All Things Theo/Ricketts

[X]

I think Feldman probably gets dealt and the return will be less than people think it will be.

I think it would be a mistake to extend Wood right now because I still don't think this is the true Travis Wood. He doesn't strike out a lot of hitters and I also think it is very unlikely he can sustain his low number of hits allowed. He is allow almost 2 hits less per 9 innings than his career totals while striking out .5 less batters per 9 innings as well. Those numbers don't seem sustainable to be both striking out less hitters and allowing less hits. His BAbip number is about 40 under his career numbers. I will be surprised if he ends the seasons with an ERA under 3.5

On a really quality staff he should be about a #4 starter.

Completely agree with everything you said. I do think his ceiling is probably a #3 starter, but he's playing at a likely unsustainable level right now.


I just realized next year will be his first year of Arb. That will take care of it. Was thinking he had more service-time than that for some reason.

 

[mountsalami]

Out of curiosity, what do you all think the braintrust does w/ T.Wood and Feldman? I think we sell off Feldman, but may try to sign Wood to a 3-4 year deal. If we do want to extend Wood, I think negotiating before the end of the season would be a good idea...

Too early to tell.

I could care less with what they do with Terd Wood and Feldman. I never wanted or liked either player to begin with.

I am more concerned with retaining Shark and Garza. I want to see them BOTH extended and that is where their investment should be.

The Jackson contract appears to be a dead one so far. He's the highest paid of the SP. But since he doesn't start shit in the dugout and on the field, I guess he's okay to keep shoveling millions at.

This team is set up to fail with what has been brought in the last two offseasons. A ton of stupid decisions.

If I were at the controls, Shark and Garza would be the only two players on the entire team that wouldn't be up for sale.

That's how fucking bad this team is.

This team needs some superstar players on it, to carry them for an extended period of time, during this shitstorm of stupidity and indecision, or "rebuild" as others have noted. Having some great players on your team makes it MUCH easier to figure out where the help is truely needed.

If they are just going to **** around and turn over players every year hoping to find lightning in a bottle. This team will SUCK year in and year out. The opposite of what many believe will be a contender for years over.

But hey !!!! Maybe they'll get lucky one year and be a surprise like Theo claimed Oakland did last year.

The only problem is Theo is not Billy Beane.

 

[waldo7239117]

Teams do overpay all the time, so anything can happen.

 

[X]

Too early to tell.

I could care less with what they do with Terd Wood and Feldman. I never wanted or liked either player to begin with.

I am more concerned with retaining Shark and Garza. I want to see them BOTH extended and that is where their investment should be.

The Jackson contract appears to be a dead one so far. He's the highest paid of the SP. But since he doesn't start shit in the dugout and on the field, I guess he's okay to keep shoveling millions at.

This team is set up to fail with what has been brought in the last two offseasons. A ton of stupid decisions.

If I were at the controls, Shark and Garza would be the only two players on the entire team that wouldn't be up for sale.

That's how fucking bad this team is.

This team needs some superstar players on it, to carry them for an extended period of time, during this shitstorm of stupidity and indecision, or "rebuild" as others have noted. Having some great players on your team makes it MUCH easier to figure out where the help is truely needed.

If they are just going to **** around and turn over players every year hoping to find lightning in a bottle. This team will SUCK year in and year out. The opposite of what many believe will be a contender for years over.

But hey !!!! Maybe they'll get lucky one year and be a surprise like Theo claimed Oakland did last year.

The only problem is Theo is not Billy Beane.

Tell us how you really feel?

 

[Franko725]

Teams do overpay all the time, so anything can happen.

Given that a lot of teams are going to feel that they are still in it at the deadline, some team will more than likely overpay for Feldman. There will be more than a few teams looking for a starter, so they may also get a bit of a bidding war.

I really think that the front office is going to keep Wood around. He is still only 26. He is maturing and getting better as a pitcher. While there is no reason to think that he can keep up the current production that, there is equally no reason to think that he will automatically revert to his career numbers either. He is more likely to be a pitcher somewhere in the middle of the two. I will take that any day of the week. While some think at best he is a #4, isn't that EXACTLY what the Cubs will be asking him to be come next season? If they re-sign Shark and Garza, and add Appel through the draft, Wood would be expected to be your #4 or #5 depending on where they slot Jackson.

