[A] Blackhawks (29-15-7) @ Oilers (19-26-5) - 02/02 - 8:30 PM

[Shantz My Pants]

Back on topic, apparently Frolik is scratched tonight and Bickell is in. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but Bickell is better suited to the 4th line. What a disappointment Frolik has been.

On a lot of team, Frolik would be a 2nd line forward. He's gotten into a bad groove with the Hawks and unfortunately hasn't been able to shake it. I think he has the talent but he isn't/might not get the chances here to prove it. He is only 23ish, not even in his prime.

 

[the canadian dream]

wooooooaaaa Pez. 90% of the time when a player makes a fuss about the coach or a team system etc it's the player that is delt or removed. We just saw it 2 weeks ago with Cammellari. Even All-Stars aren't immune to this. Roy and lidros (although Lidrtos had the rights to ***** Clarke is an asshoel questioning Lindros efforts and abilities to play while suffering from a major concussion..worst GM ever) are 2 perfect examples. Both bitched about coaching and management and 2 seconds later they were shipped off. Correct me if I am wrong as I don't know the politics that happened clearly but didn't we see the same thing with Roenick?



I have no issues with Bickell being played tonight. Let's see how he reacts this time. I think this is his last chance. Who knows maybe the Oilers have some interest in him also. I could see him fitting in with the Oilers team (this is a complete rumor start here and is based on nothing but my Special person mind).

 

[Pez68]

Cammellari didn't ***** about the coach. He bitched about the team and the organization and basically called them losers. He didn't do it privately either, he did it to the media. There's a big difference there. The Cammellari situation has nothing to do with this conversation. Bitching about management publicly is not what I'm talking about, either. I'm talking about the players voicing their concerns over coaching to those in charge. The organization's loyalty lies with the players that make them money, not the coaches.



Now I'm hearing that Bickell and Frolik are both scratched, which means OD or Lepisto in, and Scott playing forward?

 

[R K]

You obviously don't know me very well. I don't ever "sit there and take it". Sorry to disappoint you.

another reason you'd never play in the NHL and or have never played in the NHL. I do know 100% Q is a players coach. And again know several people that play for him, and none would do what you suggested no matter HOW frustrated they had became. Hell for all you know some of them already are but I'm not answering that question as it's not my place. But if they were, they'd not go running to Stan.



I'll just disagree with your opinion on this one, knowing that you've never been there. Ad Calamari most definitely bitched about the coachng among other things. Agan you've never played in the NHL. I'm not trying to slam you either.



And yes you saw the same thing with JR. The only one that the old man didn't ship off after bitching was Chelios and that was because of the way Chelios went about it. Hell Amonte and his Agent wanted to come BACK after they dissed them and were told no.



Again only a very small percentage would be vocal, and you are talking about the cream of the crop, which THOSE GUYS DON'T *****!

 

[Pez68]

"When you display a losing attitude like we do now, you lose more often than you win and you stay in the same place. When you show a winning attitude, you are not stifled by mistakes and you respond to a mistake with 15 good plays at the other end, you win and you get out of misery. This is not what we are doing here now, " he said.

"I can't accept that we will display a losing attitude as we're doing this year. We prepare for our games like losers. We play like losers. So it's no wonder why we lose," Cammalleri told La Presse and and NHL.com.

This shit isn't made up. This is exactly what he said. I don't see him make mention of the coach at all. Unless you somehow want to point to his comment "we prepare for our games like losers" as bashing the coach, but sure sounds like he's talking about the TEAM to me.



And you still didn't answer the question about what you do when you're unhappy with your boss.



I doubt any of these players in the NHL got there by "sitting there and taking it". It's actually quite the opposite. Even at the highest levels of youth hockey(AAA, varsity high school, etc), the coaches cater to the superstars on the team. Period.

 

[R K]

well the ones I know didn't and dont.. They would then be labeled if they ddi. Again ask an NHLer if you don't believe me. As for your question, working for a milti billion dollar corporation for over a decade, I always went through the proper channels. If you didn't you didn't have a job. That's how that works 99% of the time. My boss was worth about 2.8 bil, you pissed him off, you didn't work there anymore. That meant following the procedure. Going out of the proper chain or proceedure, got you fired.

