Anyone commit to the Indian?

[supraman]

You could be right. I know him fairly well. There is a difference between Rocky and Bill though. When you spoke to Bill whether you liked the answers he was giving you or not, you knew that's how he felt about the situation in discussion. When you talk to Rocky you get the feeling he tells you what you want to hear verses how he really feels.



It is what it is. People can get as mad as they like about Mcdonough because it does no good, because Rocky is responsible he's there. I am quite sure the rest of the family is not happy about the entire situation though.



As for the Stanley Cup they were long on their way in doing that before Bill Wirtz died. Absolutely no doubt about it. I'm pretty sure Bill Wirtz liked Bettman though because he was and is a pawn for the owners. That's never changed.



Personally I'd like to see Mcdonough and Blunk leave to take control of the NHL.

RK let me ask this, do you think Rocky is a good owner?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

RK let me ask this, do you think Rocky is a good owner?

He's better than $ Bill

 

[R K]

The really sad part as this conversation would never be happening on the Official Message Boards. Complete control of content is a wonderful thing I guess. Funny it never worked that way in the past. Hell Wirtzsucks.com existed for years an nothing was ever done to quash it. They didn't care. Now they try to hide anything negative they can. God forbid it ever get's talked about.

 

[R K]

He's better than $ Bill

I don't know about that. Knowing both they have their pros and cons. The team you just watched win the Stanley Cup goes to Bill, not Rocky Stu. NO DOUBT about it.

 

[R K]

RK let me ask this, do you think Rocky is a good owner?

That's a good question. I don't think I can honestly answer it yet. Do I like Rocky, yes. Do I believe he is a good person, yes. Do I believe he is a good business man, yes.



Owner, I'll answer that in a few more years. Luckily Rocky doesn't have the same Loyalty issues Bill did. It was that fault of Bill Wirtz that was what created his bad rep. He was slowly figuring it out. Moving Pulford out of Tallons way was a huge start. And I know for fact that happened at least two seasons before he passed away.

 

[supraman]

I like Rocky but if for only one reason. He put home games on TV. Now RK you couldn't careless since you go to the games anyway. I however live out of state and well having to endure the fucking other teams' announcers is hard. Columbus is the worst in the league, the Red Wing idiots never shut the **** up about the old days. I had to hear those dicks 3 times a year minimum. I can't remember the Nashville guys, I think they are kinda okay. The Yotes were alright since they had Pang at the time and I like Darren Pang. But yeah Columbus and Detroit....I'd rather just mute the fucking game.

 

[JOVE23]

That's a good question. I don't think I can honestly answer it yet. Do I like Rocky, yes. Do I believe he is a good person, yes. Do I believe he is a good business man, yes.



Owner, I'll answer that in a few more years. Luckily Rocky doesn't have the same Loyalty issues Bill did. It was that fault of Bill Wirtz that was what created his bad rep. He was slowly figuring it out. Moving Pulford out of Tallons way was a huge start. And I know for fact that happened at least two seasons before he passed away.

Do you think Bill's reputation would have risen and returned to prominence along with the Hawks' if he hadn't died?

 

[R K]

I like Rocky but if for only one reason. He put home games on TV. Now RK you couldn't careless since you go to the games anyway. I however live out of state and well having to endure the fucking other teams' announcers is hard. Columbus is the worst in the league, the Red Wing idiots never shut the **** up about the old days. I had to hear those dicks 3 times a year minimum. I can't remember the Nashville guys, I think they are kinda okay. The Yotes were alright since they had Pang at the time and I like Darren Pang. But yeah Columbus and Detroit....I'd rather just mute the fucking game.

And I've been slammed for my opinion on that as well. Do I think that helped the fan base, most definitely. Why, because of the GOOD TEAM that WON games. No one wants to watch a loser. Especially on TV. BUT I also think Peter would have done that too. Maybe not as quick as Rocky, but he would have made it happen.



As a whole home games on TV is most definitely a good thing, BUT it didn't seem to effect the fan base in the 80's and 90's when they were a power house. The lines outside the UC often wrapped around the building for the few tickets out of the 16,666 that they had left for sale.



Winning brings fans no matter WHAT!

 

[R K]

Do you think Bill's reputation would have risen and returned to prominence along with the Hawks' if he hadn't died?

