All Wrigley Field renovation thread

[KBisBack!]

It's actually not too unreasonable that the Ricketts cannot sustain such heavy spending given the revenue generating mechanisms (or lack thereof) and debts/liabilities they inherited from the Tribune.

Sure it is.

Payroll is about $45 million less than what they inherited from the Tribune.

They had no shortage of cash to put down $20 million for the parking lot across the street to build a hotel on.

They had no shortage of cash to build a beer garden in the right field bleachers.

They don't seem to have a problem coming up with $500 million to renovate the ballpark.

They have plenty of cash available when it comes to increasing profits.

Seems like the only time they cry poor is when it comes to increasing wins.

A beautifully crafted PR campaign that far too many people have bought into.

 

[Willrust]

Payroll is about $45 million less than what they inherited from the Tribune.

Or payroll is 10M more than it was in 2006 rather than 40M less than 2011.

They had no shortage of cash to put down $20 million for the parking lot across the street to build a hotel on.

Don't believe this purchase was made as part of the Cub franchise but as a part of the Ricketts family.

They had no shortage of cash to build a beer garden in the right field bleachers.

Not exactly talking about millions of dollars to provide a small amenities upgrade to the ballpark.

They don't seem to have a problem coming up with $500 million to renovate the ballpark.

This money will likely be paid for by the family fortune and used as a way to decrease their tax liability. Money from this will easily be made up through WGN television deal expiration in 2014 and the comcast deal expiration in 2019.

They have plenty of cash available when it comes to increasing profits.

Guess you are completely writing off the 800M that they actually have to pay for the purchase of the franchise.

 

[Flacco4Prez]

Sure it is.

Payroll is about $45 million less than what they inherited from the Tribune.

They had no shortage of cash to put down $20 million for the parking lot across the street to build a hotel on.

They had no shortage of cash to build a beer garden in the right field bleachers.

They don't seem to have a problem coming up with $500 million to renovate the ballpark.

They have plenty of cash available when it comes to increasing profits.

Seems like the only time they cry poor is when it comes to increasing wins.

A beautifully crafted PR campaign that far too many people have bought into.

This is just my own radical theory. But...

What if they made the onfield product better as opposed to all the side show additions to raise revenue? The competitiveness of the ML team will have a larger correlation to revenue than the amount of souvenir shops or parking spaces.

Now that's not to say that these renovations aren't needed but you have to make the team better if you truly want fans to show up

 

[chibears55]

The Cubs have been one of the biggest spenders in baseball over the past decade and now all of a sudden they need a billboard/scoreboard to generate enough money? Please, this is just his way of trying to muscle out the rooftops and make more money in the process.

trying to figure out why people think its wrong for someone to make their home and surroundings better so they can make money off of it..

this is how people make money.. you buy something, you improve it and make money off it..

seriously , i bet most of you that are complaining about what the ricketts are doing to modernize WF and its surrounding, are probably the same ones who complained about how the trib was letting WF fall apart..

 

[Ari Bear]

So today Rickets threatens to leave Wrigley...nice...about time he grew some balls

I say build a new stadium in Rosemont!

 

[Flacco4Prez]

trying to figure out why people think its wrong for someone to make their home and surroundings better so they can make money off of it..

this is how people make money.. you buy something, you improve it and make money off it..

seriously , i bet most of you that are complaining about what the ricketts are doing to modernize WF and its surrounding, are probably the same ones who complained about how the trib was letting WF fall apart..

No I am all for improving and renovating Wrigley as I said. I just mentioned that they would be better off improving the ball club first. The on field quality of the team has a larger factor on income than the off the field quality

 

[Willrust]

Improving Wrigley actually ties to being able to attract free agents without having to overpay by 30-40M (i.e. Soriano)

 

[Boobaby1]

Improving Wrigley actually ties to being able to attract free agents without having to overpay by 30-40M (i.e. Soriano)

So Anaheim is a dump so the Halo's had to overpay Pujols and Hamilton? Yankee Stadium is a dump so they had to overpay A-Rod and all those other guys? Detroit is a dump so they had to overpay Fielder and Cabrera? Philly is a dump and they had to overpay Howard, and......alrighty then.

The Cubs paid market price for Soriano. There were two big-time free agents that year offensively which were obviously Soriano, and also Carlos Lee. Lee signed four days after Soriano to go play in a dump of a stadium in Houston for 6 years (100 mil).

