2016's Around Major League Baseball

[beckdawg]

So the dbacks option Miller to AAA. How the might have fallen. Also, how bad is that trade right now?

 

[Diehardfan]

There were more than a few guys here salivating over both Miller and Harvey in the off season. The thing is, if your own guy breaks down it just doesn't seem as bad as when someone you trade for goes down.

 

[beckdawg]

There were more than a few guys here salivating over both Miller and Harvey in the off season. The thing is, if your own guy breaks down it just doesn't seem as bad as when someone you trade for goes down.

Injuries happen in the case of Harvey. My bigger thing was Miller wasn't that amazing to warrant the price they paid when he played well. I mentioned this prior to the start of the year when many weren't on Hendricks' bandwagon but they both had the same fWAR at 3.4 and they traded a top pick plus another top 75ish pitcher and a quality MLB player for him That's just bad business in my eyes. Contrast that with the deal Boston apparently just made. Sure Espinoza is a good young player but he's 18. And I think you can argue at this point Pomeranz is similar value to what Miller should have been last offseason.

 

[brett05]

Which player listed ahead of him do you think Ryno was better than and why?

Joe Morgan to start

 

[brett05]

Injuries happen in the case of Harvey. My bigger thing was Miller wasn't that amazing to warrant the price they paid when he played well. I mentioned this prior to the start of the year when many weren't on Hendricks' bandwagon but they both had the same fWAR at 3.4 and they traded a top pick plus another top 75ish pitcher and a quality MLB player for him That's just bad business in my eyes. Contrast that with the deal Boston apparently just made. Sure Espinoza is a good young player but he's 18. And I think you can argue at this point Pomeranz is similar value to what Miller should have been last offseason.

You can argue anything. Intelligently or with even a modicum of winning said argument? Zilch. Miller last season was the superior value to Pomeranz.

 

[Omeletpants]

Joe Morgan to start

Joe Morgan is very jealous of Sandberg and used his pulpit as a MLB announcer to diss Sandberg every occasion. Sandberg was a much better defensive player than Morgan and once went 119 games without an error. Sandberg's range was ridiculous and he got to balls Morgan couldnt. Finally, Sandberg played 82 games a year on a horrible and slow Wrigley infield while Morgan played on that Cinci carpet that was extended to the bases

 

[A.C. Milan]

The Sox have not scored in the last 32 innings

 

[CSF77]

Joe Morgan is very jealous of Sandberg and used his pulpit as a MLB announcer to diss Sandberg every occasion. Sandberg was a much better defensive player than Morgan and once went 119 games without an error. Sandberg's range was ridiculous and he got to balls Morgan couldnt. Finally, Sandberg played 82 games a year on a horrible and slow Wrigley infield while Morgan played on that Cinci carpet that was extended to the bases

Did they even use UZR back then, or was it all about FLD% + bias that won a GG.

 

[CSF77]

You can argue anything. Intelligently or with even a modicum of winning said argument? Zilch. Miller last season was the superior value to Pomeranz.

Don't think he is rating one vs the other. More about the Haul Azl gave up. You can rebuild a system with that. Miller never was the best starter on any team he was on. Add to it he was not even going to be the best on Azl.

Just bad decision making. Waiting for Grenke to blow up in their face next.

 

[Diehardfan]

Here's something you don't see everyday.....

[video]http://m.mlb.com/news/article/190071118/padres-win-in-10th-on-walk-off-balk-vs-giants[/video]

 

[brett05]

Don't think he is rating one vs the other. More about the Haul Azl gave up. You can rebuild a system with that. Miller never was the best starter on any team he was on. Add to it he was not even going to be the best on Azl.

Just bad decision making. Waiting for Grenke to blow up in their face next.

He was the Braves best pitcher last year.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

He was the Braves best pitcher last year.

He absolutely was and he looked good doing it. Even he continued that it was a bad trade but since he's been awful and earned himself a trip to AAA it was even worse. Listen I wanted him in Chicago, he had the look of a guy just starting to be excellent but pitching is an odd thing inside of an even odder game.

 

[brett05]

He absolutely was and he looked good doing it. Even he continued that it was a bad trade but since he's been awful and earned himself a trip to AAA it was even worse. Listen I wanted him in Chicago, he had the look of a guy just starting to be excellent but pitching is an odd thing inside of an even odder game.

