Analysis shows former Blackhawk Steve Montador had CTE

[DMelt36]

Fair enough. I thought the answers thus far have been pretty good.

This place can be surprising sometimes, eh?

I'm interested to hear what TCD says on this subject. You know those Canadians fancy themselves some hockey fights.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

This place can be surprising sometimes, eh?

I'm interested to hear what TCD says on this subject. You know those Canadians fancy themselves some hockey fights.

I hope TCD died in his sleep this afternoon while he was having a dream about me killing him.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Let me put it bluntly:

I like fighting and really don't care about the issues it causes down the road. It entertains me and it's not my brain being turned to mush...

 

[DMelt36]

Let me put it bluntly:

I like fighting and really don't care about the issues it causes down the road. It entertains me and it's not my brain being turned to mush...

I wish more people would be this honest about it. In football, too.

I don't see anything wrong with this thought process, really. To each his own.

 

[HeHateMe]

I think the fighting is important to the game. Not this staged shit because that's like fake wrestling, but the passionate shit where dudes unload on eachother can change momentum pretty quickly and get shit back together. It also sends a message of alphaness that is hard to ignore. Plus, they have helmets. They should probably make the helmets better but i doubt the CTE could actually be linked to a fight here and there. Probably just brains more disposed towards CTE...

 

[ClydeLee]

I don't think hockey fights ACTUALLY protect star players or prevent bad hits from happening.

It just creates a new system of reffing and hockey mindset swapping. Which isn't necissarily a bad thing but a shaky thing for a lot of people playing in the league used to the way things have been. Sure Brandon Bolig may be out of a job, he can try his hand at his bad lifetime acting again, but also I'm not in favor of removing fighting UNTIL Refs have some sense of how to legally control the situations that will arise. And the NHL reffing and punishment system is so awful I practically prefer "players enforce it themselves" until they stop being so stupid in the NHL front office.

Fighting isn't necessary to change momentum, it practically STOPS it more than causes it. Big hits and goals create momentum. When a guy dishes a huge hit and a spark in the team and crowd rises... a lot of times a fight disapates that by stopping NHL play for 3 minutes and the stadium is more silent and dulled after sitting for that time while the Refs carry guys into the box and adjust the time.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Totally trying to be a back seat mod here.

But I think the fighting discussion should be a whole separate thread from the Montador story.

 

[ClydeLee]

I was actually mad about Montador coming back in the game to what seemed too early. It felt like an odd thing even before the game, then he had a couple of decent shifts but another big hit and out concussed again.

If i had the ability to hunt I would look for a thread of that game in this forum... seems to difficult to know how to grasp it though.

 

[Variable]

I think more and more people are coming around to the side that the staged fights where two players agree, typically before a faceoff, that they're going to drop the gloves is just fucking stupid.

But those fights that are spontaneous and develop from a moment of pure hatred for something a player does or says ... those ones I can understand.

I understand them and WHY they want to fight but I don't then take that and stretch it into some half assed belief that it drastically changes the game that's being played. That's the problem with pro fighting arguments. There are soooOOoooo many other things that can and do change or occur over the course of not even a minute of hockey play, a lot of things that nobody has any control over, that whether or not someone fought even a minute or two ago really doesn't even matter anymore.

And the protection myth is just that, a myth. When the enforcers were in their hey day back in the 70s-90s, the game was more violent than it ever was before. Cheap shots, head hits, elbows, blind side hits were rampant. They just weren't called nearly as much as they are today. And players obviously weren't missing as much time as they are now from it with the more we know about head trauma.

Basically, until they get rid of it, it'll be a crutch they use when asked about reffing and penalty calling and the like. Players policing themselves doesn't work. It's just a non-stop cycle of revenge which only creates more problems, that's all it ever is.

 

[DMelt36]

Totally trying to be a back seat mod here.

But I think the fighting discussion should be a whole separate thread from the Montador story.

It's where these types of stories always end up going, right?

