Article: Whatever happens, the Bears must keep Cutler

[Willis1524]

I'm sorry, what does this prove?

I would say that what xerohour said has more credibility than what run and shoot said.

 

[Willis1524]

These threads are always good time-wasters. One thing I did notice is how the perception of Cutler is always at odds with his performance. I guess thats what irritates me more than anything else.

For instance, some people keep portraying Cutler as this immensely talented QB...all he has to do is "buy in", "receive coaching", etc. and the proverbial switch will be flipped and Cutler will be this awesome QB.

The problem with that theory is that at no point in his career has Cutler been that good, yet its almost sacreligious to propose the completely logical and statistically-proven thought that "Hey, maybe this is as good as it gets with Cutler. He's just an average QB with good physical traits". There is a huge list of NFL QBs who had similar physical gifts to Cutler, but just never put it all together. Cutler is just another mediocre QB in the line of Vinny Testaverdes, Kerry Collins, Drew Bledsoes, etc.

Oh well.

You wouldn't say that Cutler is "immensely talented"? I agree with you about the he just needs to buy in spiel. Pretty sure most players "buy in" at this point. The problem I have is that people say he is just average. I would disagree with that, and would say he may not be Rodgers, but not many people are. Surrounded with the right talent and coaching I believe he could win.

 

[Schmidtaki]

Does that mean he still couldn't throw it away?

Maybe Cutler likes the football and doesn't want to toss it in the trash.

 

[Willis1524]

It depends on what you consider "talent". I would say throwing accurately on a consistent basis is a talent...Cutler doesn't really have this "talent". I think even the subjective "talent" part of Cutler's makeup is overrated, because even these traits (mobility, strong arm) aren't really seen on the field. How often does Cutler evade the rush and run for 8 yards on a 3rd and 7? How many times is Cutler making plays downfield with his arm?

I would say he does both of those better/more than an average QB. But you are right, it would depend on what you consider talent. I just go off of what I see, and I see a talented QB who makes too many mistakes. Also, what "experts" say may tip the talent department also, because most of these experts would say that Cutler is "immensely talented".

 

[Willis1524]

But its not a question of "better", its a question of how often does Cutler use his mobility and strong arm to his advantage. I've seen Cutler run for 1st down only a few times, but every time I was amazed at Cutler's quickness and thought it looked pretty easy...but he doesn't do it often enough.

My bad I misunderstood you. I agree, he definitely doesn't do it enough.

 

[FirstTimer]

This is the angle that people should be taking. Cutler needs to throw the ball away if nothing is there. My problem is with people saying that "he doesnt know how to read a defense" like they would actually know that. Pretty sure he could not have gotten to where he is if he could not read a defense.

This is my issue with Cutler or what I think he doesn't do well. I guess it's sort of like reading a defense but not really.

I posted this a couple months ago

I've posted this before somewhere on this board a while back in a conversation about Grossman. I think him and Cutler have a similar weakness in one area *DISCLAIMER, I am not saying Grossman is as good as Cutler*. Just from my observation of Cutler, how Grossman played, and comparing Cutler to other elite QB's Cutler and Grossman both seemed to have a really tough time or hard time making the anticipatory throw. They were each guys that had to see the throw before they made it. You rarely in my estimation, relative to other upper tie QB's in the NFL, see Cutler anticipate a throw into a window. The route or the guy is there and Cutler rips it. That's what he's best at. That's part of the reason why he's so good in broken play or designed scrambles. More often than not you're not window throwing there, you're seeing the player, the route etc and throwing it without that extra read. Some different things can play into this, such as comfort with and the intelligence of his WR's, but even in Denver Cutler had the same issue. Think about that throw Cutler drilled into the LB last year that he got pissed at Hester on. That should be a ball thrown to the inside window that Hester runs into. Cutler doesn't see that and instead tries to put it on Hester where he was at the moment, not where he would be in 2 seconds. Ironically enough, Hester made the right read on that play.


I think that's part of the reason, in my estimation Cutler played well under Martz and was really coming on a bit before he got hurt. So much of Martz's system isn't so much reading the coverage from an anticipation POV but you go 5 to 7 steps, the safety or LB does this, you hit your back foot and the ball goes to this spot and the WR better damn well be there.

Couple this bad anticipation on Cutler's part with having to play at times 3 on 7 with defensive backs and an iffy OL and it's a recipe for inconsistency and the seen statistical regression.

I'm not saying Cutler's football dumb or even dumb in general, I just think it's a weakness in his game that got exasperated in Chicago.

 

[FirstTimer]

These threads are always good time-wasters. One thing I did notice is how the perception of Cutler is always at odds with his performance. I guess thats what irritates me more than anything else.

For instance, some people keep portraying Cutler as this immensely talented QB...all he has to do is "buy in", "receive coaching", etc. and the proverbial switch will be flipped and Cutler will be this awesome QB.

The problem with that theory is that at no point in his career has Cutler been that good, yet its almost sacreligious to propose the completely logical and statistically-proven thought that "Hey, maybe this is as good as it gets with Cutler. He's just an average QB with good physical traits". There is a huge list of NFL QBs who had similar physical gifts to Cutler, but just never put it all together. Cutler is just another mediocre QB in the line of Vinny Testaverdes, Kerry Collins, Drew Bledsoes, etc.

Oh well.

