2016 position players

CSF77

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I don't get this "we can't resign Fowler because Almora is so close" argument. Almora put up a fairly average year in AA this year at a so-so age of 21 so at best you'd argue that he's two years away (2017) and even then, you're trying to project a bat that doesn't have a ton of power in it and a guy who doesn't have a great walk rate to be what exactly? The Cubs are already one of the five best teams in the NL right now and this "get rid of veterans we know are good" argument doesn't sit well with me. The Cubs have needed Fowler's lead-off ability to get themselves 20 over .500 and they don't have anyone in the system who projects to replace that unless you do something drastic like move Schwarber to the lead-off spot.

I think the off-season wish list is back end bullpen arm, a #3 starter clearly better than Hammel, a lefty who gets lefties out, and then giving Schwarber another year platooning C/LF. Considering the Cubs still have another year of arbitration with Coghlan, I say be patient for a year before you start committing to what the 2017-2019 core looks like.

C - Montero, Ross
IF - Rizzo, Baez, LaStella, Castro, Russell, Bryant
OF - Coghlan, Schwarber, Soler, Fowler
Last bat: Alcantra/Sczur/Villaneuva/some cheap FA

That to me makes more sense than trading off guys who still may be good for you. Soler for Kimbrel/Ross or something sounds great but if SD doesn't bite at that, then what? What if Soler rebounds to be closer to 2013 than 2014? What if Schwarber develops a catching ability? What if Almora has peaked? This would leave Joe with a 7/8 man bullpen (if he gets a better third starter he might be more inclined to go with 7 arms) and leave the Cubs some payroll flexibility with regards to their bullpen/3rd starter options.

Basically, I get the idea about wanting to move Schwarber out of the plate but the Cubs have so many good bats/fielders they can put out there if Schwarber is catching that I think one more year to decide what's best makes sense to me. I mean the only guy who will give you more overall C is Posey, that's how good the bat is. And if you open LF for Bryant/Soler to get Baez at 3B, you theoretically improve the offense (Baez/Soler in for Monetro), you improve the 3B defense (Baez over Bryant) and you improve the RF defense (Bryant over Soler).

Almora:
2012: .321/.331/.464 SO%: 9.2% BB%: 1.4%
2013: .329/.376/.466 SO%: 12% BB%: 6.8%
2014: .270/.291/.392 SO%: 13.6% BB%: 2.8%. He fell out of favor this year. Rightfully so.
2015: .287/.323/.416 SO%: 11.6% BB%: 7.9%

So this year he bounced back. The big change was hit BB% jumping up 5% from last year. Add to it his D is top end for CF. Takes the best routes. Solid skills all around.

He has always had the highest floor of the big 4.
 

chibears55

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One, Ricketts (the family) is not nearly as rich as the Dodgers ownership group.

Two, the Dogers have a massive TV contract that gives them more money than any non Yankees team.

Three, the Dogers Chavez Ravine is so massive that even though they only sell about 85% of the tickets, they still get 46K a night (they're going to end with about 850K more people than the Cubs).

Four, the Dodgers and the Cubs are not going to devote the same amount of money to the team as the Dodgers are significantly more likely to put "extra" money into the team versus just what the revenue gives the team.

Five, the Dodgers don't have a rash of young guys they're going to have to pay in the next few years like the Cubs will have in the middle of any long term pitching contract.

Seriously, the Cubs are not going to have a 300-350 million payroll in three-four years and that's exactly what signing Price/Arrieta would mean.


1. Dont know either financial situation to determine that but the Ricketts will be raking in money in the near future when all their revenue from Wrigleville, advertising, naming rights, tv deals, etc start coming in ...

2. Cubs are about to have a massive tv deal in next couple years..

3. Cubs will be selling 100% of tickets

4. Cubs don't need to devote the same amount of money ss Dodgers..

5. The young players the Cubs may be paying is at least 5-7 yrs down the road.. by then the deals with Lester and Price will be over or close to it..

Not sure how you came up with 300-350 mil payroll in next couple yrs.. even if they gave Arrieta 25 per and the 3 starters are at 80 combined in 3 yrs which I believe would be Lester last year at 25 mil. I doubt the rest of team if their basically the same main guys as now wont total 120 mil or so..

By 2020 Cubs Payroll could comfortably be at 200 mil if necessary

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CSF77

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Like I said the Cubs need a starter, a CF and a Closer. That is where they are. They have excess depth going on and Soler is expendable. Pads have Hunter Renfro ready to replace Upton next year. Will Meyers has been injury prone but they have Rymer Liriano close. Kemp is locked in at RF. 3B might be a target area. Solarte has a career 22 HR's in close to 1000 MLB AB's. That is a liability. Cubs have Villanueva who had 20 this year alone. Add to it he has plus D at 3B.

