2022-23 NBA Season THREAD (2023 Playoffs Talk)

[clonetrooper264]

its almost as if akme had their balls ripped off when joining this organization, they are eerily similar to garpax when it comes to doing nothing...they've now seen this group does not work, they've seen lavine is overpaid and not a franchise player to build around. they've also proven they cant evaluate talent in taking williams over haliburton.

I'm still convinced this take is purely due to hindsight. 11 teams passed on Haliburton, I suppose all 11 can't evaluate talent. Taking that logic further, all 30 teams failed to see that Jokic was an MVP level talent as every team passed on him at least once.

Not saying that PWill was a good pick, everyone knows that was a reach even at the time of the draft. More so, the draft is a crapshoot. If a top 5 pick is a bust and some mid lotto or late 1st pick ends up being the all star, do we just say that whoever passed on the later pick doesn't evaluate talent well? We can call out many FOs every year in that case.

 

[Enasic]

I'm still convinced this take is purely due to hindsight. 11 teams passed on Haliburton, I suppose all 11 can't evaluate talent. Taking that logic further, all 30 teams failed to see that Jokic was an MVP level talent as every team passed on him at least once.

Not saying that PWill was a good pick, everyone knows that was a reach even at the time of the draft. More so, the draft is a crapshoot. If a top 5 pick is a bust and some mid lotto or late 1st pick ends up being the all star, do we just say that whoever passed on the later pick doesn't evaluate talent well? We can call out many FOs every year in that case.

You said it though….he was a reach. A big one. He didn’t even start at Fl St but AKME thought it was a good idea to draft him in the top 5. It was bad no matter how you wanna slice it

 

[Chicago4Life]

I'm still convinced this take is purely due to hindsight. 11 teams passed on Haliburton, I suppose all 11 can't evaluate talent. Taking that logic further, all 30 teams failed to see that Jokic was an MVP level talent as every team passed on him at least once.

Not saying that PWill was a good pick, everyone knows that was a reach even at the time of the draft. More so, the draft is a crapshoot. If a top 5 pick is a bust and some mid lotto or late 1st pick ends up being the all star, do we just say that whoever passed on the later pick doesn't evaluate talent well? We can call out many FOs every year in that case.

i think what irritates me the most with the pwill pick is that akme used the 4th pick on a bench role player...yea i know the seminoles rotated a lot of guys and blah blah but the bottom line for williams was he was a role player in college. Even after getting drafted he talked about how he plays his role whatever that may be and do it well...does that sound like a guy you take in the top 5? you could get that same answer from a guy you take in the 2nd rd....His lack of aggressiveness shows on the court and after several years its gone nowhere...now maybe pwill will get traded and thrive on another team, if so that is an indictment on donovan and by extension akme...

the draft evaluation was one thing, the misevaluations on lavine, ball, vuce trade set this franchise back for years...lavine a franchise player? nope...vuce for carter jr and two 1st rd picks? nope...handing ball +80 mill when he's never played a full season? lol
their best move was derozan who played lights out and is now prob looking for a new deal...

now vuce prob signs with a new team in free agency when bulls could have traded him last season and at least got some sort of compensation for him but instead stood pat thinking bulls could actually contend...this could also have netted them their own pick since its top 4 protected but i digress...

and since AK is not going anywhere anytime soon it'll be a nice long summer of nothing where the bulls will run it back with the majority same crew and expect different results. Go Bulls!

 

[clonetrooper264]

You said it though….he was a reach. A big one. He didn’t even start at Fl St but AKME thought it was a good idea to draft him in the top 5. It was bad no matter how you wanna slice it

I didn't say otherwise

 

[knoxville7]

You said it though….he was a reach. A big one. He didn’t even start at Fl St but AKME thought it was a good idea to draft him in the top 5. It was bad no matter how you wanna slice it

You say he was a reach, but in reality it was just a weak draft class. Who was there at #4 that was a clear cut slam dunk no brainer of a decision to take over PWill? This wasn’t a scenario of taking darko over Carmelo and a handful of other guys or anything close to it

It was a weak draft and a poor time to have a top 5 pick is the reality of what occurred. AKME picked a guy with a high ceiling like any GM in that position should(the position being a weak draft and picking 4th).

