Are bears fans overrating pace?

[nc0gnet0]

Why is your chirping done here, you should be on Lions board drinking the playoff koolaid. New coach, wonderful city wonderful tradition:trollbisky:, might even have a running game this year.

By the way you're killing it in that Westworld thread.

Well, only on a Bears forum would quoting the Director/show runner of the show not be sufficient proof.

 

[ijustposthere]

Well, only on a Bears forum would quoting the Director/show runner of the show not be sufficient proof.

The Bar is not the Bears forum.

 

[Porkchop]

Pace's first draft was an aberration, his FA class was even worse. If you don't call that stumbling out of the gate, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not sure you are using the right word to describe Pace's first draft. Aberration is a "departure from the norm", which is technically true, since that draft hasn't held up as well as the one's in 2016 and 2017. If you are trying to describe as a terrible draft, I wouldn't agree. It's not a good one, but landing Amos and Goldman salvaged it somewhat, and made it a mediocre overall draft. As for your FA questions, I'll first say that Pace had made mostly low-risk signings to fill gaps and hold things together while the team is rebuilt through the draft.

Shedding veteran talent, just for the sake of shedding talent makes zero sense. Had they picked up any significant draft value in the process, that would have been one thing, but they didn't. He woefully neglected the O-line in 2016, but had his A$$ saved when Sitton fell into his lap. He did the same last year with the WR core, letting Alshon leave.

So when Pace signs a guy and he doesn't work out, he sucks, but when he signs a guy and he does, he just lucked out?

Also he didn't "let Alshon leave", he offered him more money and Alshon declined to sign for less in Philly.

If shedding veteran talent and doing a "rebuild" (and secretly tanking) as you say was his goal all along, why didn't he trade AJ the year before, and get something in return? But hey, you can always remedy the situation by doubling down on the injury bug and picking up a WR coming off an Achilles injury, for more money than it would have cost you to keep your own talent. You can spin-doctor it all you want, but those are the facts. And then there was the Mike Glennon fiasco.

Again, the Bears offered Alshon more money and he took less to sign with Philly. Seems like you're the one doing the spinning pal.

Sure, you can try to explain away each blunder individually, but when you look at the collective whole, this is a guy that was learning on the job, the proverbial GM with training wheels. The Bears will now be fielding 4 top ten draft picks, all from consecutive years. To date, the biggest contributor of those 4 has been Leonard Floyd, who himself has still missed at least 4 games in each of his seasons. A wide receiver who has managed to play a whopping 5 games in three years, and has managed to find himself on the IR every single effing year, A QB who started 12 games and managed just 7 TD's on 7 interceptions, and cost the Bears a two third round pics, plus a 4th just to move up one spot. Hopefully Smith will turn the tide this year. So yeah, maybe a magic fairy will fly over the Bears and sprinkle a little fairy dust, and Kevin White will magically manage to stay on the field this year, and at least be a serviceable WR, and Floyd (who to date is still the best of the bunch) manages to stay healthy and has a breakout year, Mitch tuns out the franchise QB everyone on this board already claims him to be, and Smith performs at rookie of the year levels. It could happen (cough cough). It is every bit as likely however, that White gets hurt again, or is so far down the depth list that he doesn't see much action, Floyd continues to struggle with his own injury issues, Mitch struggles with the new offense (a year wasted with Fox, this to is on Pace), and Smith, well, Smith just plays as a rookie LB plays, flashes of brilliance sprinkled with rookie mistakes. At best this is a C grade GM for the time being. Yes, he has the potential to turn things around, but he has the equal possibility for it to blow up in his face.

3 of those picks have a total of 34 games between them. I think other than White, you need to pump the brakes on panicking about our 1st rounders.

Also, keeping Fox last year wasn't Pace's fault. How do you figure they lure a good coaching candidate? Trubisky isn't drafted yet, so you're selling this new coach nothing but offensive hopes and dreams, not what is reality. Nagy took the job primarily because of the prospects of molding Trubisky into a star QB. You need to creative incentive to lure desirable coaching candidates or else they won't bite, and investing in the future of the most important position on the team is a huge lure.