The Cubs took the far superior athlete and top player that year and it cost the Cubs 17 million per year on average. Carlos Lee went roughly for the same amount or about 16.7 million per year.

BTW, Theo already stated that "elite" free agents said they would like to play for the Cubs even now, and if Theo wants "elite" players, he is going to have to pay "elite" money and market value to get them regardless of Wrigley Field renovations or a new park.

 

[KBisBack!]

Payroll is about $45 million less than what they inherited from the Tribune.

Or payroll is 10M more than it was in 2006 rather than 40M less than 2011.

Did the Rickett's own the team in 2006?? No??

Then that point has nothing to do with the Ricketts cutting payroll in the time they have owned the team.

Stay on topic and don't straw man.

They had no shortage of cash to put down $20 million for the parking lot across the street to build a hotel on.

Don't believe this purchase was made as part of the Cub franchise but as a part of the Ricketts family.

And the Ricketts own the team. Same money.

Strawman.

They had no shortage of cash to build a beer garden in the right field bleachers.

Not exactly talking about millions of dollars to provide a small amenities upgrade to the ballpark.

You know the construction cost??

Doesn't change the FACT they had money to spend on increasing profits.

They don't seem to have a problem coming up with $500 million to renovate the ballpark.

This money will likely be paid for by the family fortune and used as a way to decrease their tax liability. Money from this will easily be made up through WGN television deal expiration in 2014 and the comcast deal expiration in 2019.

And being the most profitable team in the league last year should have easily made money available to improve the team this year.

They have plenty of cash available when it comes to increasing profits.

Guess you are completely writing off the 800M that they actually have to pay for the purchase of the franchise.

No I am not.

But if the $564 million they owe to finish paying off the team (not quite $800M is it?) is such a burden like you continually try to make it out to be, another $500M should be impossible to come up with.

I am talking about $40M a year in payroll for the most profitable team in the league that apparently has no problems dishing out another $500M

Your continued attempts at painting the Cubs too poor to spend on the major league roster are ridiculous.

 

[KBisBack!]

Improving Wrigley actually ties to being able to attract free agents without having to overpay by 30-40M (i.e. Soriano)

You are completely making this up and have no actual facts to support your false claim.

Improving the ball club from a 100 loss team actually ties to be able to attract free agents without having to overpay like with Jackson.

 

[Sunbiz1]

I kind of lost interest, but I heard that Ricketts is threatening to move the Cubs out of Chicago (again) if the rooftop owners file a lawsuit that could potentially halt the renovations. Didn't we already go through this song-and-dance a few weeks ago, with Ricketts saying he didn't want to move the Cubs out of Chicago?

It's an empty threat without a viable location.

 

[Willrust]

Did the Rickett's own the team in 2006?? No??

Previous ownership drove up the payroll to increase the franchise' sale price. Did Zell actually pay that bloated payroll, or did he pass it on to the next guy?

And the Ricketts own the team. Same money.

You do realize that it is entirely possible to have 2 distinctly separate companies owned by the same individuals with their own monies to exist at the same time? You don't think that the Steinbrenner's didn't buy up some land around the new Yankee Stadium? Do you really think they tied that directly to the MLB team so that the MLB would have access to those funds as part of the revenue sharing? Or would it make more sense to take those assets away from the baseball side so they don't have to share those revenues?


You know the construction cost??

Of a beer garden. As I said, not exactly millions of dollars there. It was a small cost to boost immediate revenues.

Doesn't change the FACT they had money to spend on increasing profits.

Nobody is disputing this, but the immediate revenues from a beer garden isn't exactly going to allow them to spend an additional 40M on payroll in 2013.

And being the most profitable team in the league last year should have easily made money available to improve the team this year.

According to Forbes. Do you worship Mr. Forbes? Is he infallible? Without seeing the books of all of the baseball teams, those numbers are pure conjecture.

But if the $564 million they owe to finish paying off the team (not quite $800M is it?) is such a burden like you continually try to make it out to be, another $500M should be impossible to come up with.

Cause $564M is such a pittance? The money they are going to use from the renovation will come from all of the family businesses, not just from baseball operations. As I stated before, they will likely use this as a tax reduction measure (or even tax abatement from the city/state) and spread the tax benefit across all of their business interests.

I am talking about $40M a year in payroll for the most profitable team in the league that apparently has no problems dishing out another $500M

And you are missing the entire point. Their payroll went from 96M in 2006 to 144M in 2011, without any significant increase in revenue. That move was made to boost the sale price of the team and the cost was transferred onto the next owner. As to the most profitable team, do you honestly believe that the Cubs were more profitable than the Yankees? Really?

