2019-20 MLB Hot Stove thread

[CSF77]

Only intellectually stunted people focus on all these buzz words like hate and spending time talking about whether strangers hate or love some player they’ve never met.

Yu seems like a nice guy. He’s not who you want on the mound in a big game. So much hate. lol.

Besides, if a player sucks, I’d never blame the player anyway. Really falls on Theo.

All you have done is post a few games and a stint that he was injured. You might as well ***** about Hamels' ineffective 2nd half...oh ya you didn't. Or how many games that Kyle looked like a under talented AAA pitcher at times.

End of they day you have a agenda. It really has nothing to do with Yu's talent. It is more about dislike.

2nd half of the season:

Darvish:
2.76 ERA. SO 118 walked 7
Quintana:
5.40 ERA 68 SO 16 BB
Lester:
5.35 ERA 72 SO 29 BB
Hendricks:
3.42 ERA 64 SO 13 BB
Hamels:
5.79 ERA 46 SO 21 BB

End of the day he was the most dominate pitcher on the staff over the half. So you cherry pick a game and create a false positive on his value based off of it vs looking at the staff as a whole and ignoring the fact that 3 of the starters had ERA's over 5.

I called it hate for a player because it is not objective and bias. That is a emotional based opinion vs a logical one.

Good day

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

All you have done is post a few games and a stint that he was injured. You might as well ***** about Hamels' ineffective 2nd half...oh ya you didn't. Or how many games that Kyle looked like a under talented AAA pitcher at times.

End of they day you have a agenda. It really has nothing to do with Yu's talent. It is more about dislike.

2nd half of the season:

Darvish:
2.76 ERA. SO 118 walked 7
Quintana:
5.40 ERA 68 SO 16 BB
Lester:
5.35 ERA 72 SO 29 BB
Hendricks:
3.42 ERA 64 SO 13 BB
Hamels:
5.79 ERA 46 SO 21 BB

End of the day he was the most dominate pitcher on the staff over the half. So you cherry pick a game and create a false positive on his value based off of it vs looking at the staff as a whole and ignoring the fact that 3 of the starters had ERA's over 5.

I called it hate for a player because it is not objective and bias. That is a emotional based opinion vs a logical one.

Good day

Great. He's been a Cub for 4 halves of seasons and he's been good 1 of those 4 halves and hurt or useless the other 3. That's worth praise! He's been worth his paycheck 25% of the time. LOL.

I have bashed Quintana in this very thread, and feel he's been one of the main reasons our window slammed shut. But again, that's not his fault, that's Theo's fault for trading so much for a pitcher that was declining and a mental midget.

Lester and Hendricks won us a World Series with clutch pitching performances in huge moments, so yes, any Cubs fan who is remotely intelligent or aware of the world around them is going to be more fond of those two than Yu Darvish. Sorry that seems to exclude you. I am starting to suspect brain damage.

As for Cole Hamels, he was worth 5.5 WAR in 39 starts for the Cubs.
Yu Darvish has been worth 3.2 WAR in 39 starts for the Cubs.

Ouch. Welp, you tried.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

You might want to look in a mirror though if you want to see full blown bias. Hamels and Yu both started the exact same number of games for the Cubs the last 2 years. And one was substantially more valuable to the Cubs than the other. And you're bashing Hamels and praising Yu Darvish.

Ironically, Yu Darvish would have helped us in 2018 if he wasn't useless. We win the division if he contributes ANYTHING to the team and then who knows how the playoffs go. Nothing Hamels could have done in the 2nd half last year would have saved that pitiful team. And still, Hamels was significantly better as a Cub the last 2 years than Yu.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

Also you seem to be hyper obsessed with walks and strikeouts. Care to glance over at his 33 HR allowed on the season? Maybe he would give up less home runs if he didn't try to strike out every hitter. Just a thought. But I guess that would require learning to pitch rather than just chuck it. Not going to happen well into his 30s. Hamels is an old man losing life on everything he throws and only allowed 17 HR last year. Which is why Darvish's FIP was 4.18, while Hamels' was at 4.09. If Darvish's control problems come back even a tiny bit, he is going to be awful because he refuses to pitch to weaker contact.

 

[jrsamu]

New to the forum.

The Cubs are in a very tough spot largely of Theo's own making. Would I trade away a World Series win to redo it (i.e. deal Schwarber instead of Torres for Chapman)- no way. Nothing is guaranteed. That said, the Cubs are facing a next couple of years where the bad contracts will make re-upping the key players very difficult. And unlike the division benchmark for far too long - the Cardinals - the Cubs will not remain a major contender unless they start developing pitchers. Can David Ross right the ship himself? There are a lot of small Maddonisms that can be quick fixed to help - yes.

The offense needs more base runners and a better balance with the all or nothing approach at the plate. Still, the offense remains a strength if they make no changes. The pitching remains a big question mark, but better management of the bullpen and Kimbrel (if healthy) for a whole season should help there. The only big outlier beside lack of walks and speed in the lineup is the defense, which was second to last in 2019. That has to be a priority at 2nd base and center field, especially with that pitching staff. I think I'd ride the Bryant boat at least through the trade deadline so long as they are in contention.

And a final note - contract control is wonderful, but not when it is applied to a mediocre starting pitcher, no matter how durable he is (i.e. Quintana).

 

[jrsamu]

Great. He's been a Cub for 4 halves of seasons and he's been good 1 of those 4 halves and hurt or useless the other 3. That's worth praise! He's been worth his paycheck 25% of the time. LOL.

I have bashed Quintana in this very thread, and feel he's been one of the main reasons our window slammed shut. But again, that's not his fault, that's Theo's fault for trading so much for a pitcher that was declining and a mental midget.

Lester and Hendricks won us a World Series with clutch pitching performances in huge moments, so yes, any Cubs fan who is remotely intelligent or aware of the world around them is going to be more fond of those two than Yu Darvish. Sorry that seems to exclude you. I am starting to suspect brain damage.

As for Cole Hamels, he was worth 5.5 WAR in 39 starts for the Cubs.
Yu Darvish has been worth 3.2 WAR in 39 starts for the Cubs.

Ouch. Welp, you tried.

There is more to both stories.

As to Darvish, I wish I had an Andrew Jackson $20 for every major leaguer who has signed a monstrous contract then struggled to live up to it in year 1 of the new deal...even when healthy, and Darvish wasn't. You almost have to expect it.

As to Hamels, he was dynamite when acquired the first summer, and he was pretty effective last year until the injury, and he never seemed to be the same thereafter.

With Lester, you had to expect a deterioration - lots of mileage on those tires.

The bigger issue is zero pitching prospects to speak of for a long, long time, which necessitated overspending to secure the arms, both in the bullpen and starters. And Maddon was to relief pitchers what Dusty Baker is to starters.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

There is more to both stories.

As to Darvish, I wish I had an Andrew Jackson $20 for every major leaguer who has signed a monstrous contract then struggled to live up to it in year 1 of the new deal...even when healthy, and Darvish wasn't. You almost have to expect it.

As to Hamels, he was dynamite when acquired the first summer, and he was pretty effective last year until the injury, and he never seemed to be the same thereafter.

With Lester, you had to expect a deterioration - lots of mileage on those tires.

The bigger issue is zero pitching prospects to speak of for a long, long time, which necessitated overspending to secure the arms, both in the bullpen and starters. And Maddon was to relief pitchers what Dusty Baker is to starters.

I don’t disagree with you here. But of the 5 starting pitchers being discussed, Darvish has the lowest WAR the last 2 years of any of the 5. Even lower than Quintana, somehow. And he’s acting like I’m biased in hate against him for realizing how little he has contributed to the cubs the last 2 years. That part makes zero sense.

 

[CSF77]

I don’t disagree with you here. But of the 5 starting pitchers being discussed, Darvish has the lowest WAR the last 2 years of any of the 5. Even lower than Quintana, somehow. And he’s acting like I’m biased in hate against him for realizing how little he has contributed to the cubs the last 2 years. That part makes zero sense.

He was injured.....

Like I said Hamels was injured also in the 2nd half and not even a peep from you about that.

Fact that you are pinging only the 2 minorities is questionable as is...

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

He was injured.....

Like I said Hamels was injured also in the 2nd half and not even a peep from you about that.

Fact that you are pinging only the 2 minorities is questionable as is...

lol.

Hendricks
Hamels
Lester
Quintana
Darvish

That’s the order of pitcher WAR the last 2 years. The fact you immediately point out the bottom 2 are minorities says a lot more about your mind than it does mine. I’m simply stating a fact while you are obsessing with race for no reason.

You said I was biased against Darvish and ignored logic and reason. He’s contributed the least to the team of any of our 5 starting pitchers since he’s been a Cub. That’s a fact. You’re the clueless one and you’re the one that can’t accept what Darvish has been as a Cub to this point.

 

[zack54attack]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218247830839734274

 

[CSF77]

I don’t disagree with you here. But of the 5 starting pitchers being discussed, Darvish has the lowest WAR the last 2 years of any of the 5. Even lower than Quintana, somehow. And he’s acting like I’m biased in hate against him for realizing how little he has contributed to the cubs the last 2 years. That part makes zero sense.

Hamels value was amassed while he was healthy. We only saw 2-3 months of post injury production.

Yu came in with pre existing injuries. His lack of production reflects that.

So your post on war is based off of time healthy. Both sucked pitching injured.

Add to it you make it sound like it is getting back on a bike to restablish mechanics after pitching injured that long. Look at what happened to Chatwood. Goes from a jacked up pitching environment that he has to alter his mechanics to survive. Well those changes screwed him outside of that environment and he couldn't find the plate for a year.

So last year was what they paid for.


The end of the day these guys are not machines. It takes time and repitition to find release points and to correct mechanical errors

Even Jake took 6 months to alter and adapt to a crossfire delivery after pitching before square to the plate. Losing that velocity made him vulnerable and he had to hide more. But by going crossfire he lost the command benefits being square to the plate gives.

So get off of your high horse mmmk.

 

[CSF77]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218247830839734274

Why not at this point. That situation is ugly with the Yankee's and the fact that he went to outside medical treatment went against his contract.

Basically when you sign the contract your medical treatments are by Doctors with in MLB's net.

So I get it because of the Red Sox connection and to be honest they would be paying him a split deal and he most likely never walks into the park all season as his drama continues.

Regardless it is worth it for the 5% chance they strike gold.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

Hamels value was amassed while he was healthy. We only saw 2-3 months of post injury production.

Yu came in with pre existing injuries. His lack of production reflects that.

So your post on war is based off of time healthy. Both sucked pitching injured.

Add to it you make it sound like it is getting back on a bike to restablish mechanics after pitching injured that long. Look at what happened to Chatwood. Goes from a jacked up pitching environment that he has to alter his mechanics to survive. Well those changes screwed him outside of that environment and he couldn't find the plate for a year.

So last year was what they paid for.


The end of the day these guys are not machines. It takes time and repitition to find release points and to correct mechanical errors

Even Jake took 6 months to alter and adapt to a crossfire delivery after pitching before square to the plate. Losing that velocity made him vulnerable and he had to hide more. But by going crossfire he lost the command benefits being square to the plate gives.

So get off of your high horse mmmk.

There is no high horse. Just one of us lives in reality and the other lives in a fairytale land where you think you can pick and choose a month or two and craft a narrative.

Yu has been an awful signing to this point. Still time for that to change, but ultimately right now it is what it is. Signing him cost us a division championship, at minimum.

Lets hope he makes up for his past failures to this franchise.

 

[CSF77]

There is more to both stories.

As to Darvish, I wish I had an Andrew Jackson $20 for every major leaguer who has signed a monstrous contract then struggled to live up to it in year 1 of the new deal...even when healthy, and Darvish wasn't. You almost have to expect it.

As to Hamels, he was dynamite when acquired the first summer, and he was pretty effective last year until the injury, and he never seemed to be the same thereafter.

With Lester, you had to expect a deterioration - lots of mileage on those tires.

The bigger issue is zero pitching prospects to speak of for a long, long time, which necessitated overspending to secure the arms, both in the bullpen and starters. And Maddon was to relief pitchers what Dusty Baker is to starters.

Finally someone with some common sense.

 

[CSF77]

There is no high horse. Just one of us lives in reality and the other lives in a fairytale land where you think you can pick and choose a month or two and craft a narrative.

Yu has been an awful signing to this point. Still time for that to change, but ultimately right now it is what it is. Signing him cost us a division championship, at minimum.

Lets hope he makes up for his past failures to this franchise.

W/E dude.

One of understands that injuries happen because these are humans putting massive stress on their bodies to be able to perform at inhuman level. What it takes to be able to pitch at 89 mph is beyond what most 99.9% of humans can even fathom. Then to be able to control that velocity even to the point of a beach ball target is beyond 99.9% of the people that can even throw what is concidered a soft tosser in baseball.

Add to it pitching mechanics are a real thing. Not a fairy tale. And pitchers always have to go back to the drawing board on a every day basis to see if they are altering any mechanics much less a time span of poor mechanics to compensate a injury.

So my point ties into real life.

Your point ties into a Fan's fail expectations of a contract.

Sure if he came in healthy and pitched like E-Jax and put up turds and 100% healthy then ya I get it and the dislike is justified.

But your posts are not even logical.

 

[Castor76]

There is no high horse. Just one of us lives in reality and the other lives in a fairytale land where you think you can pick and choose a month or two and craft a narrative.

Yu has been an awful signing to this point. Still time for that to change, but ultimately right now it is what it is. Signing him cost us a division championship, at minimum.

Lets hope he makes up for his past failures to this franchise.

I got to ask why you take them not winning the 18 division title apparently so personally?

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

I got to ask why you take them not winning the 18 division title apparently so personally?

winning the division gives you a chance to get hot in the playoffs.

they likely go nowhere; but we will never know now, largely thanks to the Darvish signing. That might be our last chance for a while, looking at the state of things. That sucks.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

W/E dude.

One of understands that injuries happen because these are humans putting massive stress on their bodies to be able to perform at inhuman level. What it takes to be able to pitch at 89 mph is beyond what most 99.9% of humans can even fathom. Then to be able to control that velocity even to the point of a beach ball target is beyond 99.9% of the people that can even throw what is concidered a soft tosser in baseball.

Add to it pitching mechanics are a real thing. Not a fairy tale. And pitchers always have to go back to the drawing board on a every day basis to see if they are altering any mechanics much less a time span of poor mechanics to compensate a injury.

So my point ties into real life.

Your point ties into a Fan's fail expectations of a contract.

Sure if he came in healthy and pitched like E-Jax and put up turds and 100% healthy then ya I get it and the dislike is justified.

But your posts are not even logical.

Again, you’re just intellectually stunted. I don’t know Yu Darvish personally. I don’t know Jake Arrieta personally. When you say you don’t understand why I “dislike” Yu, despite the fact he’s been a disappointment for most of his Cubs career to this point, it shows you don’t really understand the point of being a fan to begin with.

When Yu makes the Cubs better, fans will like him more. If he continues to pitch poorly for most of the time, he will continue to be disliked as a baseball player by logical fans.

And staying healthy is a skill, as much as you’d like to paint injuries as bad luck.

Maybe Yu Darvish gets hurt a lot because he throws max velocity all of the time trying to strike everyone out because he has never learned how to truly pitch to weak contact.

I bet you’ve never even thought of that. That’s kinda sad.

 

[Castor76]

winning the division gives you a chance to get hot in the playoffs.

they likely go nowhere; but we will never know now, largely thanks to the Darvish signing. That might be our last chance for a while, looking at the state of things. That sucks.

Getting into the playoffs gives you the chance to get hot. And Darvish's performance in 2018 couldn't have affected where the Cubs finished because he only appeared in about 1/4 of the season. I'll contend that they would have been better off losing the division outright and getting that day off to reset. MLB screwed the Cubs by not flipping the NL and AL wildcard games after the 4 teams finished tied for the two divisions leads, imo.

And no team since the new playoff format has done well after winning a title, except for the one that was caught cheating the whole time.

 

[CSF77]

Again, you’re just intellectually stunted. I don’t know Yu Darvish personally. I don’t know Jake Arrieta personally. When you say you don’t understand why I “dislike” Yu, despite the fact he’s been a disappointment for most of his Cubs career to this point, it shows you don’t really understand the point of being a fan to begin with.

When Yu makes the Cubs better, fans will like him more. If he continues to pitch poorly for most of the time, he will continue to be disliked as a baseball player by logical fans.

And staying healthy is a skill, as much as you’d like to paint injuries as bad luck.

Maybe Yu Darvish gets hurt a lot because he throws max velocity all of the time trying to strike everyone out because he has never learned how to truly pitch to weak contact.

I bet you’ve never even thought of that. That’s kinda sad.

You realize that he has hit the DL 2x over his MLB career right? 2014 he had TJ and returned in 2016. 2017 he put up 31 GS.

Career wise in 1051 IP he has a 3.57 career ERA. This last year he put up 2848 net pitches. Which is getting back on track for him. You mentioned his HR against but that was a league wide issue due to the juiced baseballs. 33 was a career high for him. But that was a common theme across baseball.

Earlier you discounted BB/SO. That can not be more wrong. That is what most evaluaters look at. It is really not about pitching to contact. Anyone can do that. It is more about command of the strike zone. A good pitcher will be over 8K/9 and will run a SO:BB ratio of 2:1 Yu was at 11.54 K/9 and ran a 4.09 SO:BB ratio both well over what you want out of a front line starter.

I'm trying to give you some benefit of the doubt but every post that you make is flawed.