All Spring Training IGT

[TC in Mississippi]

Old school player. Most old school agree that the current players are pampered too much and end up injured due to the limits imposed on them. Old school players were more durable.

On the bat flip. I get it. Don't show up a pitcher. Goose is old school and would buzz him which can lead to a suspension.

Only thing is he dropped too many f-bombs. Rest he has a point that the non-players have taken over the sport.

Yeah, that doesn't fly with me. This is a new generation and, more importantly, appeals to an even younger one. The unwritten rules don't speak to many of them and I'm not sure whether they should. You get new fans by getting them into the game young. Bautista's bat flip was joyous and what sports are about IMHO and Cespedes and some of the others don't bother me either. Harper is right when he says the game is tired, at least from a certain point of view. I don't believe you should ever show up another player but a bat flip over an emotional HR or a raised fist or a joy filled dance around the base paths after a game winner aren't that. Rather than get angry players should use those opposing celebrations to motivate themselves to do better the next time. Emotion is allowed in every level of the game and every international league with MLB being the only one clinging to this "play the game the right way " BS. I'm 54 years old and enjoy yelling at whippersnappers to get off my lawn as much as the next guy but this is nonsense and pretty low rent business from Gossage.

The "nerds" comment is almost as bad. Metrics have enhanced the understanding of the game and in no way diminish what has gone before. Different aspects of play have been shown to help teams win and there are player skill sets that are now more appreciated. So what? Knowledge is power. I used to really like watching Gossage pitch but I'm not interested in hearing him talk anymore.

 

[CSF77]

Biggest change was hitters valued BA first. Now OBA holds higher value. This changes the approach at the plate. Before hitter would just try for contact and swing at pitches that they could not drive. Now they are waiting for those pitches more. Thus the SO rates are increasing due to going deeper into counts.

Pitching side I agree with Goose where the pitchers are restricted by pitch counts and we are seeing higher injury and T.J's as a result. It is a common thing in this age to go through TJ.

I have a hard time arguing against him on that point because the proof is there to back the statement

 

[Diehardfan]

Biggest change was hitters valued BA first. Now OBA holds higher value. This changes the approach at the plate. Before hitter would just try for contact and swing at pitches that they could not drive. Now they are waiting for those pitches more. Thus the SO rates are increasing due to going deeper into counts.

Pitching side I agree with Goose where the pitchers are restricted by pitch counts and we are seeing higher injury and T.J's as a result. It is a common thing in this age to go through TJ.

I have a hard time arguing against him on that point because the proof is there to back the statement

Back in the day starters would occasionally throw 150 pitches and still tell his manager he was okay when being pulled. Today that would be headline news. Doesn't make a lot of sense. Today's pitchers eat better, train better, pampered more and are in better shape physically....yet they are more easily injured. Probably the "need for speed" factor over the control factor figures into it.

 

[fatbeard]

Pitching side I agree with Goose where the pitchers are restricted by pitch counts and we are seeing higher injury and T.J's as a result. It is a common thing in this age to go through TJ.

I have a hard time arguing against him on that point because the proof is there to back the statement

Where is this "proof" you speak of? If MLB teams had "proof" that pitch counts resulted in elbow/shoulder injuries, why aren't they acting on it?

 

[Parade_Rain]

Back in the day starters would occasionally throw 150 pitches and still tell his manager he was okay when being pulled. Today that would be headline news. Doesn't make a lot of sense. Today's pitchers eat better, train better, pampered more and are in better shape physically....yet they are more easily injured. Probably the "need for speed" factor over the control factor figures into it.

Agreed. Pitchers throw harder today.They are trying to squeeze every last bit of MPH out of their shoulder and elbow. There is also a lot more ball played at the youth level, but I believe it has more to do with mechanics and trying to go to the tip of velocity as they get later in HS, preparing for college, getting drafted, etc.

 

[SilenceS]

We have had threads about this. Dr. Andrews believes its kids playing travel ball all year round at a young age is a big factor. They are throwing off mounds 12 months a year. They aren't giving their arm a break to rest and recover. Also, the playground hero dad's will abuse them by having them throw breaking balls at a young age with bad mechanics and with a body not developed enough to handle the stress. He also believes kids up to a certain age should never throw off a mound. They should only throw off flat ground.

Kerry Wood is a good example of abuse. He was a flame thrower. Throwing 98 as a senior in HS. He wasn't exactly built. He was tall, but thin frame at the time. Couple of days after he was drafter. His HS coach had him throw 190 pitches. No telling what he has had him doing before that. I couldn't believe the Cubs or his father didn't step in on that one.

 

[CSF77]

We have had threads about this. Dr. Andrews believes its kids playing travel ball all year round at a young age is a big factor. They are throwing off mounds 12 months a year. They aren't giving their arm a break to rest and recover. Also, the playground hero dad's will abuse them by having them throw breaking balls at a young age with bad mechanics and with a body not developed enough to handle the stress. He also believes kids up to a certain age should never throw off a mound. They should only throw off flat ground.

Kerry Wood is a good example of abuse. He was a flame thrower. Throwing 98 as a senior in HS. He wasn't exactly built. He was tall, but thin frame at the time. Couple of days after he was drafter. His HS coach had him throw 190 pitches. No telling what he has had him doing before that. I couldn't believe the Cubs or his father didn't step in on that one.

Think it had to do with his follow through. He didn't finish the throw proper. Something about showing his number to the batter after release. Most of the durable pitchers did this and it was to properly follow through. Later they got into the whole W in the wind up which caught attention.

So I see it as mechanics more than anything.

On tossing breaking pitchs. Ya I umped little league and had to call a auto ball and warn that team's manager if any breaking pitches were made. We allowed fastballs and change ups. About it. Think it was pony league when the pitchers were able to use them.

 

[chibears55]

Ugggh
Stuck listening to sox broadcasters for today game..

Of course the sox has most their regulars starting against the Cubs. ..

 

[CSF77]

Agreed. Pitchers throw harder today.They are trying to squeeze every last bit of MPH out of their shoulder and elbow. There is also a lot more ball played at the youth level, but I believe it has more to do with mechanics and trying to go to the tip of velocity as they get later in HS, preparing for college, getting drafted, etc.

So they throw harder than Nolan Ryan?

Maybe the Big Train as he was est. at 91 which was unheard of at that time.

My opinion is injury increased with the lowering of the mound. But that was a good 20 years of time before the pitch restrictions became in the for front.

Even closers used to pitch 2-3 innings in the 70's. That was common.

 

[CSF77]

Wouldn't mind hearing the opinion of guys like Gibson, Ryan, Sever etc. guys that pitched over that era

 

[Parade_Rain]

So they throw harder than Nolan Ryan?

Maybe the Big Train as he was est. at 91 which was unheard of at that time.

My opinion is injury increased with the lowering of the mound. But that was a good 20 years of time before the pitch restrictions became in the for front.

Even closers used to pitch 2-3 innings in the 70's. That was common.

No. There are pitchers who don't have the ability or physical genetics of Nolan Ryan trying to be Nolan Ryan, because that's what scouts/college coaches want.

And for the injury risk due to lowering the mound, that is the opposite of what the general thought seems to be. Flat ground is better.

 

[Diehardfan]

No. There are pitchers who don't have the ability or physical genetics of Nolan Ryan trying to be Nolan Ryan, because that's what scouts/college coaches want.

And for the injury risk due to lowering the mound, that is the opposite of what the general thought seems to be. Flat ground is better.

He was a genetic freak. The guy pitched for 27 years throwing 100 MPH fastballs and drop off the table curves....he was never known for having good control as he walked a ton of guys so you know he threw a shitload of pitches. He was on the 69 Mets for God's sake.

 

[beckdawg]

So the draft is sort of finalized(could still trade compensation picks). The cards have the 23rd, the 33rd and 34 and I believe their competitive balance pick is #37. That leaves them sort of interestingly situated.

 

[brett05]

Today's pitchers on average throw much harder than ever. Are there exceptions? Sure. Sam McDowell still might be the fastest pitcher of all time, but the outliers do not make the rule.

I think a lot of you all made great points from breaking pitches and 12 months of baseball as youths, to poor mechanics like Kerry Wood had, to not pitching enough at the big league level, etc, etc.

 

[DanTown]

Today's pitchers on average throw much harder than ever. Are there exceptions? Sure. Sam McDowell still might be the fastest pitcher of all time, but the outliers do not make the rule.

I think a lot of you all made great points from breaking pitches and 12 months of baseball as youths, to poor mechanics like Kerry Wood had, to not pitching enough at the big league level, etc, etc.

I'm not sure this generation throws that much harder but I think this generation believes in 100% pitching 100% of the time. And when you count in the number of innings youth players throw (when previous generations of baseball players were most likely multi-sport stars), I think you can see why arm injuries are so prevalent.

 

[DanTown]

Impressive spring starts (super small sample) for some of the prospects

Wilson Contreras - 5 for 10 with 3 doubles, 4 walks, and zero strikeouts
Jorge Candelario - 8 for 24 with 2 HR, 2 doubles, 2 walks, 3 strikeouts

CJ Edwards - 3 innings, 1 hit, 1 BB, 3 strikeouts

 

[brett05]

I'm not sure this generation throws that much harder but I think this generation believes in 100% pitching 100% of the time. And when you count in the number of innings youth players throw (when previous generations of baseball players were most likely multi-sport stars), I think you can see why arm injuries are so prevalent.

Are you saying pitchers throw more now? If so, that is completely false.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I'm not sure this generation throws that much harder but I think this generation believes in 100% pitching 100% of the time. And when you count in the number of innings youth players throw (when previous generations of baseball players were most likely multi-sport stars), I think you can see why arm injuries are so prevalent.

Youth players have plenty of opportunity to be multi-sport stars. As a matter of fact 90% or so of D1 baseball players played a second sport, such as football.

 

[brett05]

Impressive spring starts (super small sample) for some of the prospects

Wilson Contreras - 5 for 10 with 3 doubles, 4 walks, and zero strikeouts
Jorge Candelario - 8 for 24 with 2 HR, 2 doubles, 2 walks, 3 strikeouts

CJ Edwards - 3 innings, 1 hit, 1 BB, 3 strikeouts

Hard to read. A lot of guys doing pretty awful too. But at least it is baseball

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/stats/sortable.jsp?c_id=chc#game_type='S'&playerType=ALL&elem=[object+Object]&tab_level=child&click_text=Sortable+Player+hitting&season=2016&season_type=ANY&league_code=%27MLB%27&sectionType=sp&statType=hitting&page=1&ts=1457971973746

 

[brett05]

Youth players have plenty of opportunity to be multi-sport stars. As a matter of fact 90% or so of D1 baseball players played a second sport, such as football.

A lot of guys I knew played basketball to keep their cardio up for the baseball season as well as stay in shape.