Iwritecode
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WHAT!?!?!??!? Seriously? This is where we are going to start the conversation from?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/05/0510_massex.html
This.
WHAT!?!?!??!? Seriously? This is where we are going to start the conversation from?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/05/0510_massex.html
Texas "man track" enthusiast Carl E. Baugh claims to have "degrees in theology" as well as advanced degrees in science. Baugh's "man track" claims have been evaluated and refuted on the basis of the physical evidence alone[1,2], but an examination of his claimed credentials is warranted as well, since by claiming them, Baugh has linked their validity to his scientific credibility and integrity. The issue not is whether Baugh should have a particular degree, but whether the claimed degrees are legitimate and have been represented accurately.
Although questions have been raised before about Baugh's science degrees[3] (and will be expanded upon here), even Baugh's claimed theology degrees appear somewhat overstated. The theology degree most frequently claimed by Baugh is a "Doctor of Philosophy in Theology from the California Graduate School of Theology."[4] Baugh described this as an "earned degree" (implying normal course work and graduation); however, attempts to verify the degree from CGST have been unsuccessful,[5] and a former close associate of Baugh's stated that the degree was "not real, but honorary."[6] In any case, the school is not accredited by any national or regional accrediting agency,[7] and evidently has little standing in the academic community (it is not even listed in standard college and graduate school directories).[8]
A December 1986 "vita" by Baugh did not mention the degree from CGST, but did list "1959, Bachelor of Arts, Burton College" and "1983, Master of Arts, Luther Rice in Conjunction with Pacific College of Graduate Studies."[9] I have not been able to verify the existence of Burton College. Luther Rice is an unaccredited seminary in Jacksonville, Florida. A representative from Luther Rice indicated that Baugh graduated in 1984 with an M.A. in "Biblical archaeology...through our Australian extension ...since we don't a degree in that."[10] However, the "Australian extension" appears questionable at best, and is related to Baugh's science degrees as well (explained below).
The specific science degrees claimed by Baugh (or attributed to him) have varied somewhat from account to account[11,12,13,14]. In recent years Baugh has claimed a "Masters Degree in Archaeology from Pacific College" and a "Doctor of Philosophy Degree in Anthropology from College of Advanced Education."[15]
Baugh gave the location of the College of Advanced Education (CAE) as Irving, Texas; however, the Chamber of Commerce, and Department of Taxation, and phone directory in Irving have no record of the school.[16] When pressed by an assistant for the address of CAE, Baugh gave it as "2355 West Pioneer, Irving, TX, 75061" and indicated that its dean was Dr. Don Davis.[17]. The address appears on a small house in Irving, located next to Sherwood Baptist Church, whose pastor is Rev. Don Davis. Davis indicated that CAE is a "missions" school, with no science classes or facilities.[18] The school is not accredited by any national or regional agency, nor certified by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board (which must be obtained to legally grant degrees in Texas). In fact, none of the educational organizations that I contacted had ever heard of the school.[19]
Rev. Davis explained that Baugh's anthropology degree was granted "through" CAE, "under the auspices of Clifford Wilson in Australia."[20] However, the reason for this curious arrangement was not explained, and the connection to Wilson (discussed below) only further undermines the validity of the degree.
A copy of Baugh's CAE "diploma" (furnished by Baugh) indicates that CAE is the "Graduate Division" of International Baptist College (IBC).[21] IBC is incorporated in Missouri (where Baugh lived before coming to Texas); however, the school is not accredited, nor certified to grant degrees in any subject.[22] In fact, IBC appears to be as lacking in science facilities and courses as CAE. When I called IBC in 1986, the man answering the phone stated that IBC is a correspondence school for Bible studies based on cassette tapes by Jerry Falwell.[23] Further, the letterhead of IBC listed Baugh himself as "President."[24] Thus, it appears that Baugh essentially granted himself a science degree from a branch of his own unaccredited Bible school.