All these other takes are nonsense in reality. Yes, of course someone drafted after PWill at #4 ended up being a better player, just like 95+% of all #4 picks do I would venture to say

 

[Enasic]

You say he was a reach, but in reality it was just a weak draft class. Who was there at #4 that was a clear cut slam dunk no brainer of a decision to take over PWill? This wasn’t a scenario of taking darko over Carmelo and a handful of other guys or anything close to it

It was a weak draft and a poor time to have a top 5 pick is the reality of what occurred. AKME picked a guy with a high ceiling like any GM in that position should(the position being a weak draft and picking 4th).

All these other takes are nonsense in reality. Yes, of course someone drafted after PWill at #4 ended up being a better player, just like 95+% of all #4 picks do I would venture to say

It was a poor draft class but it was a major reach. Not sure how it wasn’t? He couldn’t even start at Florida State. Either way…in terms of past AKME moves and the short and long term outlook of the team….its grim and has been a colossal disappointment to this point. Until I see moves that actually lead to wins and sustained success, the AKME regime has been a total failure

 

[knoxville7]

It was a poor draft class but it was a major reach. Not sure how it wasn’t? He couldn’t even start at Florida State. Either way…in terms of past AKME moves and the short and long term outlook of the team….its grim and has been a colossal disappointment to this point. Until I see moves that actually lead to wins and sustained success, the AKME regime has been a total failure

Because everything I already explained regarding taking a high ceiling player when the draft board is trash when you pick, being the correct move to make

Everyone on here was jizzing when the bulls traded for Vuc, but the same people trash the move now due to it not working like everyone hoped

Everyone knew the bulls needed a PG and many were in love with the Lonzo signing, some did prefer dejaunte murray( @Gustavus Adolphus ) over Lonzo, but again it was a universally praised acquisition

You yourself jizzed over the signing of demar, despite some people like myself telling you that move was a questionable one due to fit

So what AKME moves were really considered poor moves at the time they were made?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Because everything I already explained regarding taking a high ceiling player when the draft board is trash when you pick, being the correct move to make

Everyone on here was jizzing when the bulls traded for Vuc, but the same people trash the move now due to it not working like everyone hoped

Everyone knew the bulls needed a PG and many were in love with the Lonzo signing, some did prefer dejaunte murray( @Gustavus Adolphus ) over Lonzo, but again it was a universally praised acquisition

You yourself jizzed over the signing of demar, despite some people like myself telling you that move was a questionable one due to fit

So what AKME moves were really considered poor moves at the time they were made?

I wish I could say that I wanted Murray over Ball because I saw the impending knee issue. Ball, as it turns out, was probably a much better fit than Murray would have been. I think my timeline might be off here, but they signed (or traded for??) DeMarr after signing Ball. Maybe they don't go after DeMarr if they sign Murray.

As for Williams, I can't believe we'd still be harping on that Williams wasn't in the starting lineup at FSU. Michael Porter Jr played like 4 games at Missouri, and he was a solid contributor in the NBA Finals this year. Every year we see guys who put on shows at the NCAA tournament who flame out in the NBA. It simply does not matter.

I've been a big supporter of PWill, but it's time to cut bait. He's improved defensively, but he is just not going to get the opportunity to develop offensively with who is in front of him. Beyond that, he's not aggressive enough to show the other three (especially you, Vuc) that he should/could get the chances to flourish offensively.

He'll be an all-star for the Heat.

 

[Enasic]

I wish I could say that I wanted Murray over Ball because I saw the impending knee issue. Ball, as it turns out, was probably a much better fit than Murray would have been. I think my timeline might be off here, but they signed (or traded for??) DeMarr after signing Ball. Maybe they don't go after DeMarr if they sign Murray.

As for Williams, I can't believe we'd still be harping on that Williams wasn't in the starting lineup at FSU. Michael Porter Jr played like 4 games at Missouri, and he was a solid contributor in the NBA Finals this year. Every year we see guys who put on shows at the NCAA tournament who flame out in the NBA. It simply does not matter.

I've been a big supporter of PWill, but it's time to cut bait. He's improved defensively, but he is just not going to get the opportunity to develop offensively with who is in front of him. Beyond that, he's not aggressive enough to show the other three (especially you, Vuc) that he should/could get the chances to flourish offensively.

He'll be an all-star for the Heat.

I believe MPJ was a top 3 recruit out of HS. I’m not sure Pat Williams was even top 50. They weren’t on the same level as prospects and even with the nagging back injuries, MPJ is the vastly superior player.

 

[Enasic]

Also, I’m as down on Pat as anyone, but when you say “cut bait” what do you mean? Dump him for peanuts? Fact is he’s still young, cheap and does have upside still…although I doubt he ever reaches whatever potential he has. He’s the type of player the Bulls should be keeping though unless they can package him for an all-star somehow

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I believe MPJ was a top 3 recruit out of HS. I’m not sure Pat Williams was even top 50. They weren’t on the same level as prospects and even with the nagging back injuries, MPJ is the vastly superior player.

#20 per Rivals:

2019 Rivals150 Prospect Ranking

The definitive source for all Rivals news.

rivals.rivals.com

 

[Enasic]

#20 per Rivals:

2019 Rivals150 Prospect Ranking

The definitive source for all Rivals news.

rivals.rivals.com

I’m not familiar with rivals but no one can convince me he wasn’t a reach. I’ve seen several experts agree after the draft and most of my friends who follow college basketball wanted to puke after the pick. I don’t think most people even knew who Williams was until a few days before the draft when rumors were he was rising

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I’m not familiar with rivals but no one can convince me he wasn’t a reach. I’ve seen several experts agree after the draft and most of my friends who follow college basketball wanted to puke after the pick. I don’t think most people even knew who Williams was until a few days before the draft when rumors were he was rising

I literally have no idea how to respond to this.

 

[Enasic]

I literally have no idea how to respond to this.

We disagree. It happens

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

We disagree. It happens

Reasonable people can disagree and still talk. The post I quoted seemed to make it clear you were unwilling to have a discussion.

 

[Enasic]

Reasonable people can disagree and still talk. The post I quoted seemed to make it clear you were unwilling to have a discussion.

We can talk about it but I’m not sure what you’re going to present to change my mind. If you want to continue to try, go ahead. Reasonable people also often agree to disagree. Especially for a non factual and opinionated situation such as this. If you want to continue the discussion if p Williams was a reach or not, go on ahead. I personally don’t care to convince anyone one way or the other and think it’s fine to have the opinion that you do

 

[clonetrooper264]

I found this decently interesting article on PWill from 2020

The 2020 NBA Draft’s Safest Gamble

Patrick Williams hasn’t shown a lot, but the flashes the Florida State freshman has displayed could be enough to make him a lottery pick. Will one of this draft’s biggest unknowns also prove to be one of its biggest steals?

www.theringer.com

tldr; PWill has a very high ceiling, but also a very high floor. He's a gamble, but a safe one as he'll definitely be able to carve out a role in the NBA

My personal take on it is that if the Bulls were still in suck mode and didn't go for Ball, Derozan, etc, and instead tried to feature PWill as the #2 to Zach, we might see a very different player than we see today. Though the "indictment" on him is still there, he's willing to play the role you tell him to without complaint, so if you tell him to be a 3&D 4th option, that's what you get. Not very "star" like.

 

[knoxville7]

Reasonable people can disagree and still talk. The post I quoted seemed to make it clear you were unwilling to have a discussion.

It’s pretty much par for him

You can present logical, well thought out conclusions and he will just say that there is nothing you can do to change his mind

A real dandy of a person to try and converse with. He wants to have reasonable conversations, yet he is unwilling to listen to opposing viewpoints ever. Oh well

 

[knoxville7]

I wish I could say that I wanted Murray over Ball because I saw the impending knee issue. Ball, as it turns out, was probably a much better fit than Murray would have been. I think my timeline might be off here, but they signed (or traded for??) DeMarr after signing Ball. Maybe they don't go after DeMarr if they sign Murray.

As for Williams, I can't believe we'd still be harping on that Williams wasn't in the starting lineup at FSU. Michael Porter Jr played like 4 games at Missouri, and he was a solid contributor in the NBA Finals this year. Every year we see guys who put on shows at the NCAA tournament who flame out in the NBA. It simply does not matter.

I've been a big supporter of PWill, but it's time to cut bait. He's improved defensively, but he is just not going to get the opportunity to develop offensively with who is in front of him. Beyond that, he's not aggressive enough to show the other three (especially you, Vuc) that he should/could get the chances to flourish offensively.

He'll be an all-star for the Heat.

Your timeline is correct.

And I agree with the PWill discussion. It was a weak draft and AKME took the guy with one of the highest ceilings, which is exactly what a GM should do in that situation

 

[Scoot26]

The revisionist history and amount of hindsight in here is too high.