2016 position players

[Shawon0Meter]

Injury prone Soler can be expendable

 

[TL1961]

Well the jury is definitely still out on Soler for me.

I worry a ton that he won't stay healthy enough, especially as he gets bigger. I am looking at an all around player, and Heyward runs well, has a good OBP, and is striking out less than 100 times per year. He also had a horrible start to the season like Fowler. If I had my choice of a Cub staying there, I still think I would rather see Bryant in right field.

The questions are, where do the Cubs spend their money, and who is the best trading chip right now? For me, it is Soler with his meager contract and more than sample size games played.

So you want to trade Soler, with his meager salary, sign Heyward, who will get $20 million per year, in an offseason in which they absolutely need to get a TOR, which will cost a ton?

Those priorities are exactly opposite of Theo/Jed's.

 

[chibears55]

So you want to trade Soler, with his meager salary, sign Heyward, who will get $20 million per year, in an offseason in which they absolutely need to get a TOR, which will cost a ton?

Those priorities are exactly opposite of Theo/Jed's.

If they trade Soler it wont be to bring in an outfielder via trade or FA, it will be for bryant to play in RF everyday. .

 

[Boobaby1]

So you want to trade Soler, with his meager salary, sign Heyward, who will get $20 million per year, in an offseason in which they absolutely need to get a TOR, which will cost a ton?

Those priorities are exactly opposite of Theo/Jed's.

They are? Since when did they ever say that they were going to pay for a TOR pitcher?

The reason you have inventory is to trade it, and the best chip right now that I see is Soler.

Do you think they could get a TOR pitcher from a team with just minor leaguers? If they did, they would have to empty the farm to do it.

Teams usually prefer to have major league ready talent, or major leaguers.

The Cubs have 82 million committed to next year, and with a lot of rookies making the league minimum, it decreases substantially as players come off of their contracts in the years following.

Sure there are going to be some Arb eligible players like Arrieta (if they don't extend him first), but there are also a lot of players that they don't need to bring back and can fill in with in-house options.

Wada, Motte and Denorfia is 11.5 million right there, and can easily be filled. If they don't bring back Wood, and/or trade out Castro, that is even more money off the books. And lets not forget that this is the Cubs we are talking about in a large market with oodles of ways to make boatloads of money.

If you look around the league at teams like Detroit, Frisco, both LA's, the Yankees of course, Philly, and Boston, there is no reason why the Cubs should not be up with these guys in payroll. Hell, the Nationals are at 162 million and the Cubs at 120 million.

I am not saying to go out and get a ton of great players, but to get a really good one, and/or trade for one should not be out of the question for a team like the Cubs. We have the inventory to do just that.

We still have to catch the Cardinals and Pittsburgh, and simply the maturation of these kids and a TOR pitcher is probably not going to get it done considering that the Cardinals will be even better (hard to believe) with Wainright, Holliday, Grichuk, and Adams coming back.

 

[willycat]

They are? Since when did they ever say that they were going to pay for a TOR pitcher?

The reason you have inventory is to trade it, and the best chip right now that I see is Soler.

Do you think they could get a TOR pitcher from a team with just minor leaguers? If they did, they would have to empty the farm to do it.

Teams usually prefer to have major league ready talent, or major leaguers.

The Cubs have 82 million committed to next year, and with a lot of rookies making the league minimum, it decreases substantially as players come off of their contracts in the years following.

Sure there are going to be some Arb eligible players like Arrieta (if they don't extend him first), but there are also a lot of players that they don't need to bring back and can fill in with in-house options.

Wada, Motte and Denorfia is 11.5 million right there, and can easily be filled. If they don't bring back Wood, and/or trade out Castro, that is even more money off the books. And lets not forget that this is the Cubs we are talking about in a large market with oodles of ways to make boatloads of money.

If you look around the league at teams like Detroit, Frisco, both LA's, the Yankees of course, Philly, and Boston, there is no reason why the Cubs should not be up with these guys in payroll. Hell, the Nationals are at 162 million and the Cubs at 120 million.

I am not saying to go out and get a ton of great players, but to get a really good one, and/or trade for one should not be out of the question for a team like the Cubs. We have the inventory to do just that.

