*2015 AL Central Thread*

[brett05]

Is he going to be long relief or are you bringing him in for an inning? And BTW, for all the talk that the bullpen issues were fixed in the offseason, that Top Ten list guy didn't have the Sox pen in the top half, I get why you would consider wanting Rodon up. Smoltz is an example I'm thinking of. He went from being a successful starter for years to being a closer for about 3 seasons and then went back to being a starter at the end of his career because he felt he could help the club more in the SP role. He returned to being a starter after an off-season of training.

I'd say he'd be a one inning guy. not the mop up guy.

He did not, but he also wouldn't be shocked to see the White Sox pen as one of the best given the work they did in the off season.

Super Fan wager for a week that the White Sox have a better pen than the Cubs at the end of 2015?

 

[Parade_Rain]

I'd say he'd be a one inning guy. not the mop up guy.

So if you do that, how are you going to condition his arm to start in the middle of the season?

He did not, but he also wouldn't be shocked to see the White Sox pen as one of the best given the work they did in the off season.

Super Fan wager for a week that the White Sox have a better pen than the Cubs at the end of 2015?

How is that determined? What's the wager?

 

[brett05]

So if you do that, how are you going to condition his arm to start in the middle of the season?

How is that determined? What's the wager?

So once you think you want Rodon to go starter you move him to multiple innings and then he'll get a few shots at a three or four inning RP spot for Danks/Noesi, then he starts a game or two for 4-5 innings and then he's ready to be a 6-7 inning starter for the remainder of the season. All predicated on pitch count puke of course.

 

[brett05]

How is that determined? What's the wager?

You and I would have to agree on the categories and such.

Do you remember when I lost to I want to say SilenceS? I was a super fan of the Cubs for a week.

 

[Parade_Rain]

So once you think you want Rodon to go starter you move him to multiple innings and then he'll get a few shots at a three or four inning RP spot for Danks/Noesi, then he starts a game or two for 4-5 innings and then he's ready to be a 6-7 inning starter for the remainder of the season. All predicated on pitch count puke of course.

Game situations don't just create themselves where it makes sense to bring in a reliever for multiple innings at a specific time in the season. If that would really happen, it would be better to send him down to AAA for starter duty where he is guaranteed X amount of innings and win or lose, pull for pitch count, etc., it doesn't impact the Sox' playoff race. Once his arm is in shape, bring him back up to start.

 

[Parade_Rain]

You and I would have to agree on the categories and such.

Do you remember when I lost to I want to say SilenceS? I was a super fan of the Cubs for a week.

"Go, Cubbies! " Yes. I remember. I'll have to think about it, but we have plenty of time.

 

[brett05]

"Go, Cubbies! " Yes. I remember. I'll have to think about it, but we have plenty of time.

Cool. I'm actaully looking forward to it. I think we both believe our individual bullpens could be special this year.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

So if you do that, how are you going to condition his arm to start in the middle of the season?

How is that determined? What's the wager?

All pitchers in the BP have been starters at some point in their career. Teams promote relievers to the rotation all the time, been doing it for years. None of this is calculus or rocket science. Rodon will be on an innings/pitch count anyway. You're not going to see him pitch 7 or 8 innings anytime soon, regardless of where the Sox put him.

What I would do is use Rodon in situations out of the BP at first. Bring him in with two out and two runners in scoring position in some late inning and see how he responds. The you steadily increase his workload from there. If he's blowing guys away and has good command of atleast three pitches, you insert him into the rotation. Easy Peezy.


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[Parade_Rain]

All pitchers in the BP have been starters at some point in their career.

Thanks, Captain Obvious. That isn't true once they get drafted, however.

Teams promote relievers to the rotation all the time, been doing it for years.

Why don't you provide the list for us? Let us know how much Scherzer, Strasburg, Verlander, Smoltz, Maddux and the overwhelming majority of starting pitchers were worked into their respective team's rotation. If it happens all the time as you say, every team in the MLB should have more than a handful you can just name off the top of your head.

None of this is calculus or rocket science. Rodon will be on an innings/pitch count anyway. You're not going to see him pitch 7 or 8 innings anytime soon, regardless of where the Sox put him.

Did you think of that all by yourself? Was this supposed to be earth-shattering information?

What I would do is use Rodon in situations out of the BP at first. Bring him in with two out and two runners in scoring position in some late inning and see how he responds. The you steadily increase his workload from there. If he's blowing guys away and has good command of atleast three pitches, you insert him into the rotation. Easy Peezy.

This portion of your post has great entertainment value. Thank you.

 

[The Hawk]

It's truth. A marathon runner doesn't go out and run 26.2. He must be conditioned. A Closer can't go more than a handful of batters, etc. If you;ve conditioned a player to be a sprinter, he isn't going to be a long distance runner just because you want him to be. That's why Czar keeps discussed stretching out his arm.

The problem that you have is that you just don't understand what goes into decisions regarding what role certain pitchers are going to have and then how best to tailor a training and conditioning regimen around them. I have told you that just about every pro pitcher drafted while in high school was a starting pitcher. Almost as many were in college This means they were given a training regimen at this level to support pitching 5 + innings at a time. Then they get drafted into the pros.

