Are bears fans overrating pace?

[Alpha Male]

Point stands. Don't obfuscate. Pace needed to agree to Fox. Pace was an unknown and needed to show humility. That no longer applies.

Do you have proof for that?

 

[bears51/40]

Actually you don't. The bears wisely cut emery lose after a 23-25 record where he hired trestman despite drafting some good players like fuller, alshon, long, leno. The guy they replace him with goes 14-34 and hires a worse coach in fox (dont give me that bs about fox being forced on him) and gets and extension. The bears got a downgrade at gm and bears fans think they got an upgrade.

So let me get straight, GM hires crotchety old defensive coach, has a few losing seasons, fires crotchety old coach but doesn't lose his job, but in some fans minds GM should have also been fired. After FIVE losing seasons in a row I am sure some Rams fans were on the ledge shouting to the heavens after Jeff Fisher was fired...……. Damn You Stan Kroenke for not also firing Les Snead. The learning curve for young GM's is sharp, but there still is one.


For even the best GM's there will be hits and misses...…….Blunders, mistakes, injuries, that is just part of the game for any GM.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I think that's what people without vision say .... surely Pace's below average picks and signings early can be debated to a point.

My argument is that Pace should be judged based on four off-seasons, and you say that I lack vision?

However, he is the youngest GM, surely growth is expected.

I don't understand why his age is relevant.

His RECENT 'moves' sure have a lot to do with his evaluation.

Of course they do. I said as much.

Coupled with the Bears giving Pace full reign as far as his HC, Pace has shown the ability to manipulate the draft to get 'his guy'. If nothing else, he should be respected for putting his sack on the table with all the FA signings this off season.

Find me the post where I've said otherwise.

Personally, I think Pace has done a great job, I think Nagy & Helfritch are going to introduce Chicago & the NFL what an Offense is supposed to be like. And, I can't wait to see the GodFather of Defense plug in his new toys as well as healthy players.

Imagine if you asked me what my overall thought of Pace has been.

 

[Bear Pride]

That sure is a waxy shine on those thoughts.

I just cannot get on board with this "Fox was not Pace's coach" crazy nonsense. Ryan Pace hired John Fox because he believed he was the right coach to hire. Why are we putting some absurd X-Files narrative behind it?!?

"Manipulating the draft to get his guy" is a lovely way to say he will get around to this whole building through the draft thing when he is done throwing picks all over the league to just get his team out of the Division Cellar.

Did he put his sack on the table in Free Agency or just panicked when throwing all those picks away was not working? So now it's time to try throwing sixty million dollars around until someone remembers how to catch a damn ball.

Strangely enough...I think the Lions Fan put it the best. Ryan Pace stumbled hard out of the gate. The hope is he has found his footing and we can go back to enjoying a Bear game again, but until that happens...he is more Boy Blunder than Boy Wonder.

Wow, just wow. I can't believe you are a Bears fan and you say crap like this? Waxy Shine? All I know, I saw Emery miss out on guys like Aaron Donald (one pick before us), while Pace moved up to get Floyd and Trubs, then while everbody thought the Pack fleeced us, Pace moved down in the 2nd and grabbed our stud C in Whitehair.

Oh yeah, Pace fleeced everybody and moved back up into the 2nd and nabbed Miller. No one was expecting that! And you want to call that a waxy shine?

Child please.

 

[Bear Pride]

My argument is that Pace should be judged based on four off-seasons, and you say that I lack vision?

I don't understand why his age is relevant.

Of course they do. I said as much.

Find me the post where I've said otherwise.

Imagine if you asked me what my overall thought of Pace has been.

OK then, sorry to put words in your mouth ... not my intention. My only point is too much attention is paid to his beginning rather than what he's done lately. It wasn't his fault White has been so injured. Everyone thought White was going to be a stud. It wasn't his fault the McKasky's hired Fox.

People also pay too much attention to his 1 year FA deals. Pace HAS built through the draft, he just hasn't had a bunch of picks. Make all you want about some of his 1 year prove it deals. Pace had to fill the roster somehow while turning over the roster.

Let's remember, Hicks and Trevathen were Pace FA's. They are pretty good. I also think that there needs to be some leniency as far as the injuries. The Bears have been decimated with injuries the last two years.

IMO, Pace has done a great job in spite of all that stuff.

