2015 Spring Training Thread

[CSF77]

Alcantara not starting. ..

Baez gonna be in that 9 hole

Maybe but I was thinking Alcantara would play every day but a different position as he went. LF/3B/2B/SS etc. Those 4 are 4 days a week to give guys days off. But I could see Baez in that role also but what kills it is his lack of OBA which is what that line up build is pushing for. I would rather have Coghland on the other days. Eventually I see the line up as:

Fowler CF
Soler RF
Rizzo 1B
Bryant LF
Castro SS
Montero C
Baez 2B
Pitcher
Alcantara 3B

Swap Olt and Baez as they go. I see little value with having those 2 in the line up at the same time as they are very prone to S/O's.

 

[TL1961]

Bryant already has 2 singles and a double today against the Rockies and still in the 3rd inning. :bizarro:

Edit to add: Bryant now 4 -4 .... in the 4th!!!!

It's spring training. It doesn't count.

 

[beckdawg]

Alcantara not starting. ..

Baez gonna be in that 9 hole

I'd honestly rather they sent Baez to AAA. Alcantara has hit .275/.333/.475 over 40 ABs in ST after hitting .324/.395/.544 over 68 ABs in the DWL. Comparatively, Baez has hit .188/.235/.250 in 48 ST ABs and .233/.306/.442 over 43 PWL ABs. My personal feelings on Baez set aside, at some point you have to earn it. I know some have argued he's in a bit of a tweener stage being too good for AAA but not ready for MLB. My argument would be how exactly does it hurt him to go down to AAA for a month and possibly crush it? Presumably, if that were to happen you could talk about calling him up with Bryant which clearly take a lot of the spotlight off him not to mention you have to imagine after he's been pressing some in ST that if he were to crush AAA pitching it would give him a bit of a confidence boost. Alternatively, there's the additional possibility that I've gone to great lengths to point out that he's a long ways from ready. If that's the case he probably doesn't crush AAA and needs to be there regardless.

It's not like Baez is 25 here. I honestly didn't understand the rush of some to promote him last year and frankly still don't see why so many are in a rush for him to be in the majors to start this season. I don't have any hard facts at my finger tips here but anecdotally it sure seems like the players who bust the most often are the ones rushed to the majors rather than those who force a teams hand a la what Bryant is doing. I'm sure some will bring up the fact he played well for ~2 months prior to the call up last season. Those two months(june/july) are 212 ABs which is hardly what I'd describe as someone forcing your hand as he was good but not *great* those two months with a triple slash of .288/.345/.565. Bryant in 32 more AB had a triple slash of .295/.418/.619 for example. Perhaps that's an unfair comp. If we use Alcantara who had ~120 more ABs last season he triple slashed .307/.353/.537. I'll also note that at the time they didn't want to call Alcantara up but Barney went down with an injury and possibly someone else I forget but anyways that's why Alcantara was called up and once up he hit .253/.337/.427 in July which lead them to keeping him up the rest of the season. Obviously he plummeted after that but the point here being Alcantara arguably "wasn't ready" which is why Baez's call up never made sense to me as by most measures Alcantara was farther along and still wasn't considered ready.

The other aspect of this that bothers me is people are so in a rush for Bryant and seemingly Baez as well that good prospects are becoming after thoughts. Before a strong ST people were ready to give Olt away for the first bag of balls anyone would offer. He wasn't "just some guy." He was BA's #22 prospect in 2012 and #43 in 2011. Admittedly, his 2013 was a train wreck which is why he was available in a trade but it's not like there wasn't a legitimate reason for this. He was hurt. Last year in the majors was obviously not great either but he hit .302/.348/.585 in 115 PAs in AAA after being sent down and he played well in a short stint to end the season. Also we're talking about a guy who has 298 major league PAs which is a grand total of 69 more than Baez has. As for Alcantara, he's long been overshadowed by players with more star power(Jackson/Vitters early, Baez et al presently) but again he's not just "another guy." BA ranked him #33 in their midseason list last season as well as #100 after 2013.