Another good question. There was/is sitll a lot of hate for the man. Some very valid, some not so much. The TV issue was probably the biggest but I was ALWAYS told that wasn't Bill, rather it was Arthur. Bill was just honoring his wishes. If my Father told me to do something even if I knew it probably wasn't right, I'd still probably do what my Father requested.



People call him $ Bill and I'm not going to defend him but he DID spend money. Unfortunately his fucked up loyalties spent that money in the wrong ways. Prime example a washed up Gilmour, or a washed up Theo Fluery. He finally figured out they needed to win and the team on the ice is the team Bill Wirtz and Dale Tallon built. At least last years team.





Most would probably be surprise like Rocky Bill Wirtz rarely missed a game until the time his health would not allow him to sit in his seats comfortably. He was behind me just about ever game for years. And in the latter years he was not due to health but his wife Alice was. I can't believe he liked what he saw and eventually it's what cost Pulford his time out the door so to speak.



You guys do realize Bob Pulford is at just about every game. He sits two sections over from me.

 

[JOVE23]

Another good question. There was/is sitll a lot of hate for the man. Some very valid, some not so much. The TV issue was probably the biggest but I was ALWAYS told that wasn't Bill, rather it was Arthur. Bill was just honoring his wishes. If my Father told me to do something even if I knew it probably wasn't right, I'd still probably do what my Father requested.



People call him $ Bill and I'm not going to defend him but he DID spend money. Unfortunately his fucked up loyalties spent that money in the wrong ways. Prime example a washed up Gilmour, or a washed up Theo Fluery. He finally figured out they needed to win and the team on the ice is the team Bill Wirtz and Dale Tallon built. At least last years team.

I always tended to fall in the $BILL SUX camp, but only because I didn't know any better and he seemed to be quite the boogeyman, I think a lot of people are in the same "I don't know enough to know any better but everyone else says he sucks so HE SUCKS!!!11!!" frame of mind. But, what do I know, I've only been to 2 Hawks home games ever

 

[memberj]

I don't know about that. Knowing both they have their pros and cons. The team you just watched win the Stanley Cup goes to Bill, not Rocky Stu. NO DOUBT about it.

RK, no question most credit should go to Bill, I agree with you on that, just because of the talent that was there already absurd. but you have to ask some questions about Rocky and since he has been owner. couple things he did that profoundly changed the way the Blackhawks were run and that helped the perception of the team, and that directly helped luring in big names (and contracts)



Think Brian Campbell..did we over pay for him? Hell ya. Would dollar bill ever pay that much to get him? hell no. Was Soupy key to the Stanley Cup? Yes. Soupy coming to Chicago made the Hawks kinda legit, then they get really good, in 08-09, and the rest is history Does Hossa and Madden come over here before $ bill....... No way, even if they wanted to, they wouldn't pay them.



So, I give Rocky credit for making the making the Blackhawks a destination that players want to com to, I think that gets overlooked.



That wouldn't of happened before, or at least I don't think so, I guess there are many ways to look it though.

 

[supraman]

And I've been slammed for my opinion on that as well. Do I think that helped the fan base, most definitely. Why, because of the GOOD TEAM that WON games. No one wants to watch a loser. Especially on TV. BUT I also think Peter would have done that too. Maybe not as quick as Rocky, but he would have made it happen.



As a whole home games on TV is most definitely a good thing, BUT it didn't seem to effect the fan base in the 80's and 90's when they were a power house. The lines outside the UC often wrapped around the building for the few tickets out of the 16,666 that they had left for sale.



Winning brings fans no matter WHAT!

I will not argue one bit with the fact winning brings fans. I agree completely which is why I don't care for McDonough taking credit for the resurgence in popularity of the hawks. My brother was a die hard hawks fan in the 90s but after awhile he got sick of the front office bullshit and gave up on the team. I think a lot of people did, a new regime came in, the hawks started winning games, people cared.



I might have left Chicago at 13 but I know Chicago loves their sports teams. And how can you not love your home teams that have so much history and tradition. Living in Tampa I compare the Bolts to the Hawks a lot and the Bolts are just so fucking boring in comparison because they don't have a deep history. Same thing with the bears vs bucs, the bears are a founding team, with so many great names to play for them (as did the hawks) the bucs not so much.