 

[DMelt36]

I was actually mad about Montador coming back in the game to what seemed too early. It felt like an odd thing even before the game, then he had a couple of decent shifts but another big hit and out concussed again.

If i had the ability to hunt I would look for a thread of that game in this forum... seems to difficult to know how to grasp it though.

Here: http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/showthread.php/20926-Hawks-Devils-IGT-03-27-2012

 

[ClydeLee]

Here: http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/showthread.php/20926-Hawks-Devils-IGT-03-27-2012

Well that was less than thrilling, it was all Thibault pretty much, then shootout moaning. But after the Carcillo video I figured Montador's death would have more ramifications into what the league is doing for the guys.

But hey, Don Cherry is at least hilarious. Another surprising thing, you can actually show off jumping out of a pool skill AND be good at a sport, maybe Jarron Gilbert was playing the wrong sport.
[video=youtube;TUaE2d9y8PM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUaE2d9y8PM[/video]

 

[LordKOTL]

The thing a lot of people forget is that fighting is already illegal. Making it more illegal won't stop it. The best hockey brawl caught on camera happened in the IIHF World Jr's where fighting is more illegal than in the NHL.

Even with the more modern day knowledge of CTE, it's not going to eliminate fighting. It may lead to a rise of other injuries because of the disconnect between cheap/dangerous play and the punishments for cheap play. I think it's going to take someone ending the career of a player like Eichel, McDavid, Toews, Kane, Crosby, Stamkos, etc. via a cheap play before the leage starts to end careers for ending careers, and I do believe past "lawlessness" served a purpose. Back when real enforcers didn't let things like linesmen holding them back stop them for pummelling someone who went after a teammate, there were a lot less Averys, Cookes, and Torres' in the league. Why? Suspensions don't come with a high dose of pain and sutures.

That being said if the league clamps down more of fighting it ill start to eliminate worthless slugs from the lineup that do nothinbg but fight, but IMHO it's not going to eleiminate the worthless slugs that do nothing but cheapshot until the DoPS starts permabanning these fucktards.

 

[Rex]

died from an undisclosed cause?

Did the coroner just ignore the giant rope around his neck?

 

[TCD]

I hope TCD died in his sleep this afternoon while he was having a dream about me killing him.

Lol. You love the fact that I had my first dream about you when you were fully clothed.


i loved hockey fighting...loved it. And i will contradict myself a lot because i am all for concussion protocol in the nhl but at the same time i love a good hockey fight...when its organic. I never liked pre scripted hockey fighting and you can tell which ones are organic and which ones are scripted. Thats the difference and that is what goes over some peoples heads when you talk about fighting in hockey or any other sport for that matter when physicality and competition levels meet.

My best friend growing up would tape hockey fights. He has vhs tapes full of them still to this day. Best hockey compilation videos ever. I often feel sorry for the newer fans that missed out on the eras of real hockey fighting. There was a unique energy to the games. Those who werent watching at that time wont get it unless they go back and revisit it all. Not saying hockey was better it was just different. Fact..first indoor organized hockey game on record = brawl broke out on the ice. Lol its true and it makes me laugh.

Now i gotta go buy some bags of dicks for myself, grimson and rex. I do have more to say on the topic but bags of dicks is a priority before the chinese get to the store before me.

 

[HeHateMe]

Lol. You love the fact that I had my first dream about you when you were fully clothed.


i loved hockey fighting...loved it. And i will contradict myself a lot because i am all for concussion protocol in the nhl but at the same time i love a good hockey fight...when its organic. I never liked pre scripted hockey fighting and you can tell which ones are organic and which ones are scripted. Thats the difference and that is what goes over some peoples heads when you talk about fighting in hockey or any other sport for that matter when physicality and competition levels meet.

My best friend growing up would tape hockey fights. He has vhs tapes full of them still to this day. Best hockey compilation videos ever. I often feel sorry for the newer fans that missed out on the eras of real hockey fighting. There was a unique energy to the games. Those who werent watching at that time wont get it unless they go back and revisit it all. Not saying hockey was better it was just different. Fact..first indoor organized hockey game on record = brawl broke out on the ice. Lol its true and it makes me laugh.