 

[R K]

as for Calamri you conveniently left out the first part of the article. I'll post it for you.



Montreal Canadiens forward Mike Cammalleri ripped his team for being a bunch of "losers" and voiced his displeasure over a reduction in ice time under interim head coach Randy Cunneyworth.



"I can't accept that we will display a losing attitude as we're doing this year," Cammalleri said Wednesday. "We prepare for our games like losers. We play like losers. So it's no wonder why we lose."





NO doubt he was referring to coaching. NONE.



But when you fail to C n P the first part of that LOL!

 

[Pez68]

well the ones I know didn't and dont.. They would then be labeled if they ddi. Again ask an NHLer if you don't believe me. As for your question, working for a milti billion dollar corporation for over a decade, I always went through the proper channels. If you didn't you didn't have a job. That's how that works 99% of the time. My boss was worth about 2.8 bil, you pissed him off, you didn't work there anymore. That meant following the procedure. Going out of the proper chain or proceedure, got you fired.

That's a cop out. What is the "proper channel" or "proper procedure"? Most people don't work for a boss worth $2.8b, so your example is pretty poor. Most people work for some kind of upper or middle management, that answers to quite a few people above them. ESPECIALLY in "larger companies" which are riddled with layer upon layer of management. Coach Q, to your own admission, is pretty low in the food chain in the Blackhawks Corporation. He's certainly not worth $2.8b and he's certainly not going to fire Patrick Kane if he has an issue with him.

as for Calamri you conveniently left out the first part of the article. I'll post it for you.



Montreal Canadiens forward Mike Cammalleri ripped his team for being a bunch of "losers" and voiced his displeasure over a reduction in ice time under interim head coach Randy Cunneyworth.



"I can't accept that we will display a losing attitude as we're doing this year," Cammalleri said Wednesday. "We prepare for our games like losers. We play like losers. So it's no wonder why we lose."





NO doubt he was referring to coaching. NONE.

I'd love to hear or see the quote where he voiced displeasure over a reduction in ice time. Because I've yet to see or hear it, and I watched and read a lot about this as it went down. That is an ASSumption made by an obviously biased Montreal reporter.

 

[R K]

That second sentence is all about coaching Mr. Hockey.



Again NONE of the superstars I know, who currently play in the NHL, at about the highest level you can play, would say ONE WORD throwing their coach under the bus. I know this for fact.

 

[Ton]

Back on topic, apparently Frolik is scratched tonight and Bickell is in. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but Bickell is better suited to the 4th line. What a disappointment Frolik has been.

Where did you hear that? They had the same lines at practice, so unless it's a last minute decision I thought Frolik would be playing.

 

[Pez68]

Where did you hear that? They had the same lines at practice, so unless it's a last minute decision I thought Frolik would be playing.

The 300 level.. No link was given, so I dunno. Might be bullshit.

That second sentence is all about coaching Mr. Hockey.



Again NONE of the superstars I know, who currently play in the NHL, at about the highest level you can play, would say ONE WORD throwing their coach under the bus. I know this for fact.

"I can't accept that we will display a losing attitude as we're doing this year," Cammalleri said Wednesday. "We prepare for our games like losers. We play like losers. So it's no wonder why we lose."



The only part of that sentence that MIGHT be referring to coaching, is the "we prepare" part of it, and I still think he's talking about the players.



And you actually KNOW a lot of superstars do you?

 

[the canadian dream]

This shit isn't made up. This is exactly what he said. I don't see him make mention of the coach at all. Unless you somehow want to point to his comment "we prepare for our games like losers" as bashing the coach, but sure sounds like he's talking about the TEAM to me.



And you still didn't answer the question about what you do when you're unhappy with your boss.



I doubt any of these players in the NHL got there by "sitting there and taking it". It's actually quite the opposite. Even at the highest levels of youth hockey(AAA, varsity high school, etc), the coaches cater to the superstars on the team. Period.