 

[nc0gnet0]

I'm not sure you are using the right word to describe Pace's first draft. Aberration is a "departure from the norm", which is technically true, since that draft hasn't held up as well as the one's in 2016 and 2017. If you are trying to describe as a terrible draft, I wouldn't agree. It's not a good one, but landing Amos and Goldman salvaged it somewhat, and made it a mediocre overall draft. As for your FA questions, I'll first say that Pace had made mostly low-risk signings to fill gaps and hold things together while the team is rebuilt through the draft.

missing on a top ten picks can cripple a team, see Cleveland Browns. Goldman is a good pick, but he is what one would expect from a high second rounder, nothing more, nothing less.

So when Pace signs a guy and he doesn't work out, he sucks, but when he signs a guy and he does, he just lucked out?

Also he didn't "let Alshon leave", he offered him more money and Alshon declined to sign for less in Philly.



Again, the Bears offered Alshon more money and he took less to sign with Philly. Seems like you're the one doing the spinning pal.

Your only seeing the handling of Alshon in the last year, and not the two years prior. Yes, most likely so, that because of the way (or perception) of how Alshon was handled the years prior to him leaving for Philly, Alshon already had a bad taste in his mouth, and didn't want anything to do with the Bears. But your mistaken if you think had Pace handled the situation differently(again, the two year prior) that Alshon could have been signed to an extension. But he didn't, he misread the situation, and when Alshon left (something he should have seen coming), he had no plan "b", other than Meredith, and we can no see how much he valued Cam.

3 of those picks have a total of 34 games between them. I think other than White, you need to pump the brakes on panicking about our 1st rounders.

pump the brakes? Where did I call the other three a bust? I merely pointed out that to date, no one can call them success's either? Floyd is a possible exception, the talent is certainly there, but I think most Bears fans are at least concerned about his long term health.

Also, keeping Fox last year wasn't Pace's fault. How do you figure they lure a good coaching candidate? Trubisky isn't drafted yet, so you're selling this new coach nothing but offensive hopes and dreams, not what is reality. Nagy took the job primarily because of the prospects of molding Trubisky into a star QB. You need to creative incentive to lure desirable coaching candidates or else they won't bite, and investing in the future of the most important position on the team is a huge lure.

Now this is a totally BS statement. Keeping Fox last year was 100% on Pace. And having a top 3 draft pick is as about as good a lure for a HC candidate as there is.

Everyone is getting all butt hurt when all I stated was the obvious, Pace stumbled out of the gate. I said he has time to turn things around, but if your rating him as of this moment, he is bottom third.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Your only seeing the handling of Alshon in the last year, and not the two years prior. Yes, most likely so, that because of the way (or perception) of how Alshon was handled the years prior to him leaving for Philly, Alshon already had a bad taste in his mouth, and didn't want anything to do with the Bears. But your mistaken if you think had Pace handled the situation differently(again, the two year prior) that Alshon could have been signed to an extension. But he didn't, he misread the situation, and when Alshon left (something he should have seen coming), he had no plan "b", other than Meredith, and we can no see how much he valued Cam.

Wrong, he made offers to Kenny Stills and Ted Ginn JR, more than what they took to play where they are now.

Everyone is getting all butt hurt when all I stated was the obvious, Pace stumbled out of the gate. I said he has time to turn things around, but if your rating him as of this moment, he is bottom third.

You like to write it that way but nobody butthurt, cept you. Nobody here has been posting knob polishing threads for Pace, you get all bent in these threads...understandable, it's obvious you're trying to deflect your Lions ass-sucking.

No argument he is bottom 3rd, so far his record is squat. Hell of a mess to clean up.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Your only seeing the handling of Alshon in the last year, and not the two years prior. Yes, most likely so, that because of the way (or perception) of how Alshon was handled the years prior to him leaving for Philly, Alshon already had a bad taste in his mouth, and didn't want anything to do with the Bears. But your mistaken if you think had Pace handled the situation differently(again, the two year prior) that Alshon could have been signed to an extension. But he didn't, he misread the situation, and when Alshon left (something he should have seen coming), he had no plan "b", other than Meredith, and we can no see how much he valued Cam.

Wrong, he made offers to Kenny Stills and Ted Ginn JR, more than what they took to play where they are now.