My point was all hawks had to do is start winning and people would have pay attention to them McDonough or not.



Also I don't blast you for your view. I don't care for it but understand and respect it.

 

[R K]

I always tended to fall in the $BILL SUX camp, but only because I didn't know any better and he seemed to be quite the boogeyman, I think a lot of people are in the same "I don't know enough to know any better but everyone else says he sucks so HE SUCKS!!!11!!" frame of mind. But, what do I know, I've only been to 3 Hawks home games ever

It's an easy place to be when you don't actually know the man or what he stood for. Everyone always called him Mr. Wirtz, while I called him Bill. I could never figure it out. I think he liked that I spoke my mind. Not that it ever got me anywhere. There was a Bulls game one time where I sat next to him. He put my son and his friend in the front row behind the visitors bench. (right in front of where my current section is at the UC) He asked what I wanted to talk about. My exact words were, "can we talk about home games on TV". He asked me again, haha. So I repeated my question "can we talk about home games on TV". He told me we'd have to stop if I asked it again. It was what it was. I never did get my answer but I already knew it. To Arthur it was to protect my value as a paying season ticket holder. I never got that either.

 

[memberj]

And I've been slammed for my opinion on that as well. Do I think that helped the fan base, most definitely. Why, because of the GOOD TEAM that WON games. No one wants to watch a loser. Especially on TV. BUT I also think Peter would have done that too. Maybe not as quick as Rocky, but he would have made it happen.



As a whole home games on TV is most definitely a good thing, BUT it didn't seem to effect the fan base in the 80's and 90's when they were a power house. The lines outside the UC often wrapped around the building for the few tickets out of the 16,666 that they had left for sale.



Winning brings fans no matter WHAT!

except for the Coyotes and Blue Jackets....lol

 

[supraman]

Another good question. There was/is sitll a lot of hate for the man. Some very valid, some not so much. The TV issue was probably the biggest but I was ALWAYS told that wasn't Bill, rather it was Arthur. Bill was just honoring his wishes. If my Father told me to do something even if I knew it probably wasn't right, I'd still probably do what my Father requested.



People call him $ Bill and I'm not going to defend him but he DID spend money. Unfortunately his fucked up loyalties spent that money in the wrong ways. Prime example a washed up Gilmour, or a washed up Theo Fluery. He finally figured out they needed to win and the team on the ice is the team Bill Wirtz and Dale Tallon built. At least last years team.





Most would probably be surprise like Rocky Bill Wirtz rarely missed a game until the time his health would not allow him to sit in his seats comfortably. He was behind me just about ever game for years. And in the latter years he was not due to health but his wife Alice was. I can't believe he liked what he saw and eventually it's what cost Pulford his time out the door so to speak.



You guys do realize Bob Pulford is at just about every game. He sits two sections over from me.

I heard a story (no link it was a couple years ago) about Bill Wirtz that really changed my view of him. I guess one of the player's children has a health issue that was quite serious. Bill said, take my jet and go wherever you need to go. I have heard on a couple occasions that a lot of the players that played for him respected him.

 

[R K]

RK, no question most credit should go to Bill, I agree with you on that, just because of the talent that was there already absurd. but you have to ask some questions about Rocky and since he has been owner. couple things he did that profoundly changed the way the Blackhawks were run and that helped the perception of the team, and that directly helped luring in big names (and contracts)



Think Brian Campbell..did we over pay for him? Hell ya. Would dollar bill ever pay that much to get him? hell no. Was Soupy key to the Stanley Cup? Yes. Soupy coming to Chicago made the Hawks kinda legit, then they get really good, in 08-09, and the rest is history Does Hossa and Madden come over here before $ bill....... No way, even if they wanted to, they wouldn't pay them.



So, I give Rocky credit for making the making the Blackhawks a destination that players want to com to, I think that gets overlooked.



That wouldn't of happened before, or at least I don't think so, I guess there are many ways to look it though.

I know for a fact Brian Campbell was coming here regardless of Rocky. Before Bill died it was rumored Campbell was coming to Chicago via San Jose where he was going to try and win the Cup. I also have information on this subject that I'm just not willing to share. It would violate some ethics of mine.



They over paid for Huet, which was 100% Mcdonough and 100% not needed. So in that same sentence he allowed Mcdonough to almost **** things up. Blindness some what for not knowing the game.