I agree, but I think hitting is vastly overrated and it seems that has been proved by the gms since the offseason

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I agree, but I think hitting is vastly overrated and it seems that has been proved by the gms since the offseason

Clearly that's what many GMs think but I'm not so sure. I've posted this before but I think this is a good piece

http://baseballjudgments.tripod.com/id80.html

According to James, baseball is on average and a very unstable average, 45% hitting, 36% pitching, 16% fielding and 3% baserunning. These are the percentages by which each aspect of the game affect the outcomes of games. So according to James, who has indisputably done the research, hitting affects the game more than does pitching.

Bottom line, to me, is that organizationally the closer baseball operations are believers in James and sabermetrics the more they favor hitting in team building and the farther away they are from that pitching is paramount in their minds and plans. Now that divide is not as wide as it used to be so there is more of a balance mentality but I think it does show something. I will always believe that Espinoza for Pomeranz and Dansby Swanson, Aaron Blair and Ender Inciarte for Shelby Miller were vast overpays. I think they are short sighted and overvalue pitching. Of course opinions are like...

 

[brett05]

Clearly that's what many GMs think but I'm not so sure. I've posted this before but I think this is a good piece

http://baseballjudgments.tripod.com/id80.html

According to James, baseball is on average and a very unstable average, 45% hitting, 36% pitching, 16% fielding and 3% baserunning. These are the percentages by which each aspect of the game affect the outcomes of games. So according to James, who has indisputably done the research, hitting affects the game more than does pitching.

Bottom line, to me, is that organizationally the closer baseball operations are believers in James and sabermetrics the more they favor hitting in team building and the farther away they are from that pitching is paramount in their minds and plans. Now that divide is not as wide as it used to be so there is more of a balance mentality but I think it does show something. I will always believe that Espinoza for Pomeranz and Dansby Swanson, Aaron Blair and Ender Inciarte for Shelby Miller were vast overpays. I think they are short sighted and overvalue pitching. Of course opinions are like...

I like a lot of the saber numbers. However, I also dislike them to a degree too. They are illogical for some. I'll always take the pitching team over the hitting team. The eye test says pitching wins more than it loses. They are also the only ones that really know where the ball is going so that gives them a leg up.

 

[CSF77]

I was ok with Lackey. Shark I was weary about. Had no opinion on Miller.

Atl's stadium benefits pitchers. Azl benifits hitters. Even Grenke is worse and he went from pitcher park to hitter park.

Just seems like he is a pitcher that is more co dependent on his environment vs raw stuff

 

[beckdawg]

I like a lot of the saber numbers. However, I also dislike them to a degree too. They are illogical for some. I'll always take the pitching team over the hitting team. The eye test says pitching wins more than it loses. They are also the only ones that really know where the ball is going so that gives them a leg up.

I have no problem with paying for pitching. What was stupid about the Miller trade was even as well as he'd pitched last year he wasn't a #1 starter. And they paid like he was one. Too many teams do this because it's obviously hard to get TOR starters. But I also think teams are often too impatient and will buy at the first sign they are competing. Looking back, the cubs signing Lester was pretty smart for a couple of reasons. For one, he's a proven player. For two he's a lefty and lefty's are even harder to acquire apparently unless you're the freakin White Sox who have like 3 good young lefties. And the third thing is the deal wasn't really that bad. 6 years $155 mil looks cheap after this past offseason. And he obviously fills that role of a vet player and leader the cubs wanted too.

I think in some regards it can be easier to build with pitching because if you get two of say Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling type pitchers, your other 3 starters largely don't matter so long as your top 2 stay healthy. That's harder with hitting because they don't really work alone. If you have the leader in OBP in a given year but the guys behind him can't hit for shit then what's all that really accomplishing? But at the same time, building that way via pitching unless you spend money or get lucky can be very costly and the attrition rate of pitching in he minors can be very scary.

For my money, if I were an owner of a team I'd want to buy the best pitching coach/development team I could get. And then I'd work to acquire talented arms that didn't work out for other teams. I feel like that gap is an area that is under utilized. Not everyone is going to be Jake Arrieta but even a lot of the failed high profile starters of the past few years have turned into dominant bull pen guys.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm curious if the cubs could find room for Terry Ryan in the organization. He probably can get another GM job and makes all this moot but he's definitely someone who knows talent and I'm of the believe you can never have too many minds.

 

[czman]

I'm curious if the cubs could find room for Terry Ryan in the organization. He probably can get another GM job and makes all this moot but he's definitely someone who knows talent and I'm of the believe you can never have too many minds.

Is that what the voices in your head say?

 

[beckdawg]

Is that what the voices in your head say?

No they keep going on and on about murder. They need some new hobbies.