Everyone is getting all butt hurt when all I stated was the obvious, Pace stumbled out of the gate. I said he has time to turn things around, but if your rating him as of this moment, he is bottom third.

You like to write it that way but nobody butthurt, cept you. Nobody here has been posting knob polishing threads for Pace, you get all bent in these threads...understandable, it's obvious you're trying to deflect your Lions ass-sucking.

No argument he is bottom 3rd, so far his record is squat. Hell of a mess to clean up.

LOL, Quinn could lose every game this year, and still not have as many loss's as Pace............

 

[Bearly]

I was going to post but it's just ncog redundancy all over again.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

LOL, Quinn could lose every game this year, and still not have as many loss's as Pace............

LOL What in the fuck are you talking about? Go get laid dude you are fucking lost.

 

[BearFanJohn]

Pace's first draft was an aberration, his FA class was even worse. If you don't call that stumbling out of the gate, I don't know what to tell you. Shedding veteran talent, just for the sake of shedding talent makes zero sense. Had they picked up any significant draft value in the process, that would have been one thing, but they didn't. He woefully neglected the O-line in 2016, but had his A$$ saved when Sitton fell into his lap. He did the same last year with the WR core, letting Alshon leave. If shedding veteran talent and doing a "rebuild" (and secretly tanking) as you say was his goal all along, why didn't he trade AJ the year before, and get something in return? But hey, you can always remedy the situation by doubling down on the injury bug and picking up a WR coming off an Achilles injury, for more money than it would have cost you to keep your own talent. You can spin-doctor it all you want, but those are the facts. And then there was the Mike Glennon fiasco. Sure, you can try to explain away each blunder individually, but when you look at the collective whole, this is a guy that was learning on the job, the proverbial GM with training wheels. The Bears will now be fielding 4 top ten draft picks, all from consecutive years. To date, the biggest contributor of those 4 has been Leonard Floyd, who himself has still missed at least 4 games in each of his seasons. A wide receiver who has managed to play a whopping 5 games in three years, and has managed to find himself on the IR every single effing year, A QB who started 12 games and managed just 7 TD's on 7 interceptions, and cost the Bears a two third round pics, plus a 4th just to move up one spot. Hopefully Smith will turn the tide this year. So yeah, maybe a magic fairy will fly over the Bears and sprinkle a little fairy dust, and Kevin White will magically manage to stay on the field this year, and at least be a serviceable WR, and Floyd (who to date is still the best of the bunch) manages to stay healthy and has a breakout year, Mitch tuns out the franchise QB everyone on this board already claims him to be, and Smith performs at rookie of the year levels. It could happen (cough cough). It is every bit as likely however, that White gets hurt again, or is so far down the depth list that he doesn't see much action, Floyd continues to struggle with his own injury issues, Mitch struggles with the new offense (a year wasted with Fox, this to is on Pace), and Smith, well, Smith just plays as a rookie LB plays, flashes of brilliance sprinkled with rookie mistakes. At best this is a C grade GM for the time being. Yes, he has the potential to turn things around, but he has the equal possibility for it to blow up in his face.

Paragraphs are your friends....

 

[ruprecht]

Paragraphs are your friends....

Swear he's a remy alt

 

[Starion]

That's not what the expectation was last year. They were supposed to field a competitive team heading into this season. and its pace's fault for not firing fox a year earlier when he had a perfect opportunity instead of wasting one year.

Honestly I just wanted to see individual player improvement and maybe Mitch getting his feet wet. Which we did. Defense played great despite being overworked by league last O time of possession.

How many of us bitched at the Bulls for fielding mediocre teams for years without either going for it or tanking? What good would a 7-9 or 8-8 season have done for the rebuild? I'm playing Devil's advocate here a bit on purpose. You can't honestly say that you or most, even many fans had real expectations for playoff last season after 3 wins.