I do agree he changed the perception but the hate was so bad at that time, anything would have helped. Just like the Death.



Madden might, he didnt make much. Hossa, could be Havlat was already hear making over 5 mil per year.



Going forward J I can't answer that because I don't honestly know or couldn't guess how the Kane/Toews/Keith extensions would have worked. What I do know is most of those guys, older mostly loved Bill Wirtz as a father. That 100% includes Duncan Keith.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Another good question. There was/is sitll a lot of hate for the man. Some very valid, some not so much. The TV issue was probably the biggest but I was ALWAYS told that wasn't Bill, rather it was Arthur. Bill was just honoring his wishes. If my Father told me to do something even if I knew it probably wasn't right, I'd still probably do what my Father requested.



People call him $ Bill and I'm not going to defend him but he DID spend money. Unfortunately his fucked up loyalties spent that money in the wrong ways. Prime example a washed up Gilmour, or a washed up Theo Fluery. He finally figured out they needed to win and the team on the ice is the team Bill Wirtz and Dale Tallon built. At least last years team.





Most would probably be surprise like Rocky Bill Wirtz rarely missed a game until the time his health would not allow him to sit in his seats comfortably. He was behind me just about ever game for years. And in the latter years he was not due to health but his wife Alice was. I can't believe he liked what he saw and eventually it's what cost Pulford his time out the door so to speak.



You guys do realize Bob Pulford is at just about every game. He sits two sections over from me.

I see Pully in the club before games at least 10-20 times a season.



And I agree that Bill did spend money on players. I posted at one time the players payroll from 1987 - 2003, and other than a couple of seasons the team was always in the top 5 and no worse than 11th during that time. Several times in the late 80's and early 90's the top payroll in the league. When they slid down it was only the large markets ahead of them.

 

[supraman]

except for the Coyotes and Blue Jackets....lol

But that ties into my previous post. Those teams don't have hallowed halls and history.



Think about Old Chicago stadium, imagine going ot a game that was the same place Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita took the ice, or Espo, countless other greats. That magical dude. I've been to the UC once and I seen Toews 1st NHL goal but I was in awe of the UC. Where MJ and Pippen dominated the NBA together. Where the likes of JR, Cheli, Shantz, Suter, Sutter, Carney, Weinreich, Belfour all those guys played (I got into hockey, video game at least, when those guys were on the roster) my god it was fucking cool.

 

[R K]

I heard a story (no link it was a couple years ago) about Bill Wirtz that really changed my view of him. I guess one of the player's children has a health issue that was quite serious. Bill said, take my jet and go wherever you need to go. I have heard on a couple occasions that a lot of the players that played for him respected him.

Couple of stories other than the 1980 Olympic win probably never happens without Bill Wirtz.



Bobby Hull was a drunk. He squandered most of his memorabilia over the years. Bill Wirtz secretly bought it all and left it to Bobby in his Will. Which is why Bobby now has his SC Ring from 1961.



Denis Savard was down and out. He needed money badly for something. Bill found out and gave him the cash. Dennis wanted to pay it back and Bill would not hear of it.



Now mention all the HUGE $$'s that went to Charity for mostly children.



Again there were pros and cons. Some valid, some created by pissed off fans that didn't see what they liked. You could say it's some what similar with Mcodnough right now. He mostly shields Rocky though.

 

[R K]

I see Pully in the club before games at least 10-20 times a season.



And I agree that Bill did spend money on players. I posted at one time the players payroll from 1987 - 2003, and other than a couple of seasons the team was always in the top 5 and no worse than 11th during that time. Several times in the late 80's and early 90's the top payroll in the league. When they slid down it was only the large markets ahead of them.

I walk buy him almost every game. He and I never got along. I just went off on him one night. Ended up with a "**** YOU" as usual. Turns out Stan Mikita explained to me one day what I was telling him **** off for was probably one of the only good things Pulford ever did for the Hawks. But as Stan said, he deserved being told **** Off either way.



Was funny hearing that from Stan. Pulford completely fucked Mikita.



Most people don't understand this but the legends didn't hate Bill Wirtz per say, they despised Bob Pulford. Probably because most played against him and then ultimately worked for him. Either way that's often confused amongst fans.