 

[X]

Given that a lot of teams are going to feel that they are still in it at the deadline, some team will more than likely overpay for Feldman. There will be more than a few teams looking for a starter, so they may also get a bit of a bidding war.

I really think that the front office is going to keep Wood around. He is still only 26. He is maturing and getting better as a pitcher. While there is no reason to think that he can keep up the current production that, there is equally no reason to think that he will automatically revert to his career numbers either. He is more likely to be a pitcher somewhere in the middle of the two. I will take that any day of the week. While some think at best he is a #4, isn't that EXACTLY what the Cubs will be asking him to be come next season? If they re-sign Shark and Garza, and add Appel through the draft, Wood would be expected to be your #4 or #5 depending on where they slot Jackson.

Right -- add in the fact that he's 1st year arb-eligible this off-season, and he's probably gonna be around for a cpl years.

 

[mountsalami]

If they re-sign Shark and Garza, and add Appel through the draft, Wood would be expected to be your #4 or #5 depending on where they slot Jackson.

This would be okay IF they start adding some offense.

Jackson had better get his shit together or he'll end up just being a money pit in the bullpen until he can be dumped off for more garbage.

 

[KBisBack!]

The only problem is Theo is not Billy Beane.

That is a great point.

A lot of people look at what he has done in Oakland and the whole sabermetrics approach to baseball and how he has been able to successfully flip major league players and get the most return for them and say that is the blueprint for how things should be done.

Well there is one major flaw I see in that theory.

The blueprint doesn't include Billy Beane who might be the greatest GM in the history of the sport. At least in modern times and the FA era.

Since taking over as A's GM for the 1998 season, the Athletics have only been out of the bottom ten in salary two seasons when they ranked 16th and 17th in salary. Most of the seasons they have been in the bottom five in salary.

Despite being truly limited in his budget (not like the Cubs this past offseason despite the whining of some), the A's have made the playoffs in six of 15 seasons and have had winning seasons in nine of the 15 seasons.

He isn't perfect in his trades. He gave up a lot to get Holliday and ended up with pretty much nothing in the trade to the Cardinals. They ended up with very little in the Tim Hudson, Dan Haren, Joe Blanton, Rich Harden trades, but he also made good trades for Damon, Dye and got some good return in the trades of Mulder and Swisher and he has been pretty successful taking cast offs and plugging them in.

But just because he has been able to do it does not mean that just anyone can do what he has done trying to copy his blueprint.

 

[KBisBack!]

Given that a lot of teams are going to feel that they are still in it at the deadline, some team will more than likely overpay for Feldman. There will be more than a few teams looking for a starter, so they may also get a bit of a bidding war.

That is the way it USED to be, but I think that time of overpaying at the deadline is over. Especially with teams not getting draft pick compensation for players traded for at the deadline who will be FA at seasons end like Feldman.

Last year Ryan Dempster was a much better pitcher than Scott Feldman with a much longer track record of success and only netted the Cubs a mid level prospect.

The only trade deadline deal from last year that I remember involving players who would be a FA at seasons end who netted a top prospect was Zack Greinke going to the Angels and Anibal Sanchez to the Tigers.

And let's be realistic here. Scott Feldman is NOT Zack Greinke or Anibal Sanchez.

 

[Willrust]

He isn't perfect in his trades. He gave up a lot to get Holliday and ended up with pretty much nothing in the trade to the Cardinals. They ended up with very little in the Tim Hudson, Dan Haren, Joe Blanton, Rich Harden trades, but he also made good trades for Damon, Dye and got some good return in the trades of Mulder and Swisher and he has been pretty successful taking cast offs and plugging them in.

Josh Donaldson (involved in Rich Harden deal) has become a solid 3B for the A's (would look nice on the Cubs right now). The Cahill trade netted a good return (Parker to fill in for Cahill, added Ryan Cook to bullpen and traded Colin Cowgill to the Mets for 3B prospect Jefry Marte). The Andrew Bailey deal worked great for them last year (Bailey was injured and Reddick put up some nice power numbers).