 

[Starion]

Pace's first draft was an aberration, his FA class was even worse. If you don't call that stumbling out of the gate, I don't know what to tell you. Shedding veteran talent, just for the sake of shedding talent makes zero sense. Had they picked up any significant draft value in the process, that would have been one thing, but they didn't. He woefully neglected the O-line in 2016, but had his A$$ saved when Sitton fell into his lap. He did the same last year with the WR core, letting Alshon leave. If shedding veteran talent and doing a "rebuild" (and secretly tanking) as you say was his goal all along, why didn't he trade AJ the year before, and get something in return? But hey, you can always remedy the situation by doubling down on the injury bug and picking up a WR coming off an Achilles injury, for more money than it would have cost you to keep your own talent. You can spin-doctor it all you want, but those are the facts. And then there was the Mike Glennon fiasco. Sure, you can try to explain away each blunder individually, but when you look at the collective whole, this is a guy that was learning on the job, the proverbial GM with training wheels. The Bears will now be fielding 4 top ten draft picks, all from consecutive years. To date, the biggest contributor of those 4 has been Leonard Floyd, who himself has still missed at least 4 games in each of his seasons. A wide receiver who has managed to play a whopping 5 games in three years, and has managed to find himself on the IR every single effing year, A QB who started 12 games and managed just 7 TD's on 7 interceptions, and cost the Bears a two third round pics, plus a 4th just to move up one spot. Hopefully Smith will turn the tide this year. So yeah, maybe a magic fairy will fly over the Bears and sprinkle a little fairy dust, and Kevin White will magically manage to stay on the field this year, and at least be a serviceable WR, and Floyd (who to date is still the best of the bunch) manages to stay healthy and has a breakout year, Mitch tuns out the franchise QB everyone on this board already claims him to be, and Smith performs at rookie of the year levels. It could happen (cough cough). It is every bit as likely however, that White gets hurt again, or is so far down the depth list that he doesn't see much action, Floyd continues to struggle with his own injury issues, Mitch struggles with the new offense (a year wasted with Fox, this to is on Pace), and Smith, well, Smith just plays as a rookie LB plays, flashes of brilliance sprinkled with rookie mistakes. At best this is a C grade GM for the time being. Yes, he has the potential to turn things around, but he has the equal possibility for it to blow up in his face.

umm...You yourself just explained what he did to a T on how a team builds most quickly by tanking dude. Losses = better draft value. Unloading aging vets on big $$ contracts. (Were you shitting on Theo during his first few years with the Cubs? How about after?) Needed another strong offseason and he sure AF GOT IT big time on both ends. Who the hell cares about his FIRST draft when he didn't even have his own scouting dept. in place?

And yeah - let's cherry-pick ONE position he woefully neglected when THE WHOLE ROSTER had holes. Can't fill em all at once dude.

Tell us how an average non-playoff year in '17 would've helped other than a couple feel-good wins that didn't matter a bit in the grand scheme? Those losses weren't likely planned, but benefited the rebuild greatly.

I was on thin ice with your dislike take on all the above, and fell right through with the "letting Alshon leave" crap. Ignorant argument beating a dumb dead horse again. Might as well complain some more about the unneeded "fleecing" from 3 to 2 when zero further trades happened til double digit picks. (oh shit - I looked back at that mess and YOU ACTUALLY WENT THERE!) Gawd.

If there's any "spin-doctoring" it's optimism based on real moves with cautious optimism to a much less extent than the ignorant complete negativity and learned helplessness, poor us, nothing ever works, chapped-ass approach to everything like so many so-called fans...Negative Nancy approach. Enjoy yet another bitch thread if you want.


Nevermind. Post more negative replies if you want, but honestly, it's clearly not worth continued discussion here. Obviously we'll agree to disagree on so many levels. Let's enjoy our summers and root together for Bears > Rodgers in Lameblow.

 

[Starion]

Dammit - so I went back and read the rest...:facepalm: Most of you seem pretty level-headed, which is cool. :yep:

That's Bear fan and not fans then.

How is that the norm? Many are simply willing to let this play out and understand his QB and HC selections need to deliver. Not wanting him gone yet is very different than over rating him. Team under-performed last year by a couple games but that can be directly attributed to the coaching staff. Injuries have been a factor but we had a couple/few games that were very winnable. It was difficult signing WRs and TEs to team that had shitty QBs and didn't like to throw until everyone knew they were going to. Pace shares that responsibility but it's obvious that there's a big change at how O FAs look at this team.