Perhaps not surprisingly, Baugh's doctoral "dissertation" is largely a compilation of anti-evolutionary arguments on the origin of man, and includes an extensive section on missions that consists of literature by others which was photocopied and inserted.[25]
Pacific College Incorporated (a.k.a Pacific College of Graduate Studies and Pacific International University)[26], from which Baugh claims a master's degree in archaeology, traces to a small, private, religious school in Australia, whose president is Clifford Wilson.[27] Ian Plimer, a member of the Australian Research Council and professor of geology at Newcastle University, reported that PCI is not accredited or authorized to grant degrees. Plimer stated, "Any degrees from this 'College' are illegal in Australia and are clearly being used fraudulently in the U.S.A.[28]
Clifford Wilson, is--or was--a close associate of Baugh,[29] and evidently was a partner of Baugh in IBC. Wilson's name was listed, along with Baugh's, on the incorporation papers for IBC. Wilson also was originally listed as "Vice President, International Studies" on the letterhead of IBC,[30] and the location of IBC was given as Melbourne, Australia on a metal plaque displayed at Baugh's first "man track" site.[31] Moreover, a recent booklet by Baugh states that Baugh received a Ph.D. in Anthropology from the College of Advanced Education in conjunction with Pacific International University (emphasis added).[32] Thus, all of Baugh's alleged science degrees seem to trace circuitously back to Baugh himself and his partner Wilson--through their own unaccredited religious schools and/or branches of them.
Last, there is no evidence that Baugh has even a undergraduate degree in any field of science.
Not having science degrees is no crime; however, misrepresenting one's credentials is another matter. Baugh's alleged science degrees appear to be as dubious as his "man track" claims, and ought to be of serious concern to his fellow creationists.
Don Patton's Alleged Credentials
Since early 1989, Don Patton, a close associate of Carl Baugh and leader of Metroplex Institute of Origins Science (MIOS) near Dallas, has claimed a Ph.D. (or "Ph.D. candidacy") in geology from Queensland Christian University in Australia.[33] However, QCU is another unaccredited school linked to Clifford Wilson. [34] When questioned about this at a recent MIOS meeting, Patton indicated that he was aware of some problems relating to QCU, and was withdrawing his Ph.D. candidacy.[35]
However, the printed abstracts of the 1989 Bible-Science conference in Dayton, Tennessee (where Patton gave two talks) stated that he was a Ph.D. candidacy in geology, and implied that he has at least four degrees from three separate schools.[36] When I asked Patton for clarification on this during the conference, he stated that he had no degrees, but was about to receive a Ph.D. degree in geology, pending accreditation of QCU, which he assured me was "three days away."[37] Many days have since passed, and Patton still has no valid degree in geology. Nor is the accreditation of QCU imminent. Australian researcher Ian Plimer reported, "PCI, QPU, PCT, and PCGS have no formal curriculum, no classes, no research facilities, no calendar, no campus, and no academic staff....Any Ph.D. or Ph.D. candidacy at QPU by Patton is fraudulent."[38]
With surprising boldness, Carl Baugh recently appeared on a radio talk show in Texas claiming the same degrees discussed above, plus a new "Ph.D. candidacy in paleoanthropology from Pacific College." Baugh complained that critics were now attacking his credentials and those of other fine creationists, including "Dr. Don Patton."[39]
Click here to return to Paluxy home page
REFERENCES
[1] Kuban, Glen J., 1989, "Elongate Dinosaur Tracks," in Dinosaur Tracks and Traces, edited by David D. Gillette and martin G. Lockley, Cambridge University Press, New York, pp. 61- 64. Originally presented in 1986 at the First International Symposium on Dinosaur Tracks and Traces, Albuquerque, NM.
[2] Hastings, Ronnie J. 1988, "Rise and Fall of the Paluxy Mantracks," Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith, J. of the Amer. Scientific Affiliation., Vol. 40, No. 3, pp. 144-155. See the bibliography of this article for numerous other articles regarding Baugh's claims and the Paluxy controversy in general.
[3] Hastings, Ronnie J., Rick Neeley, and John Thomas, "A critical Look at Creationist Credentials," Skeptic, Vol. 3, No. 4, pp. 1, 5.
[4] California Post Secondary Education Commission, Telephone conversation, 8-2-89.
[5] Attorney John Thomas of the North Texas Skeptics twice telephoned the school to request information regarding Baugh's degree from the school, but did not receive any.
[6] Golden, Gayle, 1985, personal communication. Golden was a reporter for the Dallas Morning News and wrote a number of stories on Baugh's alleged finds. She related that an officer of a church in Missouri where Baugh formerly was Pastor stated that Baugh's degree in theology "is not real, but honorary."
