2016's Around Major League Baseball

[CSF77]

Disagree on the dominant TOR starter. Lester is a bonafide ace and has been for years.

Do you classify him at the same level as Sale or Kershaw?

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Do you classify him at the same level as Sale or Kershaw?

Lester is a stud but he's not in the same category as Sale, Kershaw, Madison Bumgarer, Syndergaard or the late Jose Fernandez. I would put Lester in the category of guys like Cole Hammels, Cueto, Price, etc. One step below the top tier SP1's.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Do you classify him at the same level as Sale or Kershaw?

No, but I put him the category of Bumgarner, Syndergaard, Kluber, maybe Scherzer which is that next level of ace. The problem is that "ace" really has no meaning except that you almost have to have one to win. You don't have to have a Kershaw or Sale though.

 

[brett05]

I have Lester top 10 pitchers.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

No, but I put him the category of Bumgarner, Syndergaard, Kluber, maybe Scherzer which is that next level of ace. The problem is that "ace" really has no meaning except that you almost have to have one to win. You don't have to have a Kershaw or Sale though.

Wow you put Lester in the same category as Madbum???

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Lester is a stud but he's not in the same category as Sale, Kershaw, Madison Bumgarer, Syndergaard or the late Jose Fernandez. I would put Lester in the category of guys like Cole Hammels, Cueto, Price, etc. One step below the top tier SP1's.

Why wouldn't you put him in a category with Bumgarner? Lester's career numbers are only marginally less and he played in the AL up until last year. Actually I think Bumgarner is a very good comp to Lester but a couple of years younger.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Wow you put Lester in the same category as Madbum???

Career numbers:

Lester- 3.44 ERA, 3.5 FIP, 1.2 WHIP, 8.36 K/9, 2.89 BB/9
Bumgarner- 2.99 ERA, 3.12 FIP, 1.1 WHIP, 8.89 K/9, 2.09 BB/9

As I said Lester's numbers are marginally less but he played 8 years in the AL. The only real difference is that Lester walk a few more batters. Also in the last 4 years Bumgarner has accumulated 17.9 WAR and Lester has accumulated 18.4 . Not sure how anyone can conclude that Lester is significantly worse than Bumgarner.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

First off, there is a significant difference between a 3.44 ERA and a 2.99 ERA. Lester is pretty close to Madbum, but there is definitely a difference. Lester has also been great in the post season, but Madbum is even better.

Madbum's playoff stats:
88.1 IP
15 walks
2.14 ERA
77 K's

He has 15 f'iing walks in 88 IP. That is insane. In 2014, he pitched 52.2 innings and only gave up 6 runs, walked 6 freaking batters, and K'ed 45 hitters.

Lester has been great in the playoffs, too. His ERA is 2.85 and he's pitched 98 innings, walked 25 and K'ed 87 batters. But he's just not quite as good as Madbum.

 

[CSF77]

I would tier them as:

Sale, Kershaw, Scherzer

Lester, Price, Cueto, Bum

Bum is closer to a 1. Lester is a 2. Price is closer to a 1. Sale and Kershaw are 1's.

Noah is too short in the league to be labeled yet. Jake's recent regression puts him into a unsure category. He may end up a league 3 is he doesn't get back to throwing strikes vs screwing around nibbling the edges.

 

[brett05]

First off, there is a significant difference between a 3.44 ERA and a 2.99 ERA.

Not if one played 8 seasons in the AL. You are wrong.

 

[Ari Bear]

Do you classify him at the same level as Sale or Kershaw?

Not Kershaw but Sale yes.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Not if one played 8 seasons in the AL. You are wrong.

No! You are wrong!!! It's an opinion, bro. I would take Madbum any day over Lester. Madbum is the most dominate playoff pitcher I have ever seen.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

No! You are wrong!!! It's an opinion, bro. I would take Madbum any day over Lester. Madbum is the most dominate playoff pitcher I have ever seen.

That is an opinion, that you'd favor Bumgarner over Lester (I would not), but what isn't opinion is the 8 seasons in the AL not mattering towards the slightly increased stats. The best ERA in the AL over the last 10 years averages about .6 of a run more than the best ERA in the NL. They're facing one more hitter every game. How could that not make a difference in an 8 year sample size?

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

That is an opinion, that you'd favor Bumgarner over Lester (I would not), but what isn't opinion is the 8 seasons in the AL not mattering towards the slightly increased stats. The best ERA in the AL over the last 10 years averages about .6 of a run more than the best ERA in the NL. They're facing one more hitter every game. How could that not make a difference in an 8 year sample size?

I don't care. I would take Madbum over Lester. He's the most prolific playoff pitcher I have ever seen. I don't care what league's he's in. I have never seen anybody do what he did in 2014.

 

[brett05]

No! You are wrong!!! It's an opinion, bro. I would take Madbum any day over Lester. Madbum is the most dominate playoff pitcher I have ever seen.

No, what you wrote here is an opinion. Saying that a 2.99 era for one pitcher versus a 3.44 for another as a significant difference is ignorant at best when considering Lester pitched 8 seasons in the AL.

 

[brett05]

I should have just Thanked TC.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

No, what you wrote here is an opinion. Saying that a 2.99 era for one pitcher versus a 3.44 for another as a significant difference is ignorant at best when considering Lester pitched 8 seasons in the AL.

Relax, buddy. I think Madbum is better. Hopefully at some point in your life you will be able to accept it.

 

[brett05]

Relax, buddy. I think Madbum is better. Hopefully at some point in your life you will be able to accept it.

DJ, you keep missing it. I have not said who I like better at all. You made a terrible statement and TC and I both mentioned it to you how bad it was.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

DJ, you keep missing it. I have not said who I like better at all. You made a terrible statement and TC and I both mentioned it to you how bad it was.

No, I get it very well. AL pitchers face more batters so ERA's should be comparatively adjusted. So rescind my post then. It doesn't change my opinion.

If we're talking about "terrible statements," maybe we should revisit Renteria being a "great" manager.



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[brett05]

No, I get it very well. AL pitchers face more batters so ERA's should be comparatively adjusted. So rescind my post then. It doesn't change my opinion.

If we're talking about "terrible statements," maybe we should revisit Renteria being a "great" manager.



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We should I'm right.