Hopefully it's a blessing in disguise and the earlier draft spots benefit us long term. He's averaged signing 3 new viable starters per FA period, possibly more this year. We could have used more with the team being so shitty, old and injured but if you plan to be sustainable with the draft, you don't want to give too many long term high dollar deals and FA need to want to be here. That's finally changed with our QG and HC. The roster has turned over 95% since Pace got here. If you don't believe it was an intentional rebuild, you're just not paying attention.

The team did under-perform last year and it's directly related to Fox and the QB position which Pace has some responsibility for but I don't think anyone believed Fox was Pace's long term solution to this. Dude is retirement age and hired to eat losses without losing the team. Obviously, not this many but really, that part is immaterial to what comes next.

:yep:

If you criticize Pace, you're labeled a Pace hater and if you praise him you are labeled a Pace fanboy. There is no in between here on this board. It's like people don't realize you can be critical of some of his moves/draft picks, etc and still understand what he is trying to accomplish. He took over in a very tough spot after a decade of poor draft choices and head coaching hires so he probably receives some unfair criticism, but that comes with the job. Bears also haven't seen very good on field results since his hire so that just adds fuel to the fire.

After 4 years, team seems to be moving in the right direction finally.

Seems like that is life in general. Everybody only wants to see in black and white instead of all the colors in between.

^Agree. I'm obviously more on Pace's side, but that's because I like the positives seen more than the misses. Show me a GM that NEVER MISSES and I'll prove you a liar. It's all calculated gambles and selective allocation of limited resources.
ex. Of course White's been a bust so far. Duh. Anything out of him now is freeroll bonus gravy. I'm not counting on that, nor is Pace or Nagy. I don't disagree with your opinion to have zero expectations for White either.
But to keep cherry-picking a few less than stellar moves while calling possible improved outcomes "magic fairy dust" is just blind hatin'. That's stupid and deserves to be called out.

As said, you don't rebuild by overpaying anybody early in a rebuild. Need the flexibility to sign & draft BPA for the right contracts with outs for the misses which he's done. Shame that makes me an "apologist" or knob polisher.

I've already posted I'm putting money on the Bears with no guarantees of success THIS year, but they'll sure as F be better for over a dozen reasons also posted about. Unfort threads drop amongst the disliking and Trolling going on here, which sadly is typical here.

I'm not sure you are using the right word to describe Pace's first draft. Aberration is a "departure from the norm", which is technically true, since that draft hasn't held up as well as the one's in 2016 and 2017. If you are trying to describe as a terrible draft, I wouldn't agree. It's not a good one, but landing Amos and Goldman salvaged it somewhat, and made it a mediocre overall draft. As for your FA questions, I'll first say that Pace had made mostly low-risk signings to fill gaps and hold things together while the team is rebuilt through the draft.




So when Pace signs a guy and he doesn't work out, he sucks, but when he signs a guy and he does, he just lucked out?
...
Also he didn't "let Alshon leave", he offered him more money and Alshon declined to sign for less in Philly.
...
Again, the Bears offered Alshon more money and he took less to sign with Philly. Seems like you're the one doing the spinning pal.
...
3 of those picks have a total of 34 games between them. I think other than White, you need to pump the brakes on panicking about our 1st rounders.

Also, keeping Fox last year wasn't Pace's fault. How do you figure they lure a good coaching candidate? Trubisky isn't drafted yet, so you're selling this new coach nothing but offensive hopes and dreams, not what is reality. Nagy took the job primarily because of the prospects of molding Trubisky into a star QB. You need to creative incentive to lure desirable coaching candidates or else they won't bite, and investing in the future of the most important position on the team is a huge lure.

^ all this.

I was going to post but it's just ncog redundancy all over again.

Yep. Okay I'm done now too.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

umm...You yourself just explained what he did to a T on how a team builds most quickly by tanking dude. Losses = better draft value. Unloading aging vets on big $$ contracts. (Were you shitting on Theo during his first few years with the Cubs? How about after?) Needed another strong offseason and he sure AF GOT IT big time on both ends. Who the hell cares about his FIRST draft when he didn't even have his own scouting dept. in place?

And yeah - let's cherry-pick ONE position he woefully neglected when THE WHOLE ROSTER had holes. Can't fill em all at once dude.