Now i gotta go buy some bags of dicks for myself, grimson and rex. I do have more to say on the topic but bags of dicks is a priority before the chinese get to the store before me.

I wanna watch those tapes. It will help me expand my hockey knowledge.

 

[TCD]

I wanna watch those tapes. It will help me expand my hockey knowledge.

Lol ill see if he can burn them to disk or digital. Need a good 7 days to watch them all. He was the only guy i knew with a satellite dish and he would spend all night jumping from game to game waiting for fights then tape them. Got annoying sometimes when trying to watch specific games with him but he was a character.

And also i forgot to mention for Dmelt. I dont think its a Canadian hockey fan topic. Hockey fans from the USA are just as romantic when it comes to the fighting eras if not more some times. Can still see it in some of the big hockey markets in the States where brawling style was popular esp Philli and even Chicago. There is a lot of false stereotypes of the canadian hockey fan. I think a hockey fan is a hockey fan no matter the country. We may stake claim to the game as ours but there has never been a canadian hockey fan that i know of who never wants to share the game and the States are a very important country when it comes to the growth of the sport and esp the NHL. We all know that up here. Its the best game on the planet and we want everyone involved. Only difference is when it comes to hockey rinks in Canada they truely are looked at as shrines much like football and baseball fields are looked at down south. They are just the sacred public spaces where people have spent a lot of time. Kind of dumb but kind of cool at the same time

 

[ClydeLee]

I wanna watch those tapes. It will help me expand my hockey knowledge.

There is the internet these days. This is who Montador was as a fighter, he got in there, wasn't particularly a good fighter at all, but was engaged quite a bit and that's gonna have these impacts on many of these players.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/496

[video]http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/57908[/video]

This one is very interesting in hindsight. Carcillo vs Montador in 09.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/63761

 

[Variable]

The thing a lot of people forget is that fighting is already illegal. Making it more illegal won't stop it. The best hockey brawl caught on camera happened in the IIHF World Jr's where fighting is more illegal than in the NHL.

Even with the more modern day knowledge of CTE, it's not going to eliminate fighting. It may lead to a rise of other injuries because of the disconnect between cheap/dangerous play and the punishments for cheap play. I think it's going to take someone ending the career of a player like Eichel, McDavid, Toews, Kane, Crosby, Stamkos, etc. via a cheap play before the leage starts to end careers for ending careers, and I do believe past "lawlessness" served a purpose. Back when real enforcers didn't let things like linesmen holding them back stop them for pummelling someone who went after a teammate, there were a lot less Averys, Cookes, and Torres' in the league. Why? Suspensions don't come with a high dose of pain and sutures.

That being said if the league clamps down more of fighting it ill start to eliminate worthless slugs from the lineup that do nothinbg but fight, but IMHO it's not going to eleiminate the worthless slugs that do nothing but cheapshot until the DoPS starts permabanning these fucktards.

We've talked about this before and it's a problem of culture. Once the league finally stops believing, even as half assed as they do, in players being able to police themselves through fighting, then they can move on. That means whoever fights, whoever drops their gloves to fight, gets thrown out of the game. That's where it has to start. They don't come back in the game and get a suspension. If they do it again, same thing, but suspension is longer.

Lots of plays are "illegal" but there has to be a line drawn in the sand if they want to get serious about it. And fighting has to be looked at differently if that's the case. The league can't say they're taking head trauma seriously but then still allow players to bare knuckle fight each other where the entire objective of the fight is to hit the other guy in the face/head because it helps "police" the game. It's fucking ridiculous logic.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Highly doubt hockey fights are leading to CTE. Do you guys even watch hockey fights?

MAYBE 2 shots even land.

Fighting is entertaining... its not going anywhere.

Get over it or GTFO.

Fans don't give a shit about player's brains after they're done making millions of dollars by choice.