 

[Penny Traitor]

Wow, just wow. I can't believe you are a Bears fan and you say crap like this? Waxy Shine? All I know, I saw Emery miss out on guys like Aaron Donald (one pick before us), while Pace moved up to get Floyd and Trubs

Cheap shot at my Fandom aside...Aaron Donald is not a fair comparison only because you will never know for certain Emery would have made that pick, but more importantly Donald has been dominate since Day One. Floyd and Trubisky...not so much.

There is still time for both, but it's a smaller window than you would think. I know QB gets a premium put on it, but trading above yourself is not going to sit right with me until the kid starts scoring at least thirty times a year.

If Trubisky and Floyd can transform into Wentz and Donald very soon I will gladly eat those words, but until then...you are just polishing the apple.

 

[gpphat]

Cheap shot at my Fandom aside...Aaron Donald is not a fair comparison only because you will never know for certain Emery would have made that pick, but more importantly Donald has been dominate since Day One. Floyd and Trubisky...not so much.

There is still time for both, but it's a smaller window than you would think. I know QB gets a premium put on it, but trading above yourself is not going to sit right with me until the kid starts scoring at least thirty times a year.

If Trubisky and Floyd can transform into Wentz and Donald very soon I will gladly eat those words, but until then...you are just polishing the apple.

I didn't get why he would use Pace moving up 1 spot to get Trubisky as some sort of aggressive move that should be praised before the player has produced decent results. Liked that Pace took a QB with his first round pick last year, didn't think it was necessary to give up any draft picks to move up one pick. At this point I don't think Pace is a GM that will build the Super Bowl winning team, but if Trubisky makes a significant jump forward like Goff did I may think differently.

 

[Bear Pride]

I didn't get why he would use Pace moving up 1 spot to get Trubisky as some sort of aggressive move that should be praised before the player has produced decent results. Liked that Pace took a QB with his first round pick last year, didn't think it was necessary to give up any draft picks to move up one pick. At this point I don't think Pace is a GM that will build the Super Bowl winning team, but if Trubisky makes a significant jump forward like Goff did I may think differently.

Well, because he literally quoted my statement of Pace "Manipulating the draft to get his guy". At no point was the performance of said players part of the conversation.

 

[Bear Pride]

That sure is a waxy shine on those thoughts.

I just cannot get on board with this "Fox was not Pace's coach" crazy nonsense. Ryan Pace hired John Fox because he believed he was the right coach to hire. Why are we putting some absurd X-Files narrative behind it?!?

Are you even a Bears fan? Ernie Accorsi was hired as a consultant for the Bears coaching search by the McKaskeys and Phillips. They were interviewing Dan Quinn and Adam Gase as head coaches. Then Fox became available from Denver, and was immediately recommended by Ernie Accorsi because he worked with Fox on the Giants. I thought this was pretty well know my man.

 

[gpphat]

Well, because he literally quoted my statement of Pace "Manipulating the draft to get his guy". At no point was the performance of said players part of the conversation.

moving up from #3 to #2 to take a player that likely wasn't going to be taken with the #2 pick is manipulating the draft? I guess technically you can call it that

 

[Bear Pride]

moving up from #3 to #2 to take a player that likely wasn't going to be taken with the #2 pick is manipulating the draft? I guess technically you can call it that

I like how you guys cherry pick stuff to try to make a point for troll's sake. The point is Pace moves around the draft to get the guys he covets and Emery prayed they would drop to the Bears.

I don't see you pointing out Jordan Howard or Eddie Jackson as late round great picks by Pace. Heck, what about Pace drafting 3 starters with his first 3 picks this year? But no, you want to bring up the Trubisky bullshit again.

Heck, if douche Vu can say we don't know if Emery would take Donald, the we also could say we don't know if someone would trade up for Trubisky, right?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I like how being critical of Pace means that you aren't a true Bears fan.

 

[bears51/40]

moving up from #3 to #2 to take a player that likely wasn't going to be taken with the #2 pick is manipulating the draft? I guess technically you can call it that

Now this is one argument that really can't be proven one way or another. You either believe Trubisky would have been there at #3 or you don't. Pace wanted Mitch, he got his guy and if he does not develop over the next year or two Pace will be looking for another job. I have to give much respect to Pace for putting his Bears career on the line for a QB he believes will be the face of the Bears franchise for years to come.