[7] The Association of Theological Schools in the U.S. and Canada reported that California School of Theology is licensed in California, but not accredited by ATSUC. Likewise, the Western Association of Colleges and Schools and the Accrediting Association for Bible Colleges reported that CGST is not accredited by their respective agencies, and that they had no record of the school (telephone conversations, August, 1989). Evidently no other agencies are authorized by the U.S. department of Education and Council on Post Secondary Education to grant accreditation to theology schools in California.
[8] The California Graduate School of Theology is not listed in Peterson's Graduate Programs in the Humanities and Social Sciences, Guide to American Graduate Schools, The Gorman Report, Barons Profiles of American Colleges, nor in several other college directories which I consulted.
[9] Baugh, Carl E., 1986, Anthropology and Religious Motivation, "submitted in partial satisfaction...for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Anthropology," College of Advanced Education.
[10] Gooding, Tammy, Luther Rice Seminary, telephone conversation, August 23, 1989.
[11] Bartz, Paul A., 1982, "Paluxy: New Site, New Prints, New Interest," Contrast insert in Bible-Science Newsletter, September, 1982, Vol. 20, No. 9, The article stated that Baugh was "completing his second doctorate in archaeology." Compare references 12 through 14 below.
[12] At the 1983 National Creation Conference in Minneapolis, MN. (recorded on a tape distributed by Baugh entitled Latest Human and Dinosaur Tracks) a man introducing Baugh stated that Baugh "is working on his Master of Science degree in archaeology at Pacific College..." and "...is studying also under Dr. Clifford Wilson to get his doctorate in paleoanthropology. He teaches anthropology at International Baptist College."
[13] Curtis, Tom, "Paluxy Tracks Fuel Man's Origin Debate," Cleburne Times-Review, October 10, 1984, Vol. 74, No. 240, p. 1. The article stated that Baugh had a "master's degree in archaeology" and "is currently pursuing a master's in ancient paleontology."
[14] [Anonymous], "Are They Genuine Or Fabrications??", Somervell Sun, January 14, 1987. The article stated that Baugh had a "Masters in Archaeology, Pacific College in Melbourne, Australia, Ph.D. in anthropology, College of Advanced Education in Irving, Texas, where he studied with mentor, Dr. Clifford Wilson, and, earned doctorate in Theology at the California Graduate School of Theology...."
[15] Baugh, Carl E. and Clifford A. Wilson, 1987, Dinosaur: Scientific Evidence That Dinosaurs and Men Walked Together, Promise Publishing, Orange, CA. Baugh's claimed degrees are listed on the back cover.
[16] Telephone conversations, early 1989.
[17] Person, Kirk, personal correspondence, 1987.
[18] Davis, Don, personal communication, December 31, 1989.
[19] The following agencies indicated that College of Advanced Education was not accredited, and that they had no record of the school: Association of Theological Schools in America, Accrediting Association for Bible Colleges, and North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (covering Missouri). (Telephone conversations, August 1989). The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools also reported that CAE is not accredited (correspondence to John Thomas, June 27, 1989). The Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board indicated that CAE does not a certificate of authority to grant degrees in Texas, and that the same applies to International Baptist College and Pacific College, Inc. (correspondence to John Thomas, May 4, 1989).
[20] Davis, Don, personal communication, December 31, 1989.
[21] Upon request Baugh recently sent a copy of the diploma to John Thomas, president of the North Texas Skeptics. Curiously, the date on the diploma (Dec. 1987) is considerably more recent than the time Baugh began claiming the degree (see ref. 11).
[22] The agencies listed in ref. 16 indicated that International Baptist College is not accredited or certified to grant degrees in Texas (correspondence to John Thomas, June 1989). These agencies related to me that they have no record of IBC at all (Telephone conversations, August 1989)
[23] Telephone conversation, July 5, 1986.
[24] A letter to me from Carl Baugh, dated March 10, 1983, was written on the letterhead of International Baptist College.
[25] Ref. 3, p. 5
[26] Australian paleontologist Ralph E. Molnar reported that Pacific College of Theology was amalgamated with Pacific College of Graduate Studies to form Pacific College Incorporated (personal correspondence, October, 1986). Evidently "Pacific International College" was sometimes used by Baugh as a synonym for Pacific College Inc.
[27] Australian researcher Barry Williams indicated that PCI appears to be a small, private Bible college whose principal officer is Clifford Wilson (correspondence from Barry WIlliams to Ron Hastings, March 30, 1989).
[28] Plimer, Ian, correspondence from Ian Plimer to Ronnie Hastings, March 1989. When Baