2021-2022 IGT Masterthread

[knoxville7]

the bench scored 13 points tonight including 3 from Ayo. So yes, I’d like to see what Coby can do off the bench.

Points don’t tell the whole story

if you were watching the game(I’m not sure one way or the other if you did), Ayo and Bradley were both on the court with Derrick Jones jr derozan and ball when they made their run to tie it up midway thru the 4th quarter.

 

[zack54attack]

Points don’t tell the whole story

if you were watching the game(I’m not sure one way or the other if you did), Ayo and Bradley were both on the court with Derrick Jones jr derozan and ball when they made their run to tie it up midway thru the 4th quarter.

Sure but at some point you need scoring. Again, they aren't going to give Coby all of Ayo's minutes but this bench scoring is a big problem. So I dont see what's wrong with giving Coby a shot.

 

[Diehardfan]

I thought they played pretty well defensively. Maybe it was just a bad game but Vuc looked mismatched against this team pretty much the whole game. A lineup with DeMar, Jones, Bradley, Ayo and Ball got them back in the game....then Billy subbed with Vuc and Zach. Even though he dropped an uncharacteristic 4th quarter turd...no one can argue getting Zach back in there but I really question putting Vuc back in. The game turned shortly after those substitutions.

Even with all that, if they just take care of the ball....they win this game. I think I saw that they had 15 TO. There had to be 5 of them in the 4th.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Why are people surprised embiid dominated Vucevic?

 

[MassHavoc]

How is that not a foul on embiid?! That’s garbage

I was just coming here to say something similar. I get the league has to protect it's stars but it is not usually from offensive fouls and its complete bullshit to let a guy like that have free reign on the court especially when Zach can't get a simple and 1. Players are going to, and did get hurt by him. He's definitely talented I'm not saying anything about his game but he was laying guys out and even when he wasn't curry would roll threw him and he'd hold them or get tangled and Curry would flop.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Points don’t tell the whole story

if you were watching the game(I’m not sure one way or the other if you did), Ayo and Bradley were both on the court with Derrick Jones jr derozan and ball when they made their run to tie it up midway thru the 4th quarter.

That's insane.

 

[knoxville7]

Sure but at some point you need scoring. Again, they aren't going to give Coby all of Ayo's minutes but this bench scoring is a big problem. So I dont see what's wrong with giving Coby a shot.

Because coby white plays losing basketball. So unless he’s vastly improved in the offseason(unlikely because he had surgery), then he’s only going to be a detriment to the team. His negative VORP each of the last two seasons is evidence of this, literally you can plug in a replacement player for him and the bulls become a better team, which is exactly what’s happening with Ayo replacing him. Ayo isn’t a star or anything, but he doesn’t play losing basketball

 

[clonetrooper264]

While I do appreciate this team's ability to come back from a deficit, I would like to see them not get down 15-18 points and have to claw their way back into the game. Defense wasn't there all game, definitely not in the first half as they gave up open 3 after open 3. Got lucky they also didn't get completely stomped on by Embiid and Drummond on top of that.

Also figure you won't win many games where you let some dude named Georges Niang outscore your whole bench

 

[CHIBEAR]

Points don’t tell the whole story

if you were watching the game(I’m not sure one way or the other if you did), Ayo and Bradley were both on the court with Derrick Jones jr derozan and ball when they made their run to tie it up midway thru the 4th quarter.

yeah but they were also on the floor when the Sixers stretched their lead in the first half .


The bench scored 7 pts in the first half and 6 points in the 2nd half so I dont know how you can argue that Coby wont get minutes when hes healthy .

Points don't tell the whole story but they are still an important part of it especially on the road . I think Coby will be fine because you dont need him to play point and run the team but instead you can surround him with defenders and let him be aggressive looking for his offense and shooting the three.

Coby

along with

Ayo 3pts
Caruso 6 pts
DJJ 4 pts
Bradley

is probably the way to go at some point


I cant emphasize enough that DD is 32 yrs old and you simply don't want to run him 36-40 mpg the entire season because thats a recipe for disaster down the line . Zach is also dealing with an injury that will probably affect him for a while so having a 3rd perimeter scorer is very much needed on this team

The Sixers went

Drummond 2pts
Niang 18pts
Joe 3pts
Milton 7pts


We desperately need the offensive punch of someone that could go for 20 off the bench

 

[CHIBEAR]

While I do appreciate this team's ability to come back from a deficit, I would like to see them not get down 15-18 points and have to claw their way back into the game. Defense wasn't there all game, definitely not in the first half as they gave up open 3 after open 3. Got lucky they also didn't get completely stomped on by Embiid and Drummond on top of that.

Also figure you won't win many games where you let some dude named Georges Niang outscore your whole bench

Niang had 21 the game before off the bench against the Blazers and the Sixers hit 13 threes in that game so nothing they did should really come as a surprise to the Bulls .

The Bulls were 6-21 from three and had 16 turnovers on the road

Make their threes and take care of the ball and win the game .

 

[clonetrooper264]

Niang had 21 the game before off the bench against the Blazers and the Sixers hit 13 threes in that game so nothing they did should really come as a surprise to the Bulls .

The Bulls were 6-21 from three and had 16 turnovers on the road

Make their threes and take care of the ball and win the game .

Maybe I'm sleeping on Niang, but either way the Bulls did not play winning basketball most of the game as you showed with the TO and shooting numbers there. On the other end they were letting Philly have open 3 after open 3 and when the other team has a shooter like Seth Curry you have to do better than that.

Bulls didn't really deserve to win that game but that is going to happen over the course of an 82 game season, learn from it and bounce back next game.

 

[knoxville7]

yeah but they were also on the floor when the Sixers stretched their lead in the first half .


The bench scored 7 pts in the first half and 6 points in the 2nd half so I dont know how you can argue that Coby wont get minutes when hes healthy .

Points don't tell the whole story but they are still an important part of it especially on the road . I think Coby will be fine because you dont need him to play point and run the team but instead you can surround him with defenders and let him be aggressive looking for his offense and shooting the three.

Coby

along with

Ayo 3pts
Caruso 6 pts
DJJ 4 pts
Bradley

is probably the way to go at some point


I cant emphasize enough that DD is 32 yrs old and you simply don't want to run him 36-40 mpg the entire season because thats a recipe for disaster down the line . Zach is also dealing with an injury that will probably affect him for a while so having a 3rd perimeter scorer is very much needed on this team

The Sixers went

Drummond 2pts
Niang 18pts
Joe 3pts
Milton 7pts


We desperately need the offensive punch of someone that could go for 20 off the bench

Okay, here’s the issues with what you’re saying…

first, you say the bulls need scoring off the bench…that’s true. But, then you say you put coby out there and surround him with defenders to offset his lack of defense…well, you’ve effectively limited the scoring potential when coby is on the court in that scenario then

second, I never said coby wouldn’t get minutes. The issue is…who do you take minutes away from, to give to coby? They have to come from someone. And yes, a few minutes can come from derozan…but you aren’t taking too many minutes from derozan

third, the bulls need a big that can defend and rebound. Coby is the piece that the bulls can move to get a guy like that. And that guy will help the scoring off the bench by getting stops and rebounds that allow the bulls to get into transition to get easy buckets. Not sure if you’ve noticed, but the bulls are at their best in transition

 

[Scoot26]

Why are people surprised embiid dominated Vucevic?

I'm not.

 

[Enasic]

Defense took way too long to wake up
Got nothing from Vuc offensively
Too many turnovers
LaVine with some brutal hero ball in the 4th

Hopefully they can learn from this and stop getting in these big holes.

 

[CHIBEAR]

Maybe I'm sleeping on Niang, but either way the Bulls did not play winning basketball most of the game as you showed with the TO and shooting numbers there. On the other end they were letting Philly have open 3 after open 3 and when the other team has a shooter like Seth Curry you have to do better than that.

Bulls didn't really deserve to win that game but that is going to happen over the course of an 82 game season, learn from it and bounce back next game.

Oh yeah I consider every game against Philly ,Bucks ,Nets , as important early season learning experiences for this team. Its even better that they get to come right back against Philly on Saturday as you get to see what sorta mental and strategic adjustments they can make and how quickly they can make them sorta like a in a playoff series .

 

[zack54attack]

Because coby white plays losing basketball. So unless he’s vastly improved in the offseason(unlikely because he had surgery), then he’s only going to be a detriment to the team. His negative VORP each of the last two seasons is evidence of this, literally you can plug in a replacement player for him and the bulls become a better team, which is exactly what’s happening with Ayo replacing him. Ayo isn’t a star or anything, but he doesn’t play losing basketball

What on earth does this even mean lol I don't think the Bulls are a better team because Ayo has played the first few games and Coby hasn't. That makes zero sense.

 

[CHIBEAR]

Okay, here’s the issues with what you’re saying…

first, you say the bulls need scoring off the bench…that’s true. But, then you say you put coby out there and surround him with defenders to offset his lack of defense…well, you’ve effectively limited the scoring potential when coby is on the court in that scenario then

second, I never said coby wouldn’t get minutes. The issue is…who do you take minutes away from, to give to coby? They have to come from someone. And yes, a few minutes can come from derozan…but you aren’t taking too many minutes from derozan

third, the bulls need a big that can defend and rebound. Coby is the piece that the bulls can move to get a guy like that. And that guy will help the scoring off the bench by getting stops and rebounds that allow the bulls to get into transition to get easy buckets. Not sure if you’ve noticed, but the bulls are at their best in transition

The Bulls have ZERO scoring potential in your current lineup

Coby is the only guy of the bench we have that can explode for 20 at anytime and those guys always are needed in the modern nba.

You surround Coby with defenders to offset his defense but you are placing Coby with those defenders to offset their lack of offense as well in addition to being able to reduce the minutes of DD and Lavine .

I surely hope you dont think that you can expect DD and Lavine to have this sorta minute output for 82 games and then expect them to not have dead legs come playoff time ?


You need Coby so that some games he can go off for those 15-25 point outburst and you can steal some rest for Zach and DD and instead of them playing 35-40 minutes they can play 28-30 and have a early rest in the 4th . Right now there is nobody on the bench that can allow them to rest because they simply dont have the offense

The Bulls need a big but they also need a scorers off the bench . What big can the Bulls get that somehow is gonna get them 15-25 off the bench in transition points alone ? Thats why Coby is needed because all his points do not need to come in transition he simply can put the ball in the basket in any situation .

The Bulls shot 6-21 from three yesterday why would we be getting rid of a top 50 three point shooter ?

Tempo pushers and defenders who can also stretch the floor

Lonzo
Caruso

Scorers

Zach
DD
Vuc
Coby

every single other players job is to defend, hustle and playoff the other guys for open shots and transition baskets

 

[knoxville7]

What on earth does this even mean lol I don't think the Bulls are a better team because Ayo has played the first few games and Coby hasn't. That makes zero sense.

Go look at VORP for coby. He’s been a below average NBA player in his two years. Replacing him with someone who is league average does improve the team. It’s backed up by the numbers. That’s what it means

 

[knoxville7]

The Bulls have ZERO scoring potential in your current lineup

Coby is the only guy of the bench we have that can explode for 20 at anytime and those guys always are needed in the modern nba.

You surround Coby with defenders to offset his defense but you are placing Coby with those defenders to offset their lack of offense as well in addition to being able to reduce the minutes of DD and Lavine .

I surely hope you dont think that you can expect DD and Lavine to have this sorta minute output for 82 games and then expect them to not have dead legs come playoff time ?


You need Coby so that some games he can go off for those 15-25 point outburst and you can steal some rest for Zach and DD and instead of them playing 35-40 minutes they can play 28-30 and have a early rest in the 4th . Right now there is nobody on the bench that can allow them to rest because they simply dont have the offense

The Bulls need a big but they also need a scorers off the bench . What big can the Bulls get that somehow is gonna get them 15-25 off the bench in transition points alone ? Thats why Coby is needed because all his points do not need to come in transition he simply can put the ball in the basket in any situation .

The Bulls shot 6-21 from three yesterday why would we be getting rid of a top 50 three point shooter ?

Tempo pushers and defenders who can also stretch the floor

Lonzo
Caruso

Scorers

Zach
DD
Vuc
Coby

every single other players job is to defend, hustle and playoff the other guys for open shots and transition baskets

Again, so you want to put 4 guys on the court with coby that struggle offensively and expect coby to carry the offense for stretches of time on the court. That’s a bad idea. Coby playing hero ball is the problem, so your solution is to put him in positions that will only amplify that

and the bulls NEVER will have 5 bench guys on the court at the same time in any sort of meaningful minutes. Billy has shown that Lavine and/or derozan will be on the court at any given time that matters. So I’m not sure why you are harping on the notion that the bulls have “zero scoring potential in current lineups.” That’s just false

 

[zack54attack]

Go look at VORP for coby. He’s been a below average NBA player in his two years. Replacing him with someone who is league average does improve the team. It’s backed up by the numbers. That’s what it means

Ayo has played in 8 games lol. This logic makes no sense. You need scoring off the bench, we can't settle for 13 bench points every night.