I believe that these 2 teams could cometogether in a deal that both teams walk away from being pretty happy about.
 

DanTown

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Almora:
2012: .321/.331/.464 SO%: 9.2% BB%: 1.4%
2013: .329/.376/.466 SO%: 12% BB%: 6.8%
2014: .270/.291/.392 SO%: 13.6% BB%: 2.8%. He fell out of favor this year. Rightfully so.
2015: .287/.323/.416 SO%: 11.6% BB%: 7.9%

So this year he bounced back. The big change was hit BB% jumping up 5% from last year. Add to it his D is top end for CF. Takes the best routes. Solid skills all around.

He has always had the highest floor of the big 4.

Again, this is the problem with projections based off multiple years where you confuse his potential at 18 and don't re-evaluate after a few years. As Almora has aged, his bat hasn't really progressed (OPS has gone from .842 in 2013 to .727 this year) and while you love the lack of strikeouts, he doesn't have a ton of power or speed to augment that bat control. And while that walk rate is good for a major leaguer, it's bound to drop in the majors so if he's a guy around 5% with low power, he's a negative bat at the next level (based off his most recent seasons).

While I have always liked his glove when I've seen him in the limited times I've seen him, I don't see a home for him unless the bat comes around more than it has.

I just can't say let Fowler (the only other CF AND leadoff hitter anywhere close to MLB ready) walk based on Almora's hope. If Almora's good, you play him in LF or move Fowler later.
 

chibears55

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Again, this is the problem with projections based off multiple years where you confuse his potential at 18 and don't re-evaluate after a few years. As Almora has aged, his bat hasn't really progressed (OPS has gone from .842 in 2013 to .727 this year) and while you love the lack of strikeouts, he doesn't have a ton of power or speed to augment that bat control. And while that walk rate is good for a major leaguer, it's bound to drop in the majors so if he's a guy around 5% with low power, he's a negative bat at the next level (based off his most recent seasons).

While I have always liked his glove when I've seen him in the limited times I've seen him, I don't see a home for him unless the bat comes around more than it has.

I just can't say let Fowler (the only other CF AND leadoff hitter anywhere close to MLB ready) walk based on Almora's hope. If Almora's good, you play him in LF or move Fowler later.
Almora will be in Iowa in 2016..

Im pretty sure management dont anticipate having Almora until 2017 if they are looking at him for CF of the future. .

Austin Jackson was partially brought here for him to get a feel of playing for Cubs and maybe sign for a reasonable deal to replace Fowler if nothing can be worked out with him. .



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DJMoore_is_fat

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Like I said the Cubs need a starter, a CF and a Closer. That is where they are. They have excess depth going on and Soler is expendable. Pads have Hunter Renfro ready to replace Upton next year. Will Meyers has been injury prone but they have Rymer Liriano close. Kemp is locked in at RF. 3B might be a target area. Solarte has a career 22 HR's in close to 1000 MLB AB's. That is a liability. Cubs have Villanueva who had 20 this year alone. Add to it he has plus D at 3B.

I believe that these 2 teams could cometogether in a deal that both teams walk away from being pretty happy about.

I think signing Price, re-signing Fowler, and trading for bullpen help are the three keys to the off-season. We have an extended window to win but with Arrieta pitching like he is -- and Lester and Price both pitching at a high level, we need to go for it now.

That will give us three really good pitchers who can win you a series.

Fowler gets on-base and he has decent power. I'd sign him for 4-years and $60M. When our young guys are due up (Bryant, Russell, Schwarber, etc) for extensions - our bigger contracts will be winding down (Lester, Fowler, Montero, etc).
 

Boobaby1

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I think signing Price, re-signing Fowler, and trading for bullpen help are the three keys to the off-season. We have an extended window to win but with Arrieta pitching like he is -- and Lester and Price both pitching at a high level, we need to go for it now.

That will give us three really good pitchers who can win you a series.

Fowler gets on-base and he has decent power. I'd sign him for 4-years and $60M. When our young guys are due up (Bryant, Russell, Schwarber, etc) for extensions - our bigger contracts will be winding down (Lester, Fowler, Montero, etc).

I doubt they go after Price. Sure he is still a stud for now, but he has a lot of innings logged already, and we don't need another one a year younger than Lester and declining in a few years if not sooner.

They need to trade the inventory for a frontline starter and be done with it. You can't play all of this inventory anyways, and you have to let some of it go eventually.

I think they get their pitcher via trade this year, and maybe sign a second tier one via free agency like Latos, Chen, Garcia, Gallardo, or Estrada to round out the rotation. Something in that neighborhood.
 

CSF77

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I doubt they go after Price. Sure he is still a stud for now, but he has a lot of innings logged already, and we don't need another one a year younger than Lester and declining in a few years if not sooner.

They need to trade the inventory for a frontline starter and be done with it. You can't play all of this inventory anyways, and you have to let some of it go eventually.

I think they get their pitcher via trade this year, and maybe sign a second tier one via free agency like Latos, Chen, Garcia, Gallardo, or Estrada to round out the rotation. Something in that neighborhood.

Only a few guys out there that fall into this. Derek Holland would be a good target from the left side.

My opinion is if you are looking for a RH starter there are plenty on the market. LH there is Price and Kaz. So Holland could make sense as he is 28 still. He has a team option in 2017 and 2018.

I don't see the Rangers parting with him. But that is the type of target you are looking for. If they don't care about getting a 2nd LH into the rotation and are just looking for the best arm in general then Zimmerman is the right choice. Falls into the #3 and will not cost talent.
 

Boobaby1

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Only a few guys out there that fall into this. Derek Holland would be a good target from the left side.

My opinion is if you are looking for a RH starter there are plenty on the market. LH there is Price and Kaz. So Holland could make sense as he is 28 still. He has a team option in 2017 and 2018.

I don't see the Rangers parting with him. But that is the type of target you are looking for. If they don't care about getting a 2nd LH into the rotation and are just looking for the best arm in general then Zimmerman is the right choice. Falls into the #3 and will not cost talent.

Jaime Garcia fits the bill too, however he seems to be often injured which would raise a few flags.

That said, if you hold onto Hendricks as depth, along with having Johnson and Edwards in the system, then they should be just fine until others start to mature.

One particular thing I like about Garcia is he keeps the ball down, and doesn't give up the long ball, and has about a 3-1 strikeout to walk ratio.

He has an 8-5 record this year with a 2.33 ERA, and in 6 of his 16 starts, the Cardinals have scored less than 2 runs.

He might be worth a looksee.
 

TC in Mississippi

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I think signing Price, re-signing Fowler, and trading for bullpen help are the three keys to the off-season. We have an extended window to win but with Arrieta pitching like he is -- and Lester and Price both pitching at a high level, we need to go for it now.

That will give us three really good pitchers who can win you a series.

Fowler gets on-base and he has decent power. I'd sign him for 4-years and $60M. When our young guys are due up (Bryant, Russell, Schwarber, etc) for extensions - our bigger contracts will be winding down (Lester, Fowler, Montero, etc).

I really doubt they sign Price, they absolutely won't sign Fowler, who will likely get closer to 4/$75 mil, but I am certain they'll get some bullpen help. For pitching I'm with the other folks here saying you trade for one and sign the other. I think they make a hard run at Kazmir and find their righty in the likes of Tyson Ross, Carlos Carrasco, Julio Teheran or somebody out of Tampa Bay's glut of pitchers. For CF I'd make a stab at signing Denard Span to a 1 year deal. He'll be looking to rebuild his value after an injury plagued FA year. He's coming off hip surgery but should be ready to go by ST. If he's a little ouchy early in the year you spell him with Szczur until he's fully healthy and can play every day. If you can't do that you look for another 1 year option. Fowler, and the other viable FA CF Gerardo Parra are going to get multi deals of 4 or 5 years $70 to $100 mil. The Cubs are making it crystal clear, at least to this point, that they're waiting on Albert Almora who's go a full in AAA ahead of him. Ian Happ is being moved to 2B in instructionals and the path to Wrigley looks clear for Almora probably in 2017. If he falters in AAA they can look for a longer term answer next year. They're going to position block him now with a guy on a 4 or 5 deal though.
 

DJMoore_is_fat

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I really doubt they sign Price, they absolutely won't sign Fowler, who will likely get closer to 4/$75 mil, but I am certain they'll get some bullpen help. For pitching I'm with the other folks here saying you trade for one and sign the other. I think they make a hard run at Kazmir and find their righty in the likes of Tyson Ross, Carlos Carrasco, Julio Teheran or somebody out of Tampa Bay's glut of pitchers. For CF I'd make a stab at signing Denard Span to a 1 year deal. He'll be looking to rebuild his value after an injury plagued FA year. He's coming off hip surgery but should be ready to go by ST. If he's a little ouchy early in the year you spell him with Szczur until he's fully healthy and can play every day. If you can't do that you look for another 1 year option. Fowler, and the other viable FA CF Gerardo Parra are going to get multi deals of 4 or 5 years $70 to $100 mil. The Cubs are making it crystal clear, at least to this point, that they're waiting on Albert Almora who's go a full in AAA ahead of him. Ian Happ is being moved to 2B in instructionals and the path to Wrigley looks clear for Almora probably in 2017. If he falters in AAA they can look for a longer term answer next year. They're going to position block him now with a guy on a 4 or 5 deal though.