Nah they cater to mommy and daddies wants. Some coaches even touch the players and give them the no feeling.



I really don't think players ***** that often in the NHL or in hockey about their coaches or GM's in public or behind closed doors. Typically those that do don't make it to the NHL level as they are seen as selfish and egotistical. I wouldn't want that sort of player on my team who is always making a fuss about shit. Just look what happens all the time to kids in the farm system that complain about not getting up to the big club or ***** about the game down there? Most end up playing in Europe.



Hockey has a great way of weeding out dick wads and divas. There are certainly a few that still fall through the crack but most are weeded out pretty fast. I don't know if you can say the same for most pro sports. No one wants added distractions on hockey clubs. It's a long physical hard season and there is no room or time for added bs. Managers and Coaches won't tolerate it as it's a distraction.



Don't worry Pez. Q will eventually get fired. They always do. It's just not happening while the team has a winning record and the players are playing for him. And trust me the players are playing for him. Like RK said Q is a players coach. He gives them a lot of free reign out there on the ice and all players like that. There are no signs that the core players are unhappy.



Toews is posting career numbers (what the hell does he have to ***** about?), Hossa continues to post strong numbers (no need for him to *****), Sharp also continues to post solid numbers, Keiths game has been better since last season (still makes the occassional Keith mistakes), Seabs has been his same old self. Kane is probably the only one that has had any real slumps this season as far as the core goes (maybe Keith also here and there but thats just Keith). Can't fully crucify Q for Kane but I'm sure the position juggling has hurt Kane through the season (just really don't see signs that Kane hasn't been accepting of the challenges).



Bollands the big issue here and I understand the frustration too. I have been wanting Bolland second lining for the last 2 months now also. I would have prefered it over Kane at the start of the season. Certainly makes more sense than Kruger and now Morrison (which wont last long). If anyone on the team has reason to ***** it would actually be Bolland. I don't think that's in his character though. So we can do it for him.

 

[Ton]

Scott at forward? Where the hell are you getting this? LOL he's the 6th d-man tonight.



Frolik, Lepisto and OD are scratches tonight. You were right about Bickell replacing Frolik.

 

[the canadian dream]

ohhhhh and P.S.



A good coach (which is what Q is) will actually approach a player and ask the questions "how are you feeling", "what are your concerns", "what are you seeing out there on the ice that I am not" etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.



There is no doubt in my mind that a working relationship with a Coach and a player is vital. Esp when it's team captain and coach. I guarentee Toews and Q get a long enormously well and comminicate professionaly. No doubt in my mind that this goes for other players also.



As will a GM. Which is why guys like Tallon are so well respected and loved by players who play for him.

 

[Ton]

On this team, I don't doubt that Toews has a solid relationship with Q. Throughout the NHL, who knows.



Ovechkin definitely had some influence in Washington firing BB. Around the NHL I don't think it's uncommon for players to have a hand in coaching moves.



2-3 years ago no one talked about firing coach Q... fast forward to today and I still don't think he'll be fired this season or in the off-season, nor do I think it's the right time. That said, I am still critical of his decisions lately, I just hope he gets his head out of his ass.

 

[the canadian dream]

Shit we really need this game to start.



Also lets not forget its battle of the fucktards tonight in Vancouver. Wangs/Canfucks. So a Hawks win tonight is huge!!! Well not huge huge as it's not an elimination game but as far as points go and division/conference this game is big.

 

[Pez68]

We all realize how big this game is as far as points are concerned. I hope the Hawks do too.

 

[Variable]

Holy shit, there's been enough disagreeing in this thread for some people to have to take a couple of years, nevermind months, away from the site. Bravo for soldiering on through all of it.

 

[Pez68]

Holy shit, there's been enough disagreeing in this thread for some people to have to take a couple of years, nevermind months, away from the site. Bravo for soldiering on through all of it.

I'm not a quitter.

 

[Ton]

Holy shit, there's been enough disagreeing in this thread for some people to have to take a couple of years, nevermind months, away from the site. Bravo for soldiering on through all of it.

I enjoy it more than the "**** you, no **** you" game.