We still have to catch the Cardinals and Pittsburgh, and simply the maturation of these kids and a TOR pitcher is probably not going to get it done considering that the Cardinals will be even better (hard to believe) with Wainright, Holliday, Grichuk, and Adams coming back.

Thinking the Cubs are about to catch the Pirates this season and sure the Cards will have a bunch of guys coming back from injury but just maybe they won't be back to their old selves next season. Also the Cardinals big guns are not getting any younger, especially Molina who looked a bit tired yesterday. Agree with most of the guys you mentioned as expendable but I would hang onto Wood and maybe add Ross to the mix.

 

[Parade_Rain]

If the Cubs trade for a pitcher, it will be a young TOR. That could take a Soler, a Castro, a Baez, a Schwarber, etc. OTOH, they could be looking at TOR prospects in AAA, which would in turn take a lower level MLBer or AAA. In the end they need to add a vet starter and a young TOR.

 

[chibears55]

If the Cubs trade for a pitcher, it will be a young TOR. That could take a Soler, a Castro, a Baez, a Schwarber, etc. OTOH, they could be looking at TOR prospects in AAA, which would in turn take a lower level MLBer or AAA. In the end they need to add a vet starter and a young TOR.

I think they go after one of the big guns like Price via FA and then possibly a trade to upgrade over Hammel or Hendricks. .

trading Soler and or Castro could net them that upgrade..

realistically they dont need to do much this off season.
It could be as simple as...
resigning Fowler for CF..
Target Price as main FA signing..
Trade Castro and ? for SP upgrade over Hammel or Hendricks. .

Look for a LH reliever upgrade and maybe a backup C if they dont bring Ross back..

Other then that their pretty much set



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[Grizzly]

I am not saying to go out and get a ton of great players, but to get a really good one, and/or trade for one should not be out of the question for a team like the Cubs. We have the inventory to do just that.

We still have to catch the Cardinals and Pittsburgh, and simply the maturation of these kids and a TOR pitcher is probably not going to get it done considering that the Cardinals will be even better (hard to believe) with Wainright, Holliday, Grichuk, and Adams coming back.[/QUOTE]

I have a different view on a couple things. As far as inventory, I'd like to see the Cubs hold on to some inventory. I always hear everyone saying how when the Cardinals have a player go down they seem to have somebody come up and fill in without skipping a beat. IMO they do that with inventory. What if a guy like Fowler slides into 2nd a breaks a finger? It would be nice to have a Almora come up and step in for a month and a half. Or Rizzo take a fastball off the knee and misses a couple weeks? Maybe a Vogelback comes up for few and fills in. What's wrong with holding on to Castro and use him as a super sub? Fills in at 2nd, short, maybe get him some reps in the outfield or at 3rd. Guess that puts me in the camp of pay for your pitchers and grow your position players on the farm.

As far as the Cardinals coming back next year even better, I disagree.
Not sure how Grichuk with 400 MLB at bats get credit for maturation and making the Cardinals better but Soler, Bryant, Russell, Baez and Schwarber don't.
I'll take Schwarber over Holliday- Bryant over Carpenter-Russell over Peralta-Rizzo over Adams-Baez over Wong.
If you follow that up with Arrieta, Lester, and say Price I feel your looking at a Team that overtakes STL.

 

[Boobaby1]

I am not saying to go out and get a ton of great players, but to get a really good one, and/or trade for one should not be out of the question for a team like the Cubs. We have the inventory to do just that.

We still have to catch the Cardinals and Pittsburgh, and simply the maturation of these kids and a TOR pitcher is probably not going to get it done considering that the Cardinals will be even better (hard to believe) with Wainright, Holliday, Grichuk, and Adams coming back.

I have a different view on a couple things. As far as inventory, I'd like to see the Cubs hold on to some inventory. I always hear everyone saying how when the Cardinals have a player go down they seem to have somebody come up and fill in without skipping a beat. IMO they do that with inventory. What if a guy like Fowler slides into 2nd a breaks a finger? It would be nice to have a Almora come up and step in for a month and a half. Or Rizzo take a fastball off the knee and misses a couple weeks? Maybe a Vogelback comes up for few and fills in. What's wrong with holding on to Castro and use him as a super sub? Fills in at 2nd, short, maybe get him some reps in the outfield or at 3rd. Guess that puts me in the camp of pay for your pitchers and grow your position players on the farm.

As far as the Cardinals coming back next year even better, I disagree.
Not sure how Grichuk with 400 MLB at bats get credit for maturation and making the Cardinals better but Soler, Bryant, Russell, Baez and Schwarber don't.
I'll take Schwarber over Holliday- Bryant over Carpenter-Russell over Peralta-Rizzo over Adams-Baez over Wong.
If you follow that up with Arrieta, Lester, and say Price I feel your looking at a Team that overtakes STL.

Are you saying that the Cardinals won't be better with Wainright in the rotation?

They have endured a ton of injuries to key players. Holiday and Adams will be huge players, and so will Grichuk. The difference between Grichuk and Soler is that Grichuk was lobbying for ROY before he went down.

I am not sure how a rotation of Wainright, Wacha, Martinez, Garcia and either Lackey or Lynn doesn't make the team better, and not to mention, their bullpen.

The Cubs have endured injuries, but if we lost our ace, where would we be? Not to mention our top RBI producer and our top ROY candidate.

That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Grizzly]

You're kind of making my point. If we trade away the farm and some mlb talent for a pitcher and then a few injuries happen were screwed. Now if we hold on to that talent and buy a few pitchers we too can have guys to fill in for injuries.
Also, Adams isn't that great and Holliday can't make it through a full season without getting hurt anyways. :lol:

 

[CSF77]

You're kind of making my point. If we trade away the farm and some mlb talent for a pitcher and then a few injuries happen were screwed. Now if we hold on to that talent and buy a few pitchers we too can have guys to fill in for injuries.
Also, Adams isn't that great and Holliday can't make it through a full season without getting hurt anyways. :lol:

Depends on what is traded and what is gained.

I believe they will shed excess contract to create payroll space to make a run at Price. That means Wada, Wood, Turner, Motte etc gone.

Fowler offered with a expected no thank you and take the pick. Lead off with 17 HR now looks to be the top CF on the market now. I expect a creative CF solution.

The biggest issue will be to find playing time for Baez. I'm expecting him to be moved around. We have seen him at 2B, SS and 3B. No OF yet. So I don't want to go there yet. Bryant has been used in RF and CF in a pinch.

I expect that Maddon continues to move the pieces. So CF might end up commitee until Almora is ready. It would justify giving Coghlan another year on the team. He holds a decent OBA and his D is not bad. You plug Bryant in vs LH and move Baez to 3B. That would hold until Almora gets up.

The top priority is Price. Back up plan I would sign Latos and retain Turner and let them battle it out.

So I doubt they trade Soler or Castro unless they can net some one like Grey in return. At that point you just do it and sign some depth to back fill (if needed) and move Bryant to RF, Baez to 3B and LaStella leading off at 2B. CF they could then offer Jackson a 1 year to build value.

They have options.

 

[Raskolnikov]

They aren't trading Soler. Too much promise. Montero is gone. Castro is gone.

1) Russell or a CF
2) Schwarber
3) Rizzo
4) Bryant
5) Soler
6) Baez


Fill in the rest. Free agency, minors, remnants of this roster. Don't even matter. That shit is ridiculous. Hats off to Epstein.

 

[Boobaby1]

They aren't trading Soler. Too much promise. Montero is gone. Castro is gone.

1) Russell or a CF
2) Schwarber
3) Rizzo
4) Bryant
5) Soler
6) Baez


Fill in the rest. Free agency, minors, remnants of this roster. Don't even matter. That shit is ridiculous. Hats off to Epstein.

Why is Montero gone? He has caught well this year and has two years left on his contract. Do you think they are going to eat two years of his contract? Would you seriously want to go into next year with Ross and Schwarber behind the plate?

If Schwarber was the future for sure, then he would not be missing starts when Lester and Arrieta pitch, regardless if Ross is Lester's personal catcher.

Schwarber is fine in LF, and he plays good enough defense and has an accurate and strong arm.