It is an entirely different animal in the pros. Assessments get made and sometimes these assessments change from year to year depending on the pitcher and the needs of the organization. But you hanging onto this notion that if Rodon starts off as a relief pitcher he won't be able to become a starter is just not true. They really would not need to "stretch out his arm", his arm is already stretched out. IF they were to start the guy in the pen after spring training and then wanted him to change to a starter later in the year, they could do it pretty easily. A short trip to Birmingham for about a month and if all goes well a return to Chicago. Put him on a pitch limit and build him up gradually.

But all that assumes that he can pitch in the bigs. They don't know that yet as they don't know that for any player drafted. The fact that a little more than half of all top two draft picks even make the major league club is proof of that.

 

[The Hawk]

Not stirring the pot, more of a question. I seem to recall a lot of pitchers being BP arms and within a month getting the arm stretched to be a full time starter. No?

I don't know about being a full time starter but there certainly have been relief pitchers turned into starters during the same season. The thing is that a team has to be careful in and when they do this stuff or they can end up with a mess. mentally and physically.

 

[The Hawk]

Do you really want to be jacking around with that while the team is making a playoff run? The answer is that some of this depends on how the Sox as a team are performing.

I am now officially lost on what we are talking about. This has taken quite a few turns from what it started to be, namely whether the Sox make Rodon a starter right away or not.

 

[Parade_Rain]

The problem that you have is that you just don't understand what goes into decisions regarding what role certain pitchers are going to have and then how best to tailor a training and conditioning regimen around them. I have told you that just about every pro pitcher drafted while in high school was a starting pitcher. Almost as many were in college This means they were given a training regimen at this level to support pitching 5 + innings at a time. Then they get drafted into the pros.

It is an entirely different animal in the pros. Assessments get made and sometimes these assessments change from year to year depending on the pitcher and the needs of the organization. But you hanging onto this notion that if Rodon starts off as a relief pitcher he won't be able to become a starter is just not true. They really would not need to "stretch out his arm", his arm is already stretched out. IF they were to start the guy in the pen after spring training and then wanted him to change to a starter later in the year, they could do it pretty easily. A short trip to Birmingham for about a month and if all goes well a return to Chicago. Put him on a pitch limit and build him up gradually.

But all that assumes that he can pitch in the bigs. They don't know that yet as they don't know that for any player drafted. The fact that a little more than half of all top two draft picks even make the major league club is proof of that.

I'll give you a piece of advice here. You should stop acting as if you know more about baseball operations and the differences between HS baseball and the pros. It isn't helpful to the discussion and it isn't a persuasive argumentative position.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I am now officially lost on what we are talking about. This has taken quite a few turns from what it started to be, namely whether the Sox make Rodon a starter right away or not.

The question Brett posed was toward me and the response I made was toward Brett. Perhaps you don't understand how internet forums work.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

The question Brett posed was toward me and the response I made was toward Brett. Perhaps you don't understand how internet forums work.

Talk about arguing for arguement's sake. Your obstinance continues to run this thread into deeper levels of ineptitude with each successive page.

Time to stop feeding the animal. For the love of god, please close this thread.


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[The Hawk]

I'll give you a piece of advice here. You should stop acting as if you know more about baseball operations and the differences between HS baseball and the pros. It isn't helpful to the discussion and it isn't a persuasive argumentative position.

Advice taken. I know what I know and you know what you know. You may think that you know what I know but that is what little that you know

 

[Parade_Rain]

Great post, Hawk. Seriously. Good fun.

I also want to add that for some reason you are reading into my position that if they make Rodon a RP this season, he will always be a RP. That is not my stated position at all.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Great post, Hawk. Seriously. Good fun.

I also want to add that for some reason you are reading into my position that if they make Rodon a RP this season, he will always be a RP. That is not my stated position at all.

And as a matter of fact, now that I go back and read further, this is part of the issue.

The problem that you have is that you just don't understand what goes into decisions regarding what role certain pitchers are going to have and then how best to tailor a training and conditioning regimen around them. I have told you that just about every pro pitcher drafted while in high school was a starting pitcher. Almost as many were in college This means they were given a training regimen at this level to support pitching 5 + innings at a time. Then they get drafted into the pros.

It is an entirely different animal in the pros. Assessments get made and sometimes these assessments change from year to year depending on the pitcher and the needs of the organization. But you hanging onto this notion that if Rodon starts off as a relief pitcher he won't be able to become a starter is just not true. They really would not need to "stretch out his arm", his arm is already stretched out. IF they were to start the guy in the pen after spring training and then wanted him to change to a starter later in the year, they could do it pretty easily. A short trip to Birmingham for about a month and if all goes well a return to Chicago. Put him on a pitch limit and build him up gradually.
...

So looking at your bolded part, well before you made your post, I stated this-

Game situations don't just create themselves where it makes sense to bring in a reliever for multiple innings at a specific time in the season. If that would really happen, it would be better to send him down to AAA for starter duty where he is guaranteed X amount of innings and win or lose, pull for pitch count, etc., it doesn't impact the Sox' playoff race. Once his arm is in shape, bring him back up to start.

So essentially, you are saying the same thing I am, which makes your comment that "I just don't understand what goes into decisions, blah, blah, blah..." seem very odd. Perhaps a cubs fan is your red blanket. :dunno: