2015 Cubs Offseason Discussion

[TC in Mississippi]

All the more reason why he'd be a part time player for the Cubs. I guess I don't understand why him being the 4th OF would be a problem for anyone. Having a guy that plays part time for you but could start on other teams seems to be a valuable asset, and that valuable asset would come over for a guy who you have no place for whatsoever. Jackson doesn't figure in the rotation mix, has no bullpen track record to speak of and said bullpen is fairly loaded as it is. Seems like a no brainer deal to me. The only question mark is that different outlets are reporting different players for Jackson. Most say Bourn but some say Swisher. If it's Swisher you don't do it, it it's Bourn it's easy.

 

[chibears55]

I get it but in the Cubs case it's the difference between eating Jackson's contract, or most of it, and swapping it an even deal for Bourn which is a total gain of $5.5 million in salary or $2.25 million a year. That's a better price than you're going to find a lesser 4th outfielder for. I don't think they make that move to supplant Alcantara in CF so he's more likely a platoon player who gives speed options on the base paths. Cleveland wants an innings eater in Jackson and are counting on him coming back closer to his career numbers and they don't want Bourn on the team. I think that deal gets done.

I guess the one thing that could happen is that Baez goes in a trade, Bourn plays CF and Alcantara moves back to second at least until Russell comes up which is starting to look like it'll be earlier than most thought.

Not sure im willing to trade baez to get bourne and alcantara in the every day lineup..

Id much rather trade off jackson for a couple low end minor guys..

I want a good every day LFer

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I don't think they're going to get that left fielder until a few things fall into place so the best you're going to do is have a platoon with Coghlan. First they have to figure out who's going to stick and where. If you start to buy into the "can't miss" guys being Bryant, Schwarber and Russell, which I do, then out of that bunch you have two potential left fielders in Bryant and Schwarber. Say they go out and sign Martin and Schwarber hits the cover off the ball again in 2015 starting in AA and quickly moving to AAA. Well then he's not a catcher anymore and you need that left handed pop in the lineup sooner rather than later. Or maybe they don't get Martin, Schwarber stays down on the farm all year to learn to catch and comes up in 2016. At the same time Baez turns a corner and solidifies himself at 2nd. Now Russell is ready to come up in June and Castro is hitting lights out. In that case either he or Russell go to third and Bryant moves to left. I guess what I'm saying is that the most likely scenario is that you already have your LF of the future but you don't know who he is yet. You're just not going to position block him before everything shakes out.

 

[TL1961]

Bourn wouldn't be a 4th OF though. You're not paying someone over $10 mil to be a bench player even if it's a bad contract swap. Also, I don't see why someone would want him to be a 4th OFer. His "bad" last two seasons has him hitting .257/.314/.360 and .263/.316/.360. That's really not that bad. That's basically what Emilio Bonifacio gave you. It's a better OBP than Sweeney, Lake, Alcantara and Schierholtz all who saw playing time for the cubs.

It isn't better than Coghlan, who is what I am considering our 3rd OF. Soler has to start. No way they bring in a guy to sit Soler, we all know that.

In my opinion, the same is true at this point for Alcantara. Not that he has proven anything. He hasn't - good OR bad. But I absolutely don't want to see us bring in a so-so guy at $10 million a year so we can sit the prospects we waited to see.

Alcantara playing a full season certainly has a good chance to give you .257/.317/.360, and he's not on the downside. And he's every bit as fast and as good defensively at this stage.

It would be insane to bring in Bourne to sit Mendy or Soler.

And while Coghlan is not lighting the world on fire, he's better than Bourne, isn't he? Defensively he's a little scary, but he will hit better.

 

[chibears55]

Just throwing this out there for thoughts. .

Say the cubs do get martin, does that make castillo trade bait ?

If so, maybe use him as part of a deal for cole hamel, maybe even add Alcantara .. Utley (36) final year...

 

[CSF77]

Maybe

 

[CSF77]

The big question is it worth giving up a few prospects to save 50 mil.

 

[JZsportsfan]

Just throwing this out there for thoughts. .

Say the cubs do get martin, does that make castillo trade bait ?

If so, maybe use him as part of a deal for cole hamel, maybe even add Alcantara .. Utley (36) final year...

That doesn't sound like something the Phillies would do. The Cubs would have to throw in at least 1 of the top 3 prospects and then some

 

[TL1961]

The thought of trading Baez right now is insane.

People are overreacting to strikeouts in his first stint in the majors. I admit, I was happy the season ended when it did just so I wouldn't see more strikeouts.

But the idea that he should be traded is silly.

 

[DewsSox79]

Just throwing this out there for thoughts. .

Say the cubs do get martin, does that make castillo trade bait ?

If so, maybe use him as part of a deal for cole hamel, maybe even add Alcantara .. Utley (36) final year...

ummm that doesnt get it done sir.


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[DewsSox79]

lol that castillo and alcantara can land hamels


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[DewsSox79]

That doesn't sound like something the Phillies would do. The Cubs would have to throw in at least 1 of the top 3 prospects and then some

finally


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[chibears55]

ummm that doesnt get it done sir.


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Ummm said part of a deal, didn't say just them..

Put your glasses on and reread what it says..
You wont see anything close to just trade castillo and Alcantara for Hamels

 

[SilenceS]

The thought of trading Baez right now is insane.

People are overreacting to strikeouts in his first stint in the majors. I admit, I was happy the season ended when it did just so I wouldn't see more strikeouts.

But the idea that he should be traded is silly.

Baseball is a lost art to fans. They expect it now! I go back to this but Bryce Harper, Mike Trout and the internet has put so much on these kids now a days. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports. You have guys throwing a ball that comes to within a blink of an eye then have to adjust to breaking pitches, changeups, and location. Baez is a 21 year old kid that was never supposed to be this hyped. Why did he get this hyped? Because he has succeeded at every level people thought he would fail. He is a worker. Could he fail? Absolutely, but to trade off a once in a generation type talent because his 200 bat sample is humorous. Its funny because Im called a Baez fanboy which to an extent I am, but as a fanboy, I expected everything that happened when he came to the majors. I thought his average would be a little bit higher but I expected the K's and the homers. I truly thought he would strike out close to the percentage he did. Ive watched so much of him and its like a switch with him. He will look terrible for weeks and then all the sudden it clicks and he just destroys the ball. Its like Soler. How many Cubs fan wrote him off this year before he came back from injury? I stayed the course that this guy has all the tools and ability to be the safest prospect. Relax. Baseball is a game of adjustments and patience. There is a reason that players at 27 all of a sudden become great. They have to learn. Baez has once in a generation bat speed. He has a tremendous work ethic and he is cocky. To me, Im going to give that guy a lot of chances because if he puts it together you are talking a superstar. Not a borderline all star. A superstar. I would much rather see what he can do over trading him for a knee jerk reaction. Time will tell, but now a days, patience is a lost art.

 

[SilenceS]

People are getting crazy with this FA. Do i think the Cubs will sign a TOR pitcher? Yes. Do I think they will sign a mid tier pitcher? Yes. Do they sign an OF? I dont think so, well I do think so but not in the same way yall think. I think Coughlan will be the starter and they will pair him with a righty to platoon. Coughlan gave the around the same production as Nick Markakis last year. Why would the Cubs sign an OF when they have so many prospects ready or close to ready? Its not that I dont think they will fail. Its because the Cubs had this plan for 3 plus years. They are going to see who stick and who doesnt. To bring in a big time FA OF to block a spot for years before finding out what they have with these highly touted prospects is borderline insane. Its like you just said **** the past 3 years because we have Joe Maddon. I fully expect us to run out the same team position wise next year. It makes no sense not to in my opinion. I also dont want to sign Martin. I dont trust 30 year old catchers for the price and years he will demand.

 

[CSF77]

People are getting crazy with this FA. Do i think the Cubs will sign a TOR pitcher? Yes. Do I think they will sign a mid tier pitcher? Yes. Do they sign an OF? I dont think so, well I do think so but not in the same way yall think. I think Coughlan will be the starter and they will pair him with a righty to platoon. Coughlan gave the around the same production as Nick Markakis last year. Why would the Cubs sign an OF when they have so many prospects ready or close to ready? Its not that I dont think they will fail. Its because the Cubs had this plan for 3 plus years. They are going to see who stick and who doesnt. To bring in a big time FA OF to block a spot for years before finding out what they have with these highly touted prospects is borderline insane. Its like you just said **** the past 3 years because we have Joe Maddon. I fully expect us to run out the same team position wise next year. It makes no sense not to in my opinion. I also dont want to sign Martin. I dont trust 30 year old catchers for the price and years he will demand.

Agree with the OF. Catcher #6 ranked vs #92 ranked. Castillo fell off the table last year as he was ranked #1 on D WAR and Martin was #2 in 2013. 2014 Martin was still ranked #2 and Castillo fell to #12.

Article that goes into this: http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cub...in-makes-sense-for-cubs?ex_cid=espnapi_public

"And while Castillo led all catchers in defensive WAR in 2013 -- just ahead of Martin -- he dropped to 12th this past season. Additionally, Castillo isn’t known for some of the more nuanced parts of the game, including calling pitches, pitch framing and simply having the best feel for what’s needed at that position. At one time he looked like an up-and-comer, but he’ll be 28 in April and has yet to have any kind of a breakout to his career. He’s not bad -- he’s just not Joe Maddon-type of dynamic. Martin might have that quality, as Pirates pitchers swore by him last season. To be fair, Cubs pitcher Kyle Hendricks emerged last year mostly working with Castillo, but, simply put, Martin is a better player and brings more to the table. "

If they come out of this with Lester, Martin and they trade Jackson for Bourn this off season would be good.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

When it comes to Schwarber i could see the Cubs playing the long game with him and having him be the full time catcher in 3-4 years. Before then he could be our backup catcher and get his at bats playing 1B, LF and RF. Remember that Maddon led the league in different lineups in most seasons he has managed, he is good at moving guys around, and Alcantara/Schwarber could get 450 at bats by doing this.

Then hopefully in 3-4 years Schwarber has enough experience at catcher to play there full time. Which is why I am hoping for a Martin 3 years deal with 1-2 years added as team options.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

When it comes to Schwarber i could see the Cubs playing the long game with him and having him be the full time catcher in 3-4 years. Before then he could be our backup catcher and get his at bats playing 1B, LF and RF. Remember that Maddon led the league in different lineups in most seasons he has managed, he is good at moving guys around, and Alcantara/Schwarber could get 450 at bats by doing this.

Then hopefully in 3-4 years Schwarber has enough experience at catcher to play there full time. Which is why I am hoping for a Martin 3 years deal with 1-2 years added as team options.

See and about the only reason I'm half hoping for a Martin signing is to end the experiment of Schwarber as catcher. No one but Schwarber really thinks he's a catcher and while I admire the Cubs brass for letting the kid try he's an elite bat and he's needed in the line up every day by next spring. Almost everyone thinks that he could hit in the majors tomorrow and adding a left handed slugger in the middle of a right handed slugging lineup is the stuff of legendary teams.

 

[Boobaby1]

lol that castillo and alcantara can land hamels


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Considering that the Cubs would have to pay for Hamels salary too, I would expect something in the Baez/Almora/Edwards range, or Castro/Almora/Johnson, which would get some reciprocating talk.

Not that this scenario would ever hold much water, but if I/we had Hamels, and wanted to free up some salary plus go younger, this is how I would probably start it because I ain't winning anytime soon with him.

 

[Boobaby1]

See and about the only reason I'm half hoping for a Martin signing is to end the experiment of Schwarber as catcher. No one but Schwarber really thinks he's a catcher and while I admire the Cubs brass for letting the kid try he's an elite bat and he's needed in the line up every day by next spring. Almost everyone thinks that he could hit in the majors tomorrow and adding a left handed slugger in the middle of a right handed slugging lineup is the stuff of legendary teams.

Before we anoint Schwarber to joining the Cubs anytime soon, let's see how he translates in AA and AAA as the pitching gets much, much tougher. Not saying he won't make it or could be an elite hitter, just saying to temper the thoughts regarding his skills until further evidence is revealed.