Your continued attempts at painting the Cubs too poor to spend on the major league roster are ridiculous.

Never once have I painted the Cubs too poor. This is the straw-man argument that you refer to. You have so many posts out there and are battling with so many people that you can't keep track of who is saying what. The Ricketts are spending over 800M on the purchase of the Cubs, proposing to spend 500M on renovations, spend between 100M - 144M a year on payroll, spent 20M on an adjacent property, spent millions for a training facility in the DR, spent millions on their Spring Training facility in Arizona; and you are pissing and moaning about them not spending an extra 40M on the payroll. Gotta ask, is your name Veruca Salt by chance?

 

[Willrust]

Boo,

What do Anaheim, Yankee Stadium, Detroit and Philly have that the Cubs don't? Their stadiums aren't dumps. The Cubs talked to Pujols, there are reports online that state this. Why didn't he sign with the Cubs? Could have been because Wrigley is a dump. Can't prove that's the case, can't disprove it either. Cubs reportedly made an offer to Fielder. He turned it down and signed with Detroit. Could have been because Wrigley is a dump. Can't prove that's the case, can't disprove it either. However, I can definitively say that upgrading the facilities in Wrigley certainly wouldn't hurt in attracting free agents.

If you went on a job interview to company A whose building was falling apart, then went on a job interview to company B that had state of the art facilities, would that not at least be in your mind if both companies wanted you? Would you ask for more money from company A to make up for the lack in facilities compared to company B? Hell, wouldn't it send warning signals that company A wouldn't spend the money to upgrade their facilities?

The Cubs didn't pay market value for Soriano, they had to overpay by nearly 30M for him. There were reports, after Soriano signed, that the next highest bid was less than 110M. So either the Cubs had to overpay him to go to Chicago in the first place, or Jim Hendry simply go fleeced that badly by Soriano's agent.

You cannot compare contracts of a guy that got a 6 year deal without a no trade clause to a guy that got an 8 year deal with a no trade clause when there is a 40M difference in total money. You could compare that deal in football, where the contracts aren't guaranteed. But with a baseball contract, Alfonso Soriano will be paid nearly 40M more than Carlos Lee.:gtfo:

 

[KBisBack!]

Never once have I painted the Cubs too poor.

Yes you have, many many times.

You do realize that it is entirely possible to have 2 distinctly separate companies owned by the same individuals with their own monies to exist at the same time?

And where did the money come from to buy the Cubs? Did they win the PowerBall or did they take the money from TDAmeritrade.

Nobody is disputing this, but the immediate revenues from a beer garden isn't exactly going to allow them to spend an additional 40M on payroll in 2013.

They didn't need the Beer Garden when they had a $145M payroll which they had before even constructing the beer garden.

According to Forbes. Do you worship Mr. Forbes? Is he infallible? Without seeing the books of all of the baseball teams, those numbers are pure conjecture.

I dont worship Forbes but I do recognize the fact they are one of the most reputable financial publications around.

Cause $564M is such a pittance? The money they are going to use from the renovation will come from all of the family businesses, not just from baseball operations.

Never said it was a pittance.

But I guess for you it is ok for money from the family businesses to be used to increase profit but not improve the ball team? Got it.

And you are missing the entire point. Their payroll went from 96M in 2006 to 144M in 2011, without any significant increase in revenue. That move was made to boost the sale price of the team and the cost was transferred onto the next owner. As to the most profitable team, do you honestly believe that the Cubs were more profitable than the Yankees? Really?

Not missing the point at all.

You made my point. Payroll was increased by the Tribune and dramatically decreased by the Ricketts. Thanks for agreeing.

I don't know for sure the Cubs weren't more profitable than the Yankees considering the Yankees payroll is nearly double what the Cubs is. So maybe the Yankees were more profitable. You going to split hairs over the Cubs being the second most profitable team?? Yeah you probably will.

 

[KBisBack!]

Yeah, K-Bib seems to miss the big picture of the discussion. He can't differentiate between spending $500M on stadium improvements and signing a middle reliever for $2M.

Yeah you got me.

I miss the entire big picture.

Silly me, wants to see a winning baseball team.

Missed the big picture totally.

Maybe you can fill me in on it please.

 

[KBisBack!]