We put up with Soriano out there for six years. Schwarber can't be worse than him defensively, and frankly, I'd like to save his legs because his bat is the key to his success. Not catching.

 

[CSF77]

Why is Montero gone? He has caught well this year and has two years left on his contract. Do you think they are going to eat two years of his contract? Would you seriously want to go into next year with Ross and Schwarber behind the plate?

If Schwarber was the future for sure, then he would not be missing starts when Lester and Arrieta pitch, regardless if Ross is Lester's personal catcher.

Schwarber is fine in LF, and he plays good enough defense and has an accurate and strong arm.

We put up with Soriano out there for six years. Schwarber can't be worse than him defensively, and frankly, I'd like to save his legs because his bat is the key to his success. Not catching.

Montero is one of the leagues best catchers. I see him being a Cub for a while. Schwarber will be eased into the role.

Soler is a dead fastball hitter. Until he starts to up his .167 BA off off speed stuff he is not as great as he seems.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Montero is one of the leagues best catchers. I see him being a Cub for a while. Schwarber will be eased into the role.

Soler is a dead fastball hitter. Until he starts to up his .167 BA off off speed stuff he is not as great as he seems.

Honestly the Cubs should be entirely focused on this year. They are good enough. If you keep Montero then all we are discussing is CF. who platoons as 4th outfielder. And coughlin may remain the guy. Move on from Castro and spend on Arrieta plus one more pitcher. Cubs have all the bats they need. If the right defensive CF is available that can bat 9th or lead off great, do it. Baez should bat 6 or 7 due to strikeouts, but that power in infield is nice.

 

[CSF77]

Honestly the Cubs should be entirely focused on this year. They are good enough. If you keep Montero then all we are discussing is CF. who platoons as 4th outfielder. And coughlin may remain the guy. Move on from Castro and spend on Arrieta plus one more pitcher. Cubs have all the bats they need. If the right defensive CF is available that can bat 9th or lead off great, do it. Baez should bat 6 or 7 due to strikeouts, but that power in infield is nice.

Lastella/Castro 2B
Schwarber LF
Bryant RF
Rizzo 1B
Baez 3B
Montero C
Jackson CF
pitcher
Russell SS

Soler traded. I'm not a fan of his D. Bryant looks just as good with less exposure and you lose nothing in arm strength.

 

[Boobaby1]

Lastella/Castro 2B
Schwarber LF
Bryant RF
Rizzo 1B
Baez 3B
Montero C
Jackson CF
pitcher
Russell SS

Soler traded. I'm not a fan of his D. Bryant looks just as good with less exposure and you lose nothing in arm strength.

And you gain a better bat in right field, and also should have an upgrade defensively if Baez goes to third base.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Their not going to platoon baez castro and russell.

They need 2 SP a TOR and most likely an upgrade over Hammel or Hendricks. ..

Money going to TOR and players will get the other
99.9% guarantee in my book

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They need TOR bad, but just one person traded as you mention; which I agree with isn't going to get it unless its one of the big 3 or an appealing package.

Castro doesn't get that in a trade. Baez may if he finishes strong.

The cubs are likely going to have to sign a top flight pitcher. Because shit they've drafted/thrown against the wall doesn't look like TOR potential. Stinnett, Zastrysny, Pierced Johnson, Underwood, and other big ones have either cooled off or just not that good. Underwood was red hot to start, now they're considering shutting him down after an MRI and a few lame duck outings. He's impressed me though.

Buy Jordan Zimmerman.

 

[DanTown]

There's still a lot of question marks with the young guys before I go trading, selling off pieces you can't easily replace like Soler.

Here's Schwarber's splits first 100 PA and the next 96
First 101: .352/.436/.625 with 6 HR / 21 RBI and only 25K vs 11BB
Next 93: .163/.229/.438 with 7 HR / 17 RBI and 34K vs 12BB

I love Kyle's bat and want him to be a catcher full-time; however, I'm not ready to say "let's keep him in the two hole because he's so good". Kyle to me projects as the perfect 5 hitter and not two hitter because he's so opposite field averse (only 23% of his hits go opposite field) and he wants to swing for power on almost every swing. It just makes no sense to me why many here want to keep Montero over Fowler because it's not a coincidence that as Fowler started getting on base at a significant rate that the offense started to come alive.

