Anyone commit to the Indian?

[BlackHawkPaul]

This is a bit off topic but screw it, I'ma ask it. Why don't they just build big ass arenas? Look at football The Buccaneers stadium seats like 65,000 people. They do have domes in the NFL so it isn't a matter of getting a roof on it. Why not put as assload of seats in a place and make the money on quantity instead of price. Sure a bigger building will require more maintenance but I think the additional seats will make more than the additional maintenance costs.

There just isn't enough interest in certain markets.

Tampa had the Thunderdome for a while, which when switched over to hockey held the largest crowds at 24K.

I believe the Saddledome also has extra seats usually not put into play because they are just horrid.



I just don't see 65K coming out nightly (for 41 home games) to pack any arena. You could argue a few Canadian teams, and maybe the Rangers-- but it just would not happen on a consistent basis.

You'd also have to custom build stadiums to fit the rinks (probably 2 way facilities with basketball). There's no way people would want to fill a football stadium 40+ times a year to see awful sight lines.

 

[supraman]

There just isn't enough interest in certain markets.

Tampa had the Thunderdome for a while, which when switched over to hockey held the largest crowds at 24K.

I believe the Saddledome also has extra seats usually not put into play because they are just horrid.



I just don't see 65K coming out nightly (for 41 home games) to pack any arena. You could argue a few Canadian teams, and maybe the Rangers-- but it just would not happen on a consistent basis.

You'd also have to custom build stadiums to fit the rinks (probably 2 way facilities with basketball). There's no way people would want to fill a football stadium 40+ times a year to see awful sight lines.

Okay maybe not that big but if a team is selling out every night and actually selling it out, not just reporting it, seems like there's more people wanting to go than there are seats, that's money left on the table.

 

[5Minutes4Fighting]

And just think, the $18 mill profit last year would have been $23 mill if not for the Huet contract.



-5Minutes

 

[5Minutes4Fighting]

There is a page with a table. If you click on a category, it ranks the teams. So if you click on "operating income" (i.e. profits) on the far right of the table, you see the Hawks are the 4th most profitable team in the league. Link:

Forbes rankings



What stands out is that Forbes calculates that 16 teams are losing money. That has to mean that the league is going to want to change the CBA to stop the hemorrhaging from the bottom teams. but at the top, there's a number of teams enjoying really nice profits.



E.g.: the Maple Leafs made a $82 mil profit last year (with no playoff games), and the Coyotes lost $20 mill, even though they had home playoff games.



-5Minutes

 

[R K]

Doesn't the current CBA alot for profit sharing? To even out the bottom teams?

 

[E Runs]

Are we sure Rockstar had to borrow because he ran out of cash last year, coulda sworn that was when he first took over.

 

[whalerhawk]

Are we sure Rockstar had to borrow because he ran out of cash last year, coulda sworn that was when he first took over.

I think the Trib article stated that he had to twice go to Wirtz Corp for additional cash to make payroll during the 09-10 season, not when he took over in 07-08.

 

[R K]

I think the Trib article stated that he had to twice go to Wirtz Corp for additional cash to make payroll during the 09-10 season, not when he took over in 07-08.

He definitely had to borrow in 07-08 when he first took over. I can't find the article but it was happening before he arrived. For several seasons.

 

[Rdrhwke]

He definitely had to borrow in 07-08 when he first took over. I can't find the article but it was happening before he arrived. For several seasons.

Here ya go RK.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0730-confidential-hawks-20100730,0,3785092,full.column

 

[memberj]

The Hawks make money. However, there are clever ways to hide it. The Hawks, as an organization, by itself, loose money. However, when you incorporate the fact they own half the building, which you don't have to, and the parking, again, they don't have to, and so on, they make money.

The Blackhawks make no money from parking. Parking revenue goes to the United Center, and the UC does not share that with the Bulls or Hawks.



Unlike concessions, Fandamonium, etc, which goes to the Hawks.

 

[R K]

Red Top parking is owned by the Wirtz corp. Every parking lot surrounding the UC minus ONE. Not sure if you were around when the UC was built but as I explained above it was a HUGE sticking point between Bill and Jerry's conglomeration. Bill won the argument.



Concessions and Fandamonium are split between the Organizations. The Bulls claim their revenue when they are there, while the Hawks claim theirs when they are there. Levy now runs both the Hawks Store and all concessions.



And the UC is 51% owned out right by Wirtz. No question. So that revenue, while not "claimed" by the Hawks is most definitely revenue. Part of the not having to claim it all. Which was NEVER included.