Can't prove that's the case, can't disprove it either. However, I can definitively say that upgrading the facilities in Wrigley certainly wouldn't hurt in attracting free agents.

You can play in the Taj Mahal, but if you put out a 100 loss team on the field it will be hard to attract free agents without overspending like you constantly whine and cry about.

 

[KBisBack!]

Certainly. Due to the problems he inherited, the Cubs franchise at this point is a bad investment for Ricketts. He is trying to make the franchise a self-sustaining, profitable model. Up to this point, Wrigley Field has been dealt with quick-cash, band-aid solutions. Ricketts is looking for a permanent solution/model. Spending more money on this year's player payroll isn't going to make the Cubs franchise self-sustaining and profitable, and its not even really related to the issue at hand.

You can continue to pour money into an old car to keep it running, but at some point you are going to have to purchase a new car. You are basically criticizing Ricketts for not buying new rims for the old car.

A bad investment???

They have profited tens of millions of dollars a season and have seen the value of the franchise increase almost 50% in three years.

Exactly how is that a bad investment?

The franchise has been a self-sustaining, profitable model for at least a decade now. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have bought the team in the first place. To claim it isn't is extremely ridiculous.

Also he bought the team with FULL knowledge of what needed to be done to the ballpark. It wasn't a surprise or a sudden natural disaster that happened. If fixing up the ballpark was going to cost the team several competitive seasons and such a major priority, first they shouldn't have waited three years to begin the project and second they shouldn't consistently say the goal is to win the World Series. But it works to fool those like yourself.

Exactly how is a Jumbotron and Hotel across the street addressing the structural problems of the ballpark?

You have clearly bought into the PR campaign hook, line and sinker.

I have never once said that Wrigley should not be fixed up, just that it is totally realistic to field a competitive ball team at the same time. The Red Sox did it during their renovations of Fenway Park.

But it is easier for you to get your anger on assuming I have said as much.

 

[KBisBack!]

and has to renovate the stadium and the surrounding area for another $500M.

Nope.

He doesn't HAVE to renovate the surrounding areas or put in a jumbotron or a fancy beer garden in right field.

He is CHOOSING to do that.

You are clearly confusing the bells and whistles with the needed structural improvements to the ballpark.

Thats over $1B in expenses within the first few years of investment...and you laughably point to Ricketts earning "tens of millions of dollars a season". Gee, at that rate he'll recoup his initial investment in about 100 years. Again, you are missing the big picture.

Not missing the big picture at all.

You are totally ignoring the increase in value the franchise has already gained. He can clearly sell the franchise right now for much, much more than he purchased it for just three years ago.

But that is just me not understanding anything about finances.

I thought the whole point of investments was to be able to sell it for more than you bought it for while making money along the way.

Clearly you are happy with the owner making a lot of money while fielding a crap team.

My standards are a tad higher than that.

 

[nwfisch]

nwfisch, please stop thanking my posts. Thank you.

Thanked.

 

[KBisBack!]

I guess...but it would make sense that if he has to make structural improvements to the ballpark, the revenue-generating "add-ons" such as the Jumbotron and beer gardens would be done at the same time to save time & cost. Only an idiot would build a house one room at a time. I'm starting to think perhaps you are that type of person, though.

Either way, you are once again missing the big picture of how much money Ricketts is initially investing into the Cubs franchise.

Yawn.

Not at all.

In fact I pointed out that they knew very well what they were getting themselves into when they bought the franchise and said the goal was to win the World Series every year.

But wouldn't it make sense that if the renovations were so badly needed that you wouldn't wait three years before you start?

Thats all conjecture, and it doesn't really put money in Ricketts' hands. I would think that with the current stadium issues and haggling with the City, the franchise wouldn't be worth nearly as much as soom people seem to think. You are basically saying that after buying a mansion, Ricketts should take out a home equity loan to do the remodeling. Kind of Special person, but par for the course.

It is only conjecture if you are dumb enough to think sports franchise values are going down. The haggling with the City would not have any impact on the value of the franchise. They are either going to get the deal they want or they move to the suburbs and get a free stadium more than likely. Either way, exactly how would that hurt the value of the franchise?

You are basically saying that the Ricketts bought a mansion that needed major remodeling and foundation work but waited three years to address it and should build a swimming pool to pay for the foundation work. Kind of Special person, but par for the course.

This made me LOL...after all the back and forth, its like you retained nothing from the conversation.

Oh well. After all the back and forth, its like you provided nothing to the conversation.