To me, the best lineup is something like

Fowler - CF
Rizzo - 1B
Bryant - LF
Schwarber - C
Soler - RF
Baez - 3B
Castro/LaStella/Coghlan - 2B
P
Russell - SS

When you look at the lineup of the future, you have to remember a few things

- Baez at 7 in front of the pitcher means he's way less likely to see fastballs and see a ton more off-speed stuff
- As "bad" as Soler has been defensively, he's a massive arm and if his bat is closer to last year than this year, you're trading a 20-85 guy who strikes out signifcantly less than Bryant/Schwarber. If you bat him behind on base guys like Rizzo/Bryant/Schwarber and ahead of Baez, he's going to see better pitches to hit.

The clear answer is the Cubs need a legit closer and a legit lefty to get lefties out. And while Price would be nice, I'd rather go after a mid-rotation arm because Arrieta/Lester is still a fairly good 1-2. If you get a guy like Price, it will impact your ability to keep a Montero or Fowler.

 

[CSF77]

There's still a lot of question marks with the young guys before I go trading, selling off pieces you can't easily replace like Soler.

Here's Schwarber's splits first 100 PA and the next 96
First 101: .352/.436/.625 with 6 HR / 21 RBI and only 25K vs 11BB
Next 93: .163/.229/.438 with 7 HR / 17 RBI and 34K vs 12BB

I love Kyle's bat and want him to be a catcher full-time; however, I'm not ready to say "let's keep him in the two hole because he's so good". Kyle to me projects as the perfect 5 hitter and not two hitter because he's so opposite field averse (only 23% of his hits go opposite field) and he wants to swing for power on almost every swing. It just makes no sense to me why many here want to keep Montero over Fowler because it's not a coincidence that as Fowler started getting on base at a significant rate that the offense started to come alive.

To me, the best lineup is something like

Fowler - CF
Rizzo - 1B
Bryant - LF
Schwarber - C
Soler - RF
Baez - 3B
Castro/LaStella/Coghlan - 2B
P
Russell - SS

When you look at the lineup of the future, you have to remember a few things

- Baez at 7 in front of the pitcher means he's way less likely to see fastballs and see a ton more off-speed stuff
- As "bad" as Soler has been defensively, he's a massive arm and if his bat is closer to last year than this year, you're trading a 20-85 guy who strikes out signifcantly less than Bryant/Schwarber. If you bat him behind on base guys like Rizzo/Bryant/Schwarber and ahead of Baez, he's going to see better pitches to hit.

The league catching up was expected. Add to it he has not even played a full year in pro ball much less played into Sept. Give the kid a break. What he is doing is unprecedented.

They need TOR bad, but just one person traded as you mention; which I agree with isn't going to get it unless its one of the big 3 or an appealing package.

Castro doesn't get that in a trade. Baez may if he finishes strong.

The cubs are likely going to have to sign a top flight pitcher. Because shit they've drafted/thrown against the wall doesn't look like TOR potential. Stinnett, Zastrysny, Pierced Johnson, Underwood, and other big ones have either cooled off or just not that good. Underwood was red hot to start, now they're considering shutting him down after an MRI and a few lame duck outings. He's impressed me though.

Buy Jordan Zimmerman.

Here is the thing: Baez is superior at 3B to Bryant. From what we have seen he has gold glove written all over him. Not to mention this is a kid that can put up 30 HR's while hitting .300 from a prime power position. But that bumps your golden boy into the OF. LF is being reserved for Schwarber. Just to get his LH bat to balance the line up justifies it. That leaves CF and RF. I don't know about most here but I really don't feel all too great with Bryant every day at CF. So guess what...some one goes.

At the end of the day the Cubs will have glaring needs in CF and SP. There are always matches to be made. A good match would be the Red Sox. Bradley Jr and Bucholtz. Now I believe they would need a 3rd team to pull it off as the Sox really have little need for OF or another SS/2B but a team like the Mets would.

They could get creative where the Sox give up Bucholtz and Bradley Jr. Mets get Castro and Soler then the Red Sox get Niese and some youth.