2015 Baseball Hall of Fame elections

[TL1961]

He went from playing C to 2B to CF. How many people are athletic enough to make those changes? We aren't talking about corner positions. Up the middle is truly elite.

I'm never a dick. Extremely dry and sarcastically humorous, yes.


Amphetamines first of all have been illegal without a prescription since 1970. Amphetamines are part of the group of drugs used to treat ADD, thus they increase a player's concentration skills. So not only are they dangerous to use, they provide a player an advantage at game time against the opponent. They don't belong in the game and are worse than steroids. Look in my response to Brett discussing amphetamines. It's still all over baseball.

I have no problem with that!

 

[TL1961]

I know speed helps concentration, but I refuse to believe talking speed boosts a player's performance anywhere near as much as steroids.

I am not saying they didn't help - the players clearly thought they did if they took them.

Maybe they took them more to recover from hangovers.

 

[2323]

Very true. The writers weren't exactly Woodward and Bernstein when it came to steroids. A guy here in St. Louis, Bernie Miklasz, would openly ridicule any fan who questioned Mark McGwire's fake numbers after he was caught with Andro in his locker. Andro was not illegal, so Bernie would scream "It's a dietary supplement!". He and others willfully went along on McGwire's 70 HR ride. But the minute Bonds passed 70, steroids mattered in St. Louis. That is a perfect example of fans being OK with it as long as it is their guy. (And for the record, I was never one to defend Sosa's "accidental" use of a corked bat.)

And, yes, Selig went along for the ride. And he will be enshrined, and instead of being criticized for turning a blind eye, he will get credit for baseball's tough policies.

As for whether a PED user is already in, I don't know who it would be, but I think it's very possible there is one. But if that is a mistake, we shouldn't compound it by ignoring use by others.

It simply isn't fair to non users who come up short of the Hall to vote in known users with somewhat better numbers. Forget the moral aspect. I am simply stating that rewarding a PED user with 560 HR's vs. not rewarding a Non user with 490 is hard to justify.

There is simply no way of being certain what any player's accomplishments would be if he had not used PED's. There is speculation, and there is no avoiding it.

I do not know for fact that Fred McGriff never used PED's. (I am no big McGriff fan, BTW. But he is a good example) Take a look at Fred McGriff's body over his career. Or Ken Griffey Jr. Then do the same for Sosa and Bonds and McGwire. Tell me if you see similarities. I don't.

As I posted yesterday, Costas summed it up like this, when discussing speculation. "We aren't throwing a guy in jail or depriving him of his livelihood. We are withholding an honor."

Shouldn't compound it? Quite honestly, the sports writers are worse now than they were in the 90s. They look at drug testing as a safety net...an excuse not to scrutinize players as much. But the problem is, it's not like guys aren't still getting caught. Of those who are getting caught, how many are getting away with it? The sports writers act like the testing program provides a level of assurance...but does it really? And, at least to my knowledge, they still do t have a means by which to test for HGH. I could be blanking on that though. So anyway, even with the testing, things may not be so different now than they were in the 90s.

 

[2323]

FWIW, there was no cheating until the Players Union agreed to testing and punishment.

This is a good point. Guys are rejected by voters even though it wasn't cheating. But now that it is cheating, they'll get in depending on whether they get caught.

 

[Parade_Rain]

And BTW, Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[2323]

Pete Rose? No way. It was explicitly verboten.

 

[Parade_Rain]

4,256

 

[Shawon0Meter]

I hope no obvious steroid guys ever get in.

 

[TL1961]

4,256

So, if he is found guilty of murder, he shouldn't go to jail either?

4,256 after all.

Nope - committed a crime against the sport. Found guilty. Punished. End of story.

The punishment for that crime is banishment from baseball. He knew it. He committed the crime. He should be out.

He clearly had the credential to be in if it were not for the fact he committed the only crime that keeps you out. The ridiculous, unproven notion that he only bet ON his own team doesn't change the fact. And it's beyond crazy to believe anything he says after he lied about every detail of his betting, and later admitted to what he denied.