Which is kind of funny. Yesterday we have ASUIllini mucking up threads talking about how Cutler trusted Martz so much and got better under him..but then Cutler went to Smith and told him not to retain Martz.

Nothing about the situation makes sense.

 

[Willis1524]

This is my issue with Cutler or what I think he doesn't do well. I guess it's sort of like reading a defense but not really.

I posted this a couple months ago

While I would disagree that Cutler doesn't know how to read a defense, look how much thought and effort you put into your post. At least you are backing it up with thoughts, not just throwing random shit together and saying it.

I do agree with how you say they lack the ability for the anticipatory throw, but I wouldn't put that on "can't read a defense" as was stated in this thread by another poster.

 

[FirstTimer]

While I would disagree that Cutler doesn't know how to read a defense, look how much thought and effort you put into your post. At least you are backing it up with thoughts, not just throwing random shit together and saying it.

I do agree with how you say they lack the ability for the anticipatory throw, but I wouldn't put that on "can't read a defense" as was stated in this thread by another poster.

Yeah I kind of said that

 

[Willis1524]

Yeah I kind of said that

Yes you did, good job. That was a very good post whenever you made it.

 

[Run the ball]

For me when a guy makes bad throws/decisions, it points to him not being able to read the D. If it happens once in a while, then you give credit where credit is due(the D), but when it happens fairly often, game awereness and "reading the D" has to come into question.

 

[Willis1524]

For me when a guy makes bad throws/decisions, it points to him not being able to read the D. If it happens once in a while, then you give credit where credit is due(the D), but when it happens fairly often, game awereness and "reading the D" has to come into question.

I would disagree, and say that it has more to do with other circumstances. Overtrusting his ability to make any throw, mixed with a lot of other factors. I think that his 'game awareness' as you put it could be questioned, since he does seem to try to force things in situations where it is in general a bad idea (ie redzone). Has there been any legit reports of people close to the situation questioning his 'football smarts'? None come to mind, in fact the opposite does where all the people that talk about that say he is really smart in that area.

 

[FirstTimer]

I would disagree, and say that it has more to do with other circumstances. Overtrusting his ability to make any throw, mixed with a lot of other factors. I think that his 'game awareness' as you put it could be questioned, since he does seem to try to force things in situations where it is in general a bad idea (ie redzone). Has there been any legit reports of people close to the situation questioning his 'football smarts'? None come to mind, in fact the opposite does where all the people that talk about that say he is really smart in that area.

I think there is a difference in understanding the game schematically and understanding the game in the heat of the moment.

 

[airtime143]

This is my issue with Cutler or what I think he doesn't do well. I guess it's sort of like reading a defense but not really.
...

I liked that the first time you posted it. great summation.

One thing that is left out is his inability to manipulate a defense with his eyes and pump fakes... something the better passers have down pat.
And before anyone pipes up with the bad OL chorus, he was unable to do that in denver when he was sacked 11 times in 600+ pass attempts.

The final few games- especially the final game- of the 2008 season was where Cutler was exposed.
He throws what he sees, and his divisional foes have picked up on that fact.

Physical talent means nothing if the mental aspects of the game are not there. Manning might very well be in the bottom 5% of the league as far as strength and quickness goes- but the position can be played at an insanely high level with bad physical skills and a great football mind.
the other way around never works though.

 

[Schmidtaki]

It seems that Cutler can read the D, he just doesn't care about what his reads are.

The D approve this message!

 

[Run the ball]

I would disagree, and say that it has more to do with other circumstances. Overtrusting his ability to make any throw, mixed with a lot of other factors. I think that his 'game awareness' as you put it could be questioned, since he does seem to try to force things in situations where it is in general a bad idea (ie redzone). Has there been any legit reports of people close to the situation questioning his 'football smarts'? None come to mind, in fact the opposite does where all the people that talk about that say he is really smart in that area.

There's a big difference between gameday and meetings.

 

[Willis1524]

There's a big difference between gameday and meetings.

I agree, that is why I said 'game awareness'. Question that all day.

 

[xer0h0ur]

I'm sorry, what does this prove?

That even when his #1 read was not Marshall and they were open he still decided to not throw it their way because he either didn't trust them to make a contested catch or he flat out didn't trust them at all. This also shows that even in a pinch he knows where players are on the field because he obviously had to locate Marshall after looking down his first read. As someone else pointed out before, Cutler never had a problem with spreading the ball around before till last year with Marshall. If that is not a supreme case of showing confidence AND lack there of in his receivers then I don't know what is.

 

[Run the ball]

That even when his #1 read was not Marshall and they were open he still decided to not throw it their way because he either didn't trust them to make a contested catch or he flat out didn't trust them at all. This also shows that even in a pinch he knows where players are on the field because he obviously had to locate Marshall after looking down his first read. As someone else pointed out before, Cutler never had a problem with spreading the ball around before till last year with Marshall. If that is not a supreme case of showing confidence AND lack there of in his receivers then I don't know what is.

Fair enough, but often on those same plays there's an open guy underneath, that's more of what I believe many of us are talking about.

Trust or no trust, if I was coaching, a throw in double/triple coverage would never be applauded as it is not a good decision IMO.

 

[Willis1524]

Fair enough, but often on those same plays there's an open guy underneath, that's more of what I believe many of us are talking about.

Trust or no trust, if I was coaching, a throw in double/triple coverage would never be applauded as it is not a good decision IMO.

I agree, and I think we are of a similar mind, I am just wording mine poorly.