Aren't you worried about Almora? I haven't seen enough of him to formulate a solid opinion but every thing I'm hearing -- it has not been a smooth path for him. If he's 21 now and still too years away from being at the major league level, it just seems like his development has been a little slow, no?
 

DJMoore_is_fat

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I doubt they go after Price. Sure he is still a stud for now, but he has a lot of innings logged already, and we don't need another one a year younger than Lester and declining in a few years if not sooner.

They need to trade the inventory for a frontline starter and be done with it. You can't play all of this inventory anyways, and you have to let some of it go eventually.

I think they get their pitcher via trade this year, and maybe sign a second tier one via free agency like Latos, Chen, Garcia, Gallardo, or Estrada to round out the rotation. Something in that neighborhood.

Which young prospects do you think we'll sell for the front line pitcher? I'd be wary of moving pretty much any of the young guys playing in the bigs right now. I really like Russell and Baez defensively at the 2B/SS positions and nobody will want Castro.

We certainly can't move Bryant or Schwarber and I think it might be too premature to move Soler. He's on an awesome contract and it's unclear what his ceiling is. But if we did have to move one of them -- probably Soler is the one I'd be most willing to part with.
 

TC in Mississippi

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Aren't you worried about Almora? I haven't seen enough of him to formulate a solid opinion but every thing I'm hearing -- it has not been a smooth path for him. If he's 21 now and still too years away from being at the major league level, it just seems like his development has been a little slow, no?

I don't think his development has been slow at all. He's 21 years old and was playing in a age appropriate level this year. He had a slow start but finished very, very strong. His final slash was .272/.327/.400 that would be good even without the slow start and he got better as he went along. The thought is that he'll get his first MLB call up next September or so at the ripe old age of 22. Not everyone is Addison Russell and really he was really called up a bit early. You're talking about this kid being 23 in his full rookie season. Kris Bryant is 23 and Kyle Schwarber is 22. There are absolutely no questions about Almora's defensive game, the only questions are whether he'll have enough in his bat to be an everyday player. Those questions should be answered in AAA. In the meantime I don't see them position blocking him with a guy on a multi year deal and the only other guy in the system who would be competition for him in CF is Ian Happ who is being moved to 2B in the instructionals this year. I think he's their guy until proven otherwise.
 

Boobaby1

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Which young prospects do you think we'll sell for the front line pitcher? I'd be wary of moving pretty much any of the young guys playing in the bigs right now. I really like Russell and Baez defensively at the 2B/SS positions and nobody will want Castro.

We certainly can't move Bryant or Schwarber and I think it might be too premature to move Soler. He's on an awesome contract and it's unclear what his ceiling is. But if we did have to move one of them -- probably Soler is the one I'd be most willing to part with.

Soler I think has the best contract and years to move that would look attractive to other teams, and if you add a McKinney, and/or Vogelbach or Villanueva, that might be an attractive haul for some team. Not to mention that Castro could be in a trade somewhere.

There are many possibilities, and so many, that it would make your head spin.

The point is, they have the goods to do it without sacrificing the parent club and I think that is what they will do. We need a good balance of age in the rotation, and until the system starts to produce it, the Cubs are going to have to go out and get someone.

Edit: And also, I do not know if they would do it or not, but IF they moved Soler, I wonder what the asking price for Josh Reddick would be as an arb 3 player to man RF? Vogelbach is blocked and needs to go to an AL team more than likely, and Beane likes to have his system full, especially when he is more than likely ready to lose a player.
 

TC in Mississippi

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Soler I think has the best contract and years to move that would look attractive to other teams, and if you add a McKinney, and/or Vogelbach or Villanueva, that might be an attractive haul for some team. Not to mention that Castro could be in a trade somewhere.

There are many possibilities, and so many, that it would make your head spin.

The point is, they have the goods to do it without sacrificing the parent club and I think that is what they will do. We need a good balance of age in the rotation, and until the system starts to produce it, the Cubs are going to have to go out and get someone.

I mean that's the thing right, the flexibility? They so many options here they can have multiple talks with multiple teams. I think they will acquire that cost controlled starter they're looking for. Maybe even Hendricks goes in that deal, or another one following it, because the kid coming back has more upside. what if instead of spending $210 million on Price they spent something like $130 million on Jordan Zimmermann to plug in at #3 immediately. Then still make a trade for a Carrasco or someone like that. How would Arrieta, Lester, Zimmermann, Carasco, Hammel look to you? Maybe a bit righty heavy but nice right? What if all that cost you was Soler and a prospect plus the contract to Zimmermann? Or maybe you keep Hendricks and move Hammel. Either way. Then rather than dumping Castro, where they would almost certainly have to eat part of the deal, they keep him as a part of a platoon at 2B with either La Stella or Coghlan or both and your team looks like this: Infield Rizzo 1B, Castro/LaStella 2B, Russell SS, Baez 3B and an outfield of Bryant, Span, Schwarber with Montero/Ross/Schwarber at C? They probably need to get a righty OF to replace replace Denorfia but that lineup, with some serious flexibility I might add, looks awfually good both offensively and defensively. You still can see if Schwarber is a catcher, Bryant is an upgrade in RF defensively, Baez likewise at 3B. I'm predicting any of this but again they could go a lot of different directions here. I don't think Rizzo, Bryant, Schwarber or Russell are going anywhere. I think it's highly unlikely that Baez moves unless someone bowls them over. That leaves a lot of other options.
 

Raskolnikov

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I mean that's the thing right, the flexibility? They so many options here they can have multiple talks with multiple teams. I think they will acquire that cost controlled starter they're looking for. Maybe even Hendricks goes in that deal, or another one following it, because the kid coming back has more upside. what if instead of spending $210 million on Price they spent something like $130 million on Jordan Zimmermann to plug in at #3 immediately. Then still make a trade for a Carrasco or someone like that. How would Arrieta, Lester, Zimmermann, Carasco, Hammel look to you? Maybe a bit righty heavy but nice right? What if all that cost you was Soler and a prospect plus the contract to Zimmermann? Or maybe you keep Hendricks and move Hammel. Either way. Then rather than dumping Castro, where they would almost certainly have to eat part of the deal, they keep him as a part of a platoon at 2B with either La Stella or Coghlan or both and your team looks like this: Infield Rizzo 1B, Castro/LaStella 2B, Russell SS, Baez 3B and an outfield of Bryant, Span, Schwarber with Montero/Ross/Schwarber at C? They probably need to get a righty OF to replace replace Denorfia but that lineup, with some serious flexibility I might add, looks awfually good both offensively and defensively. You still can see if Schwarber is a catcher, Bryant is an upgrade in RF defensively, Baez likewise at 3B. I'm predicting any of this but again they could go a lot of different directions here. I don't think Rizzo, Bryant, Schwarber or Russell are going anywhere. I think it's highly unlikely that Baez moves unless someone bowls them over. That leaves a lot of other options.

1. Span
2. Schwarber
3. Rizzo
4. Bryant
5. Soler
6. Baez
7. Montero
8. Pitcher
9. Russell

1. Arrieta
2. Price
3. Lester
4. Harvey
5. doesn't fucking matter

You wanna end the drought? Thats how you end the drought. Keep Coughlin as a super infield/outfield utility. Spend some money...its been 100 years and you finally should see the green light of a realistic chance is there.
 

Parade_Rain

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Don't sleep on Szczur for CF. He's a hard worker and made some changes last off-season. I bet he makes more swing improvements this off-season, too. Lots of pop available in that kid, if he would make a few adjustments.
 

willycat

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Don't sleep on Szczur for CF. He's a hard worker and made some changes last off-season. I bet he makes more swing improvements this off-season, too. Lots of pop available in that kid, if he would make a few adjustments.
Sorry but Szcur has proven that he is not a everyday major league outfielder.
 

chibears55

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Which young prospects do you think we'll sell for the front line pitcher? I'd be wary of moving pretty much any of the young guys playing in the bigs right now. I really like Russell and Baez defensively at the 2B/SS positions and nobody will want Castro.

We certainly can't move Bryant or Schwarber and I think it might be too premature to move Soler. He's on an awesome contract and it's unclear what his ceiling is. But if we did have to move one of them -- probably Soler is the one I'd be most willing to part with.
I think the better question is. ..

What team has and is willing to part ways with a young established TOR type starter ?

If you have an under 28 YO stud for your TOR , why would you trade him ?

if they do find a trade partner it gonna cost more then just Soler or Castro and a couple prospects to get a young ACE.. it gonna cost a boat load of your top guys in system and I doubt at this point, cubs are ready to start unloading more then just a few of these kids now.

their gonna spend the money on a guy like Price now, and trade a Soler, Castro , or a prospect or two for an upgrade over Hammel or Hendricks. .




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