 

[R K]

Here ya go RK.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0730-confidential-hawks-20100730,0,3785092,full.column

Creative Books are something every corporation uses though. It's no surprise to anyone. Merchandising is up some 400%. Or was through out the season last year. How that's calculated who knows. I just know prices will continue to increase.





From the time Rocky has taken over my tickets have gone from 68.50 to 130.00 per seat. That's just under 100%. Any company out there not a Monopoly would never work on that increase in margin over a 3 year period.



Another revenue stream NOT calculated into the Hawks Profit no doubt. Not making money, my ass.



And it's a shame Peter sold Bismark because LEVY SUCKS! The Food sucks, the portions are smaller and EVERYTHING is more expensive.

 

[R K]

Here ya go RK.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0730-confidential-hawks-20100730,0,3785092,full.column

Creative Books are something every corporation uses though. It's no surprise to anyone. Merchandising is up some 400%. Or was through out the season last year. How that's calculated who knows. I just know prices will continue to increase.





From the time Rocky has taken over my tickets have gone from 68.50 to 130.00 per seat. That's just under 100%. Any company out there not a Monopoly would never work on that increase in margin over a 3 year period.

 

[memberj]

Red Top parking is owned by the Wirtz corp. Every parking lot surrounding the UC minus ONE. Not sure if you were around when the UC was built but as I explained above it was a HUGE sticking point between Bill and Jerry's conglomeration. Bill won the argument.



Concessions and Fandamonium are split between the Organizations. The Bulls claim their revenue when they are there, while the Hawks claim theirs when they are there. Levy now runs both the Hawks Store and all concessions.



And the UC is 51% owned out right by Wirtz. No question. So that revenue, while not "claimed" by the Hawks is most definitely revenue. Part of the not having to claim it all. Which was NEVER included.

Ya, I am not sure about Red Top RK, so I cant comment on that, as I am sure your right. But I am positive that LOT C, LOT J, LOT K, and LOT H, all that money goes specifically to the United Center, and not to the Bulls or Hawks...



One thing that hasn't been stated yet is TV contracts. In terms of all the profitability of the teams. Its no secret the NFL, NBA, and MLB team are valued more for one big reason, TV contracts.



If you look at it closely, the teams that make the most money are in big markets and they command huge TV contracts. That is where alot of the money is made.



If Hockey ever gets a big deal with ESPN, every single NHL team value would go up by more than you could imagine. There are many ways to calculate it, but I bet with an ESPN TV agreement, the Blackhawks are worth $400 million dollars or more and there operating income is over $85 million

 

[R K]

Not trying to be argumentative and really it's what Mcdonough is good at. So at this point, winning the Stanley Cup and all his ties to the local media I can not believe they are not making a stream of cash there too now. For years the Old Regime had to pay for coverage of this team. With Advertising now no way is that the same.



You are correct though J that's NOT part of the "Hawks" revenue so to speak, but it most DEFINITELY is part of the "Wirtz" revenue stream. Without question.



While the UC gets credit, it's owned and operated by Wirtz. At least the controlling share. Bill Wirtz was not a dumb man. He knew what he was doing. Unfortunately the team to him was a hobby, where as it's a HUGE stream of revenue to Rocky.



And from what I hear your ESPN theory is not too far from being a fact. Although the NHL is doing everything possible to continue propping up the SHITTY coverage VS gives the NHL.



I'm also torn on how that will effect the NHL. If you look at team "value" from all the professional sports the NFL commands it. One because it's Americas sport. But the top 30 teams, minus 1 or 2, are in fact the NFL. For multiple reasons, and not just TV alone. Hell even the Bills are in there and they've already had two blackouts due to non sellouts that I know of this year. One being while the Hawks were in Buffalo.

 

[memberj]

Not trying to be argumentative and really it's what Mcdonough is good at. So at this point, winning the Stanley Cup and all his ties to the local media I can not believe they are not making a stream of cash there too now. For years the Old Regime had to pay for coverage of this team. With Advertising now no way is that the same.



You are correct though J that's NOT part of the "Hawks" revenue so to speak, but it most DEFINITELY is part of the "Wirtz" revenue stream. Without question.



While the UC gets credit, it's owned and operated by Wirtz. At least the controlling share. Bill Wirtz was not a dumb man. He knew what he was doing. Unfortunately the team to him was a hobby, where as it's a HUGE stream of revenue to Rocky.