 

[Bear Pride]

I like how being critical of Pace means that you aren't a true Bears fan.

I didn't say that at all my man. I only expressed my amazement that he could be a Bears fan, but have the bleakest, most negative view of Pace. Like You said, Pace hasn't been perfect, but he's slowly turned over the roster and had great drafts the last couple years. I choose to look at the bright side of that as a Bears fan. Now you're putting words in my mouth.

 

[gpphat]

I like how you guys cherry pick stuff to try to make a point for troll's sake. The point is Pace moves around the draft to get the guys he covets and Emery prayed they would drop to the Bears.

That's great he is moving around to get the players he covets, but until those players produce then that really does mean jack shit.

I don't see you pointing out Jordan Howard or Eddie Jackson as late round great picks by Pace. Heck, what about Pace drafting 3 starters with his first 3 picks this year? But no, you want to bring up the Trubisky bullshit again.

And you conveniently avoid talking about White, Grasu, Langford, Bullard, or Shaheen...and how about we wait until any of the players drafted this year have at least a training camp under their belt before we tout that Pace drafted 3 starters. Remember when White was drafted he was considered a starter too. Pace has plenty of misses and that isn't even talking about his free agents.

Heck, if douche Vu can say we don't know if Emery would take Donald, the we also could say we don't know if someone would trade up for Trubisky, right?

You are right we don't know for sure if someone else would have traded up, but all indications suggest the Bears were the only ones willing to trade up

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/4/28/15474510/mitchell-trubisky-bears-49ers-trade-2017-draft

 

[bears51/40]

I like how being critical of Pace means that you aren't a true Bears fan.

I would not say being critical of Pace makes anyone less of a Bears fan because it is just so damn tough to see how shitty this franchise has been over the last three years and only live on the hope of a better future. That being said I do think Pace has gotten better with every draft.

 

[gpphat]

Now this is one argument that really can't be proven one way or another. You either believe Trubisky would have been there at #3 or you don't. Pace wanted Mitch, he got his guy and if he does not develop over the next year or two Pace will be looking for another job. I have to give much respect to Pace for putting his Bears career on the line for a QB he believes will be the face of the Bears franchise for years to come.

Which is why I said it wasn't likely anyone was trading up to two for Trubisky.

we have reporters saying no one was willing to give up what SF wanted

If Trubisky takes a Goff like jump then trading up for him won't really matter. Even if he flops it won't really matter because Pace didn't give up a ton. But if Trubisky flops people will look at that trade and wonder if it was necessary and his career as a GM will be known for White and this trade and less about Howard

 

[gpphat]

I didn't say that at all my man. I only expressed my amazement that he could be a Bears fan, but have the bleakest, most negative view of Pace. Like You said, Pace hasn't been perfect, but he's slowly turned over the roster and had great drafts the last couple years. I choose to look at the bright side of that as a Bears fan. Now you're putting words in my mouth.

You literally questioned his fandom because of his criticism of Pace.

Wow, just wow. I can't believe you are a Bears fan and you say crap like this? Waxy Shine?

Are you even a Bears fan?

You know you can be a fan of a team and not agree with every single move the front office makes. It doesn't make you less of a fan, just a fan with their own mind.

 

[bears51/40]

Which is why I said it wasn't likely anyone was trading up to two for Trubisky.

we have reporters saying no one was willing to give up what SF wanted

If Trubisky takes a Goff like jump then trading up for him won't really matter. Even if he flops it won't really matter because Pace didn't give up a ton. But if Trubisky flops people will look at that trade and wonder if it was necessary and his career as a GM will be known for White and this trade and less about Howard

And by that same article Rapoport says there was. Only the teams involved really knows what went down that day. Otherwise it's just a he said she said bullshit argument that is old news. If Trubisky flops no one will care because Pace will be out of a job, and it will be up to the next GM to find the right QB for the Bears.

 

[gpphat]

And by that same article Rapoport says there was. Only the teams involved really knows what went down that day. Otherwise it's just a he said she said bullshit argument that is old news. If Trubisky flops no one will care because Pace will be out of a job, and it will be up to the next GM to find the right QB for the Bears.

And Mike Silver said this about what Rapoport said

In terms of what team typically have to give up to move up in the draft I find it very unlikely there were any other serious offers to move up.