its all playing the hand your dealt. The deal makes keeping him impossible and undesirable. He is a casualty of the deal directly if you ask me. And thats why I don't like the balance sheet when I include him. The trade has an effect on the whole picture, and I consider those effects to be part of the consequences going forward from and should be factored into the equation when making and were and its done and Johns is gone and I don't fucking know why it couldn't have been one of the Swedes they are so high on.

 

[ClydeLee]

But if you played your dollars in your own favor he was. Its all playing the hand your dealt. The deal makes keeping him impossible and undesirable. He is a casualty of the deal directly if you ask me. And thats why I don't like the balance sheet when I include him. The trade has an effect on the whole picture, and I consider those effects to be part of the consequences going forward from and should be factored into the equation when making and were and its done and Johns is gone and I don't fucking know why it couldn't have been one of the Swedes they are so high on.

It does make keeping him impossible and undesirable... because you got a guy 2 years younger at likely 800k-1.5mil cheaper than you could of kept Oduya at.

The hawks have won 3 cups with hardly any physicality at Defense on this club.. it's not something crucial or even systematically desirable on D. Seabs since Q arrived adjusted his game to it and it's got an advantage for a puck moving club. It was Johns because Dallas wanted someone who could play for them hopefully this season, that leads to only being TVR, Johns, Or Pokka as the targets. TVR already showed good NHL ability skating and Pokka has higher upside still so you keep him.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

It does make keeping him impossible and undesirable... because you got a guy 2 years younger at likely 800k-1.5mil cheaper than you could of kept Oduya at.

The hawks have won 3 cups with hardly any physicality at Defense on this club.. it's not something crucial or even systematically desirable on D. Seabs since Q arrived adjusted his game to it and it's got an advantage for a puck moving club. It was Johns because Dallas wanted someone who could play for them hopefully this season, that leads to only being TVR, Johns, Or Pokka as the targets. TVR already showed good NHL ability skating and Pokka has higher upside still so you keep him.

I wouldn't say TVR has good skating ability. I think Holmstrom could beat him in a straight away.... But I see your point.


Sent from my Texas Instrument Calculator