He should be out. Always.

 

[Parade_Rain]

So, if he is found guilty of murder, he shouldn't go to jail either?

4,256 after all.

Nope - committed a crime against the sport. Found guilty. Punished. End of story.

The punishment for that crime is banishment from baseball. He knew it. He committed the crime. He should be out.

He clearly had the credential to be in if it were not for the fact he committed the only crime that keeps you out. The ridiculous, unproven notion that he only bet ON his own team doesn't change the fact. And it's beyond crazy to believe anything he says after he lied about every detail of his betting, and later admitted to what he denied.

He should be out. Always.

LOL. Betting on baseball and murder are equal. Where do people come up with this crap.

 

[Tampabear]

Shouldn't compound it? Quite honestly, the sports writers are worse now than they were in the 90s. They look at drug testing as a safety net...an excuse not to scrutinize players as much. But the problem is, it's not like guys aren't still getting caught. Of those who are getting caught, how many are getting away with it? The sports writers act like the testing program provides a level of assurance...but does it really? And, at least to my knowledge, they still do t have a means by which to test for HGH. I could be blanking on that though. So anyway, even with the testing, things may not be so different now than they were in the 90s.

I could be wrong, but didn't the players union agree to allowing blood tests for HGH?

 

[JimJohnson]

I'm ok with it. Player conduct is one of the requirements. What he did to Zim would make me keep him off for one year.

Give me a break with this shit. Zim came at Pedro and Pedro simply threw him aside and Zim went tumbling. Pedro didn't punch or smack him, just tossed aside a charging man.

 

[brett05]

And BTW, Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.

I agree, after he dies.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I could be wrong, but didn't the players union agree to allowing blood tests for HGH?

Yes. The program began in 2013.

 

[TL1961]

LOL. Betting on baseball and murder are equal. Where do people come up with this crap.

I KNEW someone would say this!

I refuse to believe you can't think better than that.

This in NO WAY compared betting on baseball to murder. It compared two situations with two VERY DIFFERENT crimes/transgressions, and asked why should one be met with its prescribed punishment and the other not.

I did not suggest life in prison for betting on baseball.

You can not be that obtuse!

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The steroid era and PEDs are the third rail of baseball discussion. We all have our feelings, opinions and views but in the end they all mean nothing. Is it opening day yet?

 

[brett05]

The steroid era and PEDs are the third rail of baseball discussion. We all have our feelings, opinions and views but in the end they all mean nothing. Is it opening day yet?

92 days and counting

 

[SilenceS]

My head hurts. People take a game so serious. Rose should be in without a doubt. His actions doesnt take away from his performance. Also, if you think he is the only guy who bet on baseball. I got a bridge to sell you. There are gamblers that are in the Hall. There are guys who took roids in the Hall that will never admit it.

Also, do people think today's game is clean? Its not. They go about it a different way. I know 2 major league ball players. Players are always going to look for the competitive edge. They are going to do anything to secure their future and dont think teams have a blind eye to this. I was told the minors is where they really will push it if they decide to do it.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I KNEW someone would say this!

I refuse to believe you can't think better than that.

This in NO WAY compared betting on baseball to murder. It compared two situations with two VERY DIFFERENT crimes/transgressions, and asked why should one be met with its prescribed punishment and the other not.

I did not suggest life in prison for betting on baseball.

You can not be that obtuse!

No. I got the gist of it. Murder = betting on baseball. The gold standard of baseball is 3,000 hits. The man has 4, 256. How long has this been going on? Long enough. Even many murderers have the opportunity for parole.

 

[brett05]

I am not denying anything. But SilenceS you seem to be.

The rules say and are everywhere about gambling. Same with the punishment of a lifetime ban. Rose was not only caught, but then proceeded to lie about it continually.

He gets to go in, but he gives up the honor of it being done while he is alive. It's the integrity of the game. Some here and elsewhere will say he bet on his own team. That doesn't make it better. He is placing his wager ahead of the team and that is wrong.

Love what Pete did. Hate that he gambled on baseball.