In both cases, they are older than Bryant and Baez. So, what exactly is the harm in giving them half a season? Baez clearly has a lot to work on and after another 2-3 months in the minors if he's crushing it then fine make a judgement call. Bryant obviously is hard to argue needs more seasoning but there is a case to be made about moving him to LF which another 2-3 months working on his defense wouldn't kill him. Additionally, what if they stick Alcantara out at 2B and he is the next Ian Kinsler(hopefully less injury prone)? Kinsler had a 4.8 fWAR 2008 at 26, a 4.5 fWAR 2009 at 27, a 3.3 fWAR 2010 at 28 and a 7.2 fWAR in 2011 at 29. That's a pretty fucking good prime despite his injuries. Kinsler is a career .273/.344/.449 hitter who's basically been a 20-30 HR/20-30 SB guy with above average defense at 2B. Mendy has hit .284/.337/.437 in 2214 minor league PAs, with 104 HRs(roughly 30.5 over 650 PAs in a "season") with 112 SBs(roughly 33 a "season"). That's clearly an upside on him but the point is he does have the skill set to accomplish this and people seemingly want him to be a super-platoon guy which seems crazy to me. As for Olt, what if he's Mark Reynolds with good defense? I've outlined this probably already in this topic but that's roughly a 3-4 fWAR player of which there were a grand total of 70 hitters last year who fit that.

Regardless, I'm not saying either of these players is a lock to be that but I sure as hell want to know one way or another especially in the case of Baez who's not hit shit since last July where as both Olt and Alcantara have shown improvement. Maybe it's meaningless improvement in minor-ish/spring training but what more could you ask them to do? I think at this point they've earned the shot and aren't just being handed it. If they suck you still have the option of Bryant/Baez in the minors. If they are great you suddenly have more pieces than you know what to do with.

 

[Boobaby1]

Good points.

Also, there is nothing wrong with Baez going down and hopefully raking in AAA. Even for a few months. I mean, what's wrong with him hopefully building his stats and showing improvement down there? If anything, wouldn't that build his value back up?

If he struggles mightily again in Chicago, his trade value is going to be squat.

People should know that all prospects are not going to make it. I think because his name is Javier Baez with elite bat speed, that they want to turn a deaf ear or not accept that he could POSSIBLY be one of them.

Hey! There are much worse things that could happen, and this is exactly why this FO has put the time in to getting an abundance of positional players in the system for this very reason.

Even Mike Olt was a throw-in for Texas. If I can have Grimm, Edwards, Olt, and Ramirez for a pitcher I was going to lose anyways, I will take it. There stands a good chance that these guys (even if Olt is a UI) will be making the league minimum for the Cubs which is 11 million per year less than they were paying for Garza.

The fact that they could have these guys on the team, and take that excess money and apply it somewhere else where it is needed is how you do good business, and stay there.

 

[JosMin]

Beck makes some interesting points -- personally, I'm conducting the train that Baez really needs to ride the escalator back down and spend some time in AAA working on things. 17Ks to just 3 walks isn't getting it done, shitty batting average aside. He's still looked lost at times. As many others have mentioned, he's still 22, so it's not like we're taking a look at a guy that's 27 with 1500 PAs in the majors that still can't seem to string things together. There's still a lot to love about Baez. The Dan Uggla prime ceiling is still a very real thing.... but his fall off seasons are also a very real thing. I'm in agreement that it makes most sense to give him at least 100 more ABs in AAA, almost an extended spring training, to see if any improvements can be made.

That's the nice thing about the Cubs crop of position players -- it gives them some flexibility while they figure things out. Denorfia being injured has been a nice showcase for Szczur, who seems to be a competent fourth outfielder/late inning defensive sub type guy. I wouldn't mind seeing him rotate time with Coghlan in left. Mike Olt and Junior Lake have also shown a bit more discipline this spring, which are obviously welcomed imporvements. I think those are two guys who can certainly be place holders while the Cubs figure things out with Bryant and Baez, respectively. And we still have Alcantara.... guys, we have an embarrassment of riches. How many younger squads can say they have this many position player options going into April? Still think this is how the roster is going to shake down on Opening Day --

CF Fowler
LF Coglhan
SS Castro
1B Rizzo
RF Soler
C Montero
3B Olt
2B Alcantara
P Our Lord and Saviour Jon Lester <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

I'm actually liking our bench depth more and more.... LaStella and Lake provide position versatility. Szczur, IMO, deserves a shot as a 4th/5th outfielder with Denorfia. We all know the intangibles Ross brings to the table, and we still have the whole Castillo dynamic looming. Not to mention sorting out the back end of the rotation. Needless to say, we still have plenty of questions to answer as the roster shrinks down to 25.

And fucking ****, people..... 7 days left <3

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Maddon has said Baez needs to be in the majors so he could get better at not swinging at bad pitches, which he won't be able to work on at AAA, as those pitchers aren't as accurate or as strategic at attacking weaknesses. He can only work on the pitch selection issue in the majors, and that could improve his average between 50-80 points if that happens.

 

[SilenceS]

Alcantara has struck out 15 times in 40 at bats. Baez has struck out 17 times in 48 at bats. Alcantara has 4 walks. Baez has 3. Baez has shown he is an all around ball player. From his base running to his fielding. Alcantara has the same problems as Baez but perception outweighs the reality. Now, Olt has struck out 15 times in 40 at bats but has walked 8 times. They both have a higher strikeout rate but people ignore it and focus on Baez. BA means nothing right now in the small sample size. Baez goes 4 for 4 in a game. His BA goes up to .250. ITs why almost no one cares about BA during this time. Baez has looked foolish in some at bats. He has hit the ball hard in a good number for outs. That will even out. If Maddon wants him on the team, who are any of us to question him? He has a pretty extensive track record of knowing how to nurture the young kids. If he feels it is best for Baez, I am more inclined to believe him. Make no mistake about it. Maddon is the one who wants Baez as his opening day starter. Its not Theo and them. Its Maddon.

 

[SilenceS]

It's spring training. It doesn't count.

That is 100% accurate.

 

[SilenceS]

Does WGN not play sports outside the Chicago area? I have MLB package so I havent watched a WGN broadcast in forever, but I just looked at WGN and its says WGNAD and it has no Cubs on today when I know they play at 3 on WGN. Anybody know the deal?

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Does WGN not play sports outside the Chicago area? I have MLB package so I havent watched a WGN broadcast in forever, but I just looked at WGN and its says WGNAD and it has no Cubs on today when I know they play at 3 on WGN. Anybody know the deal?

Nope. They eliminated all sports on the Superstation last fall.

 

[SilenceS]

Nope. They eliminated all sports on the Superstation last fall.

That is so stupid

 

[CSF77]

Beck makes some interesting points -- personally, I'm conducting the train that Baez really needs to ride the escalator back down and spend some time in AAA working on things. 17Ks to just 3 walks isn't getting it done, shitty batting average aside. He's still looked lost at times. As many others have mentioned, he's still 22, so it's not like we're taking a look at a guy that's 27 with 1500 PAs in the majors that still can't seem to string things together. There's still a lot to love about Baez. The Dan Uggla prime ceiling is still a very real thing.... but his fall off seasons are also a very real thing. I'm in agreement that it makes most sense to give him at least 100 more ABs in AAA, almost an extended spring training, to see if any improvements can be made.

That's the nice thing about the Cubs crop of position players -- it gives them some flexibility while they figure things out. Denorfia being injured has been a nice showcase for Szczur, who seems to be a competent fourth outfielder/late inning defensive sub type guy. I wouldn't mind seeing him rotate time with Coghlan in left. Mike Olt and Junior Lake have also shown a bit more discipline this spring, which are obviously welcomed imporvements. I think those are two guys who can certainly be place holders while the Cubs figure things out with Bryant and Baez, respectively. And we still have Alcantara.... guys, we have an embarrassment of riches. How many younger squads can say they have this many position player options going into April? Still think this is how the roster is going to shake down on Opening Day --

CF Fowler
LF Coglhan
SS Castro
1B Rizzo
RF Soler
C Montero
3B Olt
2B Alcantara
P Our Lord and Saviour Jon Lester <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

I'm actually liking our bench depth more and more.... LaStella and Lake provide position versatility. Szczur, IMO, deserves a shot as a 4th/5th outfielder with Denorfia. We all know the intangibles Ross brings to the table, and we still have the whole Castillo dynamic looming. Not to mention sorting out the back end of the rotation. Needless to say, we still have plenty of questions to answer as the roster shrinks down to 25.

And fucking ****, people..... 7 days left <3

The way Maddon has been talking it sounds like:

Fowler
Soler
Rizzo
Castro
Montero
Olt
Coghlan
Lester
Alcantara

He has been pushing for the pitcher hitting #8. I like that Soler would get more AB's hitting #2 and he would have 2 ahead of him.

 

[CSF77]

I'd honestly rather they sent Baez to AAA. Alcantara has hit .275/.333/.475 over 40 ABs in ST after hitting .324/.395/.544 over 68 ABs in the DWL. Comparatively, Baez has hit .188/.235/.250 in 48 ST ABs and .233/.306/.442 over 43 PWL ABs. My personal feelings on Baez set aside, at some point you have to earn it. I know some have argued he's in a bit of a tweener stage being too good for AAA but not ready for MLB. My argument would be how exactly does it hurt him to go down to AAA for a month and possibly crush it? Presumably, if that were to happen you could talk about calling him up with Bryant which clearly take a lot of the spotlight off him not to mention you have to imagine after he's been pressing some in ST that if he were to crush AAA pitching it would give him a bit of a confidence boost. Alternatively, there's the additional possibility that I've gone to great lengths to point out that he's a long ways from ready. If that's the case he probably doesn't crush AAA and needs to be there regardless.

It's not like Baez is 25 here. I honestly didn't understand the rush of some to promote him last year and frankly still don't see why so many are in a rush for him to be in the majors to start this season. I don't have any hard facts at my finger tips here but anecdotally it sure seems like the players who bust the most often are the ones rushed to the majors rather than those who force a teams hand a la what Bryant is doing. I'm sure some will bring up the fact he played well for ~2 months prior to the call up last season. Those two months(june/july) are 212 ABs which is hardly what I'd describe as someone forcing your hand as he was good but not *great* those two months with a triple slash of .288/.345/.565. Bryant in 32 more AB had a triple slash of .295/.418/.619 for example. Perhaps that's an unfair comp. If we use Alcantara who had ~120 more ABs last season he triple slashed .307/.353/.537. I'll also note that at the time they didn't want to call Alcantara up but Barney went down with an injury and possibly someone else I forget but anyways that's why Alcantara was called up and once up he hit .253/.337/.427 in July which lead them to keeping him up the rest of the season. Obviously he plummeted after that but the point here being Alcantara arguably "wasn't ready" which is why Baez's call up never made sense to me as by most measures Alcantara was farther along and still wasn't considered ready.

The other aspect of this that bothers me is people are so in a rush for Bryant and seemingly Baez as well that good prospects are becoming after thoughts. Before a strong ST people were ready to give Olt away for the first bag of balls anyone would offer. He wasn't "just some guy." He was BA's #22 prospect in 2012 and #43 in 2011. Admittedly, his 2013 was a train wreck which is why he was available in a trade but it's not like there wasn't a legitimate reason for this. He was hurt. Last year in the majors was obviously not great either but he hit .302/.348/.585 in 115 PAs in AAA after being sent down and he played well in a short stint to end the season. Also we're talking about a guy who has 298 major league PAs which is a grand total of 69 more than Baez has. As for Alcantara, he's long been overshadowed by players with more star power(Jackson/Vitters early, Baez et al presently) but again he's not just "another guy." BA ranked him #33 in their midseason list last season as well as #100 after 2013.

In both cases, they are older than Bryant and Baez. So, what exactly is the harm in giving them half a season? Baez clearly has a lot to work on and after another 2-3 months in the minors if he's crushing it then fine make a judgement call. Bryant obviously is hard to argue needs more seasoning but there is a case to be made about moving him to LF which another 2-3 months working on his defense wouldn't kill him. Additionally, what if they stick Alcantara out at 2B and he is the next Ian Kinsler(hopefully less injury prone)? Kinsler had a 4.8 fWAR 2008 at 26, a 4.5 fWAR 2009 at 27, a 3.3 fWAR 2010 at 28 and a 7.2 fWAR in 2011 at 29. That's a pretty fucking good prime despite his injuries. Kinsler is a career .273/.344/.449 hitter who's basically been a 20-30 HR/20-30 SB guy with above average defense at 2B. Mendy has hit .284/.337/.437 in 2214 minor league PAs, with 104 HRs(roughly 30.5 over 650 PAs in a "season") with 112 SBs(roughly 33 a "season"). That's clearly an upside on him but the point is he does have the skill set to accomplish this and people seemingly want him to be a super-platoon guy which seems crazy to me. As for Olt, what if he's Mark Reynolds with good defense? I've outlined this probably already in this topic but that's roughly a 3-4 fWAR player of which there were a grand total of 70 hitters last year who fit that.

Regardless, I'm not saying either of these players is a lock to be that but I sure as hell want to know one way or another especially in the case of Baez who's not hit shit since last July where as both Olt and Alcantara have shown improvement. Maybe it's meaningless improvement in minor-ish/spring training but what more could you ask them to do? I think at this point they've earned the shot and aren't just being handed it. If they suck you still have the option of Bryant/Baez in the minors. If they are great you suddenly have more pieces than you know what to do with.

The key here is they player should earn the job vs being entitled to it. Baez has not earned it yet.

 

[SilenceS]

The key here is they player should earn the job vs being entitled to it. Baez has not earned it yet.

If he makes the team, Maddon thinks he did.

 

[chibears55]

Baez has nothing more to prove in AAA. ...
He only gonna be put in same situation even if h e rocks in AAA for a month or two and that learning to adjust to major league pitching. ..

Besides. .

Maddon already said he values the other stuff Baez does more then what he does with the bat...

Not saying Baez is Sandberg but Ryno came up and went 1 for 30 and batted between .220 and .240 until late june before he got it together. ..

I think maddon on course with having the kid focus more on excelling with his glove and other parts of his game and not pressing so much with the bat...
He gonna learn in majors, when he looks lost he will be given a game or two off to regain focus...
From what i hear, the kid is very coachable , baseball smart, and willing to learn...

 

[SilenceS]

Baez has nothing more to prove in AAA. ...
He only gonna be put in same situation even if h e rocks in AAA for a month or two and that learning to adjust to major league pitching. ..

Besides. .

Maddon already said he values the other stuff Baez does more then what he does with the bat...

Not saying Baez is Sandberg but Ryno came up and went 1 for 30 and batted between .220 and .240 until late june before he got it together. ..

I think maddon on course with having the kid focus more on excelling with his glove and other parts of his game and not pressing so much with the bat...
He gonna learn in majors, when he looks lost he will be given a game or two off to regain focus...
From what i hear, the kid is very coachable , baseball smart, and willing to learn...

He has shown up every morning at 5:45 in the AM to work in the cage. Maddon loves his work ethic.

 

[chibears55]

Today Lineup on TV. .. we get to watch Jackson get rocked again..
no Soler Rizzo or Castro .. glad to see Bryant Russell Alcantara and Baez...

Hope they hit and were not stuck watching them get blown away

La Stella 3B

Russell SS

Montero C

Bryant LF

Sweeney RF

Baez 2B

Baxter 1B

Jackson P

Alcantara CF

 

[Bear Pride]

Today Lineup on TV. .. we get to watch Jackson get rocked again..
no Soler Rizzo or Castro .. glad to see Bryant Russell Alcantara and Baez...

Hope they hit and were not stuck watching them get blown away

La Stella 3B

Russell SS

Montero C

Bryant LF

Sweeney RF

Baez 2B

Baxter 1B

Jackson P

Alcantara CF

I like Russell in the 2 spot.

 

[Bear Pride]

Nice game to watch today.... get to see Russell at SS and batting #2, Baez at 2B, Bryant in LF. EJ is pitching, but looks OK so far. Montero already with a HR today, nice to see him get going a little. :yep:

 

[chibears55]

Nice game to watch today.... get to see Russell at SS and batting #2, Baez at 2B, Bryant in LF. EJ is pitching, but looks OK so far. Montero already with a HR today, nice to see him get going a little. :yep:

Yea.. looking forward to weds or thurs. when Maddon puts his lineup together for a couple games to get ready for opening day