Tell us how an average non-playoff year in '17 would've helped other than a couple feel-good wins that didn't matter a bit in the grand scheme? Those losses weren't likely planned, but benefited the rebuild greatly.

I was on thin ice with your dislike take on all the above, and fell right through with the "letting Alshon leave" crap. Ignorant argument beating a dumb dead horse again. Might as well complain some more about the unneeded "fleecing" from 3 to 2 when zero further trades happened til double digit picks. (oh shit - I looked back at that mess and YOU ACTUALLY WENT THERE!) Gawd.

If there's any "spin-doctoring" it's optimism based on real moves with cautious optimism to a much less extent than the ignorant complete negativity and learned helplessness, poor us, nothing ever works, chapped-ass approach to everything like so many so-called fans...Negative Nancy approach. Enjoy yet another bitch thread if you want.


Nevermind. Post more negative replies if you want, but honestly, it's clearly not worth continued discussion here. Obviously we'll agree to disagree on so many levels. Let's enjoy our summers and root together for Bears > Rodgers in Lameblow.

No, he's a Tigers fan.

 

[Alpha Male]

Honestly I just wanted to see individual player improvement and maybe Mitch getting his feet wet. Which we did. Defense played great despite being overworked by league last O time of possession.

How many of us bitched at the Bulls for fielding mediocre teams for years without either going for it or tanking? What good would a 7-9 or 8-8 season have done for the rebuild? I'm playing Devil's advocate here a bit on purpose. You can't honestly say that you or most, even many fans had real expectations for playoff last season after 3 wins.

Well you werent on this forum then when bears started 3-4 because many of them predicted playoffs. The fizzled out after that.

 

[nc0gnet0]

No, he's a Tigers fan.

Bah, Baseball bores me. Same with Basketball. Watch a little bit of Hockey.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Dammit - so I went back and read the rest...:facepalm: Most of you seem pretty level-headed, which is cool. :yep:




:yep:





^Agree. I'm obviously more on Pace's side, but that's because I like the positives seen more than the misses. Show me a GM that NEVER MISSES and I'll prove you a liar. It's all calculated gambles and selective allocation of limited resources.
ex. Of course White's been a bust so far. Duh. Anything out of him now is freeroll bonus gravy. I'm not counting on that, nor is Pace or Nagy. I don't disagree with your opinion to have zero expectations for White either.
But to keep cherry-picking a few less than stellar moves while calling possible improved outcomes "magic fairy dust" is just blind hatin'. That's stupid and deserves to be called out.

As said, you don't rebuild by overpaying anybody early in a rebuild. Need the flexibility to sign & draft BPA for the right contracts with outs for the misses which he's done. Shame that makes me an "apologist" or knob polisher.

I've already posted I'm putting money on the Bears with no guarantees of success THIS year, but they'll sure as F be better for over a dozen reasons also posted about. Unfort threads drop amongst the disliking and Trolling going on here, which sadly is typical here.



^ all this.



Yep. Okay I'm done now too.

First of all Mike Glennon says hi.............. Yeah, spending 18 mill on him was okie dokey you dope, but spending it on a quality WR, well shit, that would have been wasted money for sure (good lord how stupid can you get).

Second of all, another simpleton that doesn't understand context. The magic fairy dust statement was in relation to all the things I listed happening, which will never happen.

SMDH

 

[Burque]

Why is your chirping done here, you should be on Lions board drinking the playoff koolaid. New coach, wonderful city wonderful tradition:trollbisky:, might even have a running game this year.

By the way you're killing it in that Westworld thread.

This entire post reminds me of an Alanis Morisette song.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[playthrough2001]

I knew when I saw this thread it would be another redundant, moronic take from Alpha Male with a large helping of blather from the other village idiot too.

Can you imagine being a fan of a team that hasn't won a championship since 1957 or a playoff game since 1992 and have the audacity to talk shit on any other team's message board?

 

[Alpha Male]

I knew when I saw this thread it would be another redundant, moronic take from Alpha Male with a large helping of blather from the other village idiot too.

Can you imagine being a fan of a team that hasn't won a championship since 1957 or a playoff game since 1992 and have the audacity to talk shit on any other team's message board?

Bears fans arent so different right?