And from what I hear your ESPN theory is not too far from being a fact. Although the NHL is doing everything possible to continue propping up the SHITTY coverage VS gives the NHL.

Good point on the whole "Wirtz" revenue stream, it doesn't go under "Blackhawks." What a technicality him and Jerry Reinsdorf have created on that.



i guess the questions is, what is Rocky doing with that "Wirtz" revenue stream? Is he giving it back to the Blackhawks, giving it to Levy and the UC for concerts, maintenance, etc



Who knows.

 

[R K]

No doubt it's going into the Wirtz Corp profits. Which will never be public. So while they cry a river for the "Hawks", they jump behind closed doors in the WIrtz Corp Office and jump for joy while counting the revenue.



It is what it is. But to cry they are losing money, come on. NO way in hell.



Now two days in Vegas at the Bilagio (yes I do know some stuff) must have cost a pretty penny for some 50 people. Flying two plane loads of people to Philly and putting them up at a Hotel for the finals, cost a pretty penny. So to somewhat defend the Organization they are spending a lot more now than in the past. BUT pre Rocky this team always stayed at the best hotels on the road. Example is Philly and the Ritz.





And it's not really "Jerry" as it was Wirtz. Jerry had to gather up a bunch of people as he is not the sole owner of the other 49% by any means. He is "part" of the Board of Governors, or group of folks that own the other 49%. What Wirtz says about the UC goes. No if's, and's, or But's. That's why it was 51% or the UC NEVER would have been built. There is a reason it was called the Building Michael Built. But it never would have happened if Wirtz didn't get exactly what he wanted.

 

[R K]

Also in my life time they are now getting more advertising revenue than ever before. Not sure how that works either. I love that they fly these "corporate sponsors" to road games though. That's quite comical. On the Corporate Charter, in the team hotel. Awesome.

 

[memberj]

No doubt it's going into the Wirtz Corp profits. Which will never be public. So while they cry a river for the "Hawks", they jump behind closed doors in the WIrtz Corp Office.



It is what it is. But to cry they are losing money, come on. NO way in hell.



Now two days in Vegas at the Bilagio (yes I do know some stuff) must have cost a pretty penny for some 50 people. Flying two plane loads of people to Philly and putting them up at a Hotel for the finals, cost a pretty penny. So to somewhat defend the Organization they are spending a lot more now than in the past. BUT pre Rocky this team always stayed at the best hotels on the road. Example is Philly and the Ritz.

Yes, very true. and to the point of spending money. I know the Blackhawks have pretty much doubled their scouting staff (amateur and pro scouts), along with their european scouts, which costs a pretty penny when you think about the pay they command and the travel that goes on.



That is one thing that the Blackhawks have certainly been a lot better at, they know the way to success is through amateur scouting, which is really something that was foreign to the Blackhawks before Rocky took over. Who ever it was who made Rocky commit to paying twice the people to keep the Blackhawks in the top 5 of scouting departments in terms of numbers, i commend them, that can't be cheap.



But of course they are making money, the won the fucking Stanley Cup. My observation why Rocky said all that crap in July was to upset the NHL, its no secret he doesn't like Bettman or the way the NHL runs their business. If people think that Stanley Cup champs are losing money, that makes a pretty big dent in the NHL, and Rocky has enough money to **** with everyone's mind. I honestly think he said he was losing money to **** with the NHL, their sponsors, Again, thats just my theory...

 

[R K]

You could be right. I know him fairly well but probably not as well as Bill or Peter Wirtz because I knew them for years. There is a clear difference between Rocky and Bill though. When you spoke to Bill whether you liked the answers he was giving you or not, you knew that's how he felt about the situation in discussion. When you talk to Rocky you get the feeling he tells you what you want to hear verses how he really feels.



It is what it is. People can get as mad as they like about Mcdonough but it does no good, because Rocky is responsible Johns there and obviously likes the money stream. I am quite sure the rest of the family is not happy about the entire situation though.



As for the Stanley Cup they were long on their way in doing that before Bill Wirtz died. Absolutely no doubt about it. I'm pretty sure Bill Wirtz liked Bettman though because he was and is a pawn for the owners. That's never changed.



Personally I'd like to see Mcdonough and Blunk leave to take control of the NHL. I think they could do some absolutely incredible things for the NHL as a whole. I may not like or respect Mcdonough but there is no doubt he is quite the expert at marketing. I would NEVER work for him but I will give him kudos for that.