You're right though, it would be near impossible to do the same things that Beane has been able to accomplish. However, the Cubs have the ability to add payroll that Beane doesn't have. So, really isn't a true comparison.

 

[Willrust]

That is the way it USED to be, but I think that time of overpaying at the deadline is over. Especially with teams not getting draft pick compensation for players traded for at the deadline who will be FA at seasons end like Feldman.

Last year Ryan Dempster was a much better pitcher than Scott Feldman with a much longer track record of success and only netted the Cubs a mid level prospect.

The only trade deadline deal from last year that I remember involving players who would be a FA at seasons end who netted a top prospect was Zack Greinke going to the Angels and Anibal Sanchez to the Tigers.

And let's be realistic here. Scott Feldman is NOT Zack Greinke or Anibal Sanchez.

To be fair, there were only 3 starting pitchers dealt during the deadline last year that were going into FA and wouldn't net their new team a comp draft pick (Dempster, Greinke & Sanchez). And while Scott Feldman isn't in the same planet in terms of talent compared to Greinke & Sanchez, Ryan Dempster wouldn't have been on the same continent and the Cubs still netted a top 10 prospect (and top 100 overall prospect) from the Rangers (a team who many believe had the best farm system in baseball, and still have a top 5 system currently even with the callups of Profar and Martin). Also, people have forgotten the other pickup the Cubs got in that deal, Kyle Hendricks. Hendricks looks like the best pitcher in the Cubs system along with Pierce Johnson.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hendri001kyl

And a little prognostication:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-on-rangers-prospects-dealt-for-ryan-dempster

I would say that the Angels overpaid for Greinke. If they would have extended him, no; but without the extension the Angels got fucked on that deal.

 

[KBisBack!]

To be fair, there were only 3 starting pitchers dealt during the deadline last year that were going into FA and wouldn't net their new team a comp draft pick (Dempster, Greinke & Sanchez).

Nothing to 'be fair' about.

The fact that only 3 were traded is exactly the point. There is less value in those players now and Feldman can't hold the jock of any of those three.

And while Scott Feldman isn't in the same planet in terms of talent compared to Greinke & Sanchez, Ryan Dempster wouldn't have been on the same continent and the Cubs still netted a top 10 prospect (and top 100 overall prospect) from the Rangers

Feldman isn't even on the same planet as Dempster so useless to compare the two.

And Villanueva is struggling big time at AA, yet you still think he is a lock to be a productive major league player.

Oh wait, he was a top 100 prospect!!!! Big Fucking Deal. Yeah, he was number 100 out of 100. Had he been #101 no one would care, and don't even strawman their is a difference between prospect numbers 100 and 101. They are the same. Still probably less than a 10% chance that they ever are even an average major league player.

I would say that the Angels overpaid for Greinke.

Yippee for you.

Doesn't mean a team will overpay for Feldman though.

 

[Willrust]

And Villanueva is struggling big time at AA, yet you still think he is a lock to be a productive major league player.

Villanueva isn't struggling "big time" at AA:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=villan001chr

He is hitting .259/.320/.416 in his first foray into AA. His K/BB rates are similar to his previous years and although his HR rates are down, his doubles rates are nearly doubled.

Notice you didn't have anything snide to say about Kyle Hendricks. Would you care to shit all over yet another prospect?

Why do you have to fly off the handle with things? I have never said that Villanueva was a lock for anything. He is a young prospect with upside. He has the defensive capability to play in the majors, but the question is and always has been his ability to hit over .260 and to hit with power.

Yippee for you.

Doesn't mean a team will overpay for Feldman though.

Certainly doesn't, but it points to teams competing for a playoff spot are not afraid to overpay for players that they feel can put them over the edge, even with the changes to compensatory draft picks.

 

[KBisBack!]

He is hitting .259/.320/.416 in his first foray into AA. His K/BB rates are similar to his previous years and although his HR rates are down, his doubles rates are nearly doubled.

