[A] Bergevin named GM of Canadiens

[Larmer83]

I don't know that Mcneil was/is supposed to be the 2nd line Center next year. Most I've read have said he needs another year, or a year in the AHL. Burke sure did want him in a bad way. No question. And you don't just throw a kid from JR's in a professional league and expect him to put up numbers. You know that. Mcneil and Kevyn Hayes could come near advertized.



Saad as well.



Leddy was in his 2nd year. 2-3 years from now he may be real good. Even Keith regressed in year #2.



And really Keith regressed the last TWO seasons of which making a Cap hit of 5 mil.

I know all of this. I just temper my excitement until these players can prove themselves at the NHL level.

 

[R K]

gotcha. I'm excited about all four players actually. I spent some time talkng with Hayes #2 at the last Hawks game. IMO he's going to be a good one. Plus, winning the Championship he knows what one takes. I give Stan credit for last years draft actually. Almost every player "could" be NHL material. Not often you can say that about ANY draft.

 

[Ton]

If there is one thing I give the current front office staff credit for is their ability to put together a good draft.



Here's where I draw the line: Can they develop them? So far I haven't seen anything that suggests they can develop players the same way that Dale and Rick's staff were able to guide these players through the ranks.

 

[dlrob315]

If there is one thing I give the current front office staff credit for is their ability to put together a good draft.



Here's where I draw the line: Can they develop them? So far I haven't seen anything that suggests they can develop players the same way that Dale and Rick's staff were able to guide these players through the ranks.

That is true, they do not reach on players in the draft but the pro personnel side they are very weak.

 

[Pez68]

Kane and Toews needed how much development, exactly?

What players did the Hawks develop and guide through the ranks under Dale and Rick? Not trying to be a dick, just curious because I'm too lazy to look.

 

[Ton]

Kane and Toews needed how much development, exactly?

What players did the Hawks develop and guide through the ranks under Dale and Rick? Not trying to be a dick, just curious because I'm too lazy to look.

Brouwer, Versteeg, Bolland, Hjalmarsson, Byfuglien (most credit here no doubt), Burish, Fraser, Bickell, Dowell, Wisniewski, Niemi, even Keith and Seabrook have given Tallon a lot of credit publicly... certainly I'm missing a few.

 

[Larmer83]

Kane and Toews needed how much development, exactly?

What players did the Hawks develop and guide through the ranks under Dale and Rick? Not trying to be a dick, just curious because I'm too lazy to look.

That depends on your definition of " develop and guide" and for that matter draft.



Some "learned" hockey followers like to rip Tallon for his drafting of Barker as Asst GM while conveniently dismissing that in the same draft the Hawks picked Bolland, Brouwer, Bickell, and Jake Dowell. All still in the NHL.



Tallon gets ripped, deservedly so, for his UFA signings. Anyone care to guess on his first UFA signing? Rene Bourque- certainly more than a serviceable winger. He was developed at Norfolk.



Colin Fraser was acquired in a trade with Philly and developed at Norfolk. Looks decent as a 4th line center on LA.



Hjarlmarsson spent some time with Rockford after being drafted by Tallon.



Versteeg spent some time in the AHL after being acquired by Tallon.

 

[R K]

Well they can rip him all they want but the first years were Pulford and at that NO ONE wanted to come to Chicago. So either he had to over pay them, or they werent coming. Havlat was not a bad UFA. Khabi, while mostly Pulford was not that bad, unfortunately he had ASS in front of him as a team.



Khabi, Brown, Barnaby, Aucoin, Cullimore, ect ect were mostly Pulford. After that first year his years of medeling were done. even still for the first few years no one in HELL wanted to play in Chicago. So that said wasn't too much Tallon or ANYONE could have done.

 

[CLWolf81]

He said "worst kept secret".

My bad... I was drinking Labatt Blue last night, give me a break.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

Yes my opinion on Clendening is based on one game. Stephen Johns was shit in the same game. The difference was that Johns wasn't out of his element from a physical stand point(Speed, size, skill). Clendening was. The concentration of talent was such that Clendening was not clearly accustomed to at a collegiate level. I doubt he'll make the adjustment at a professional level. Johns could make that adjustment as a stay-at-home dman.



As for the rest of the Hawks draft class of 2011, my comment of "Remains to be seen" is hardly throwing the rest under the bus. But let's start with Danault.



Danault turned into the pick for the rights to Brouwer. McPhee(Wash GM) as on record that he felt the depth of the 2011 draft was less than stellar. I'll take McPhee's draft acumen over Junior's any day of the week and twice thrice on Sunday. So the Caps got Brouwer at the same terms as the Hawks signed Frolik(That's borderline criminal incompetence).



McNeil? Could not make the World Jrs. team for Canada. He was not even one of the last cuts. Sorry if I'm not doing hand stands over McNeil especially when he had zero points in his 7 game or so with The Rock. And he's supposed to be the next #2 center on the Hawks?



Saad may be the real deal. But when I heard he was voted the most gentlemanly player in the OHL I just cringed. And at the same time, realized he fits the Stan Bowman mold.



Nick Leddy is ... well, Nick Leddy. Talented offensively. A liabilty in front of and behind his net. Yes he should have spent time more time in the AHL. But there are probably reasons beyond talent/seasoning why he was moved up.

Again, you are basing your entire opinion on a player from ONE game. I see your theory, but it's absolute crap. He did have 5 points in 6 games through out the tournament (Only two of which were in the blow out of Denmark). For an offensive defenseman, that ain't bad against the best 20 year olds in the world.



Dandault was over a point per game in the QMJHL, was the team captain at age 17, and has a great two way game. Willing to do what ever the team needs. Hell, had 2 assists in 7 games for Rockford.



McNeill, sure he didn't have a statisically dominant season. For anyone to say he's ready for the pro's next season is quite assinine. He's got great pro size, but why bring him in when he could benefit from another year in juniors? Making team Canada as an 18 year old is tough and while some do make the team, many don't as 18/19 year olds. Again, the fact that he didn't make the WJC shouldn't deter him as a good player.



Not worried about Saad getting the Most Gentlemenly Award. If anything, that means he knows how to play against guys without taking dumb penalties.



Leddy I'm not worried about. He's getting quality ice time and isn't the worst dman on the ice. He's shown signs of improvement and I give him credit for at least making strides towards being a better dman in his own zone.

 

[PatrickShart]

This Dale Tallon didn't sign any bad free agents...it was always someone else...and his drafts were the greatest in the history is getting a little ridiculous here



For Scooter..Shaw was a pretty good pick. Leddy was a steal...basically a pick to get a kid in HS. Saad, Morin, Hayes are kids that have seen time in the 2 years he's drafted.



Kevin Hayes, McNeil, Rundsfedlt, Nordstrom, Johns...etc....there's others that seem to be pretty good prospects.



Tallon also drafted Skille 7th overall in 2005 - where he sucked that entire draft - with 12 picks and Hjarllmarsson the only decent player...at number 4-5 dman.



2006...Toews the only player out of 9 picks



2007...Kane only player out of 7 picks



2008...Ben Smith only one out of 7 picks



In the 4 drafts - 2005 to 2008...35 picks...5 played in the NHL? Smith and Skille boarderline at best?



But he's going to get credit for the Keith, Seabrook, Byfuglien...when Pulford was the GM? Thats fine...if DT was the "Assistant GM" and will get the credit...but then doesn't get the blame for when he was the GM and signed - Barnaby, Brown, Aucoin, Perreault, Lapointe....etc?

 

[Ton]

If you have a 15% chance of your draft picks panning out, I'd say that's a good ratio according to NHL standard. And if you don't include Byfuglien in that ratio, you clearly have no clue. Maybe he didn't draft him but he most certainly had the biggest hand in his development. Much like Keith and Seabrook.

 

[Pez68]

This Dale Tallon didn't sign any bad free agents...it was always someone else...and his drafts were the greatest in the history is getting a little ridiculous here



For Scooter..Shaw was a pretty good pick. Leddy was a steal...basically a pick to get a kid in HS. Saad, Morin, Hayes are kids that have seen time in the 2 years he's drafted.



Kevin Hayes, McNeil, Rundsfedlt, Nordstrom, Johns...etc....there's others that seem to be pretty good prospects.



Tallon also drafted Skille 7th overall in 2005 - where he sucked that entire draft - with 12 picks and Hjarllmarsson the only decent player...at number 4-5 dman.



2006...Toews the only player out of 9 picks



2007...Kane only player out of 7 picks



2008...Ben Smith only one out of 7 picks



In the 4 drafts - 2005 to 2008...35 picks...5 played in the NHL? Smith and Skille boarderline at best?



But he's going to get credit for the Keith, Seabrook, Byfuglien...when Pulford was the GM? Thats fine...if DT was the "Assistant GM" and will get the credit...but then doesn't get the blame for when he was the GM and signed - Barnaby, Brown, Aucoin, Perreault, Lapointe....etc?

You must be new here.

 

[PatrickShart]

LOL...it's a bit ridiculous...no??

 

[R K]

LOL...it's a bit ridiculous...no??

I actually gave Stan credit for his first draft this year. I think it could turn out very well. Then again, similar to Tallon with goofy shit from Pulford, Stan has Mcdonough. Funny some things change, and some things stay the same.



And just so we are clear wasn't Tallon the Director of Player Personell under Pulford and Smith. Yes, 98-02....

 

[PatrickShart]

So then should the director of player personal get credit for the good stuff that happened under Tallon?



This hand picking anything good=Tallon....bad...everyone else/not his fault is kind of getting pathetic



"dale Tallon was near the tables when Crosby and Ovechkin were picked...do those teams should credit him too"

 

[R K]

Nope and I think he did some questionable stuff, especially in the early years, but I'd take him over Stan any day of the week. Then again I'd have never fired him for setting the team up to win a Cup either.

 

[R K]

He also had to over come 14 years of inept shit.

 

[PatrickShart]

And Dale was part of those inept years as well



His era is over. Stan's early in his career and has made some very good moves, and like any other GM that's ever been around, made a few mistakes. But he hasn't locked in any bad/long term mistakes, started out with a pretty sketchy cap problem. And 2 years later, they're pretty young, have a de ent crop, and good cap space. After 2yrs removed from cap hell..it would be moronic to thing they'd be back in the cup the following year after having to turn over the roster by 50% the last 2 yrs. its tough to have to coach that way as well. This year, it appears there may be a lot less turn over, which is something most no other team had to go through.

 

[roshinaya]

While not a fan of Scooter, I will give him the benefit of a doubt until the conclusion of the season 2012-13. If it's again a first round exit then he is a failure, with a core like the Hawks have now, it's unacceptable. Scooter will have a chance to show if he's serious on winning this off-season. Already the notion that having one of the most talented right wingers in the game playing center would be a solution to the weak center depth is ridiculous. Not looking good.