Those numbers for a 22 year old at AA are nothing to get excited about.

Notice you didn't have anything snide to say about Kyle Hendricks. Would you care to shit all over yet another prospect?

Oh my god, a prospect!!!!!

:fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap:

I'll have something to say if he gets a shot at the majors.

Why do you have to fly off the handle with things? I have never said that Villanueva was a lock for anything. He is a young prospect with upside. He has the defensive capability to play in the majors, but the question is and always has been his ability to hit over .260 and to hit with power.

Pointing out your absurd obsession with all things prospects is not flying off the handle.

It is pointing out how unrealistic your fetish with prospects is.

Certainly doesn't, but it points to teams competing for a playoff spot are not afraid to overpay for players that they feel can put them over the edge, even with the changes to compensatory draft picks.

Once again it doesn't mean a thing when it comes to Scott Feldman.

Scott Feldman doesn't put any team over the edge.

 

[mountsalami]

Sacrificing Potential Wins For A Trade Return On Marmol.

As if Dan Haren wasn't enough of a return for Marmol after what Marmol has displayed over the last two plus seasons...

Continuing to place Marmol on the field, only bolsters some beliefs here, that the Cubs are truely tanking seasons for prospects.

What did Command Central truely expect to get in a return for him ? If Haren's supposed minor injuries were a concern, then why did they trade for Vizcaino, sign Baker, and trade for an injured Ian Stewart ?

Why is it that Marmol is still on the 25 man roster today ?

His salary shouldn't be the issue because it wasn't for Zambrano or Byrd.

Is Dale just plain stupid, or is he being forced to play him by Command Central ?

Is Dale just a puppet ?

I would doubt that Milwuakee would even trade John Axford to us, for Marmol, if the Cubs paid both of their salaries.

This situation has been and is more than disgusting to watch unfold.

I would like the board's thoughts on this subject.

 

[Boobaby1]

As if Dan Haren wasn't enough of a return for Marmol after what Marmol has displayed over the last two plus seasons...

Continuing to place Marmol on the field, only bolsters some beliefs here, that the Cubs are truely tanking seasons for prospects.

What did Command Central truely expect to get in a return for him ? If Haren's supposed minor injuries were a concern, then why did they trade for Vizcaino, sign Baker, and trade for an injured Ian Stewart ?

Why is it that Marmol is still on the 25 man roster today ?

His salary shouldn't be the issue because it wasn't for Zambrano or Byrd.

Is Dale just plain stupid, or is he being forced to play him by Command Central ?

Is Dale just a puppet ?

I would doubt that Milwuakee would even trade John Axford to us, for Marmol, if the Cubs paid both of their salaries.

This situation has been and is more than disgusting to watch unfold.

I would like the board's thoughts on this subject.

It is time to simply cut ties with him. PERIOD!

Eat his salary if they have to, create another roster spot, and move forward.

I don't believe they were sacrificing the season by keeping him, I believe they were trying to catch lightning in a bottle hoping he could duplicate his 2nd half performance last year and actually pitch 3 months of baseball so they could have a chance to net something......anything. It obviously has not worked.

It's time to let some of the AAA people get a chance in the bullpen after the deadline.

 

[mountsalami]

Post all your Theo & Ricketts bashing/homerism stuff here. Stop bringing it up in every single thread. Keep it all centralized here. If you post stuff off-topic to the thread pertaining management/ownership, it will be moved here.

Funny how a new thread was created about the Cubs and Marmol and lists no off-topic material pertaining to management/ownership.



:fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap:

 

[X]

Funny how a new thread was created about the Cubs and Marmol and lists no off-topic material pertaining to management/ownership.

you'll have to take this one up w/ someone else :shrug:

 

[mountsalami]

you'll have to take this one up w/ someone else :shrug:

LOL.

I find it hilarious more than anything.

Must be some Marmol rookie card owners that don't want to see the value drop on my behalf.

 

[X]

LOL.

I find it hilarious more than anything.

Must be some Marmol rookie card owners that don't want to see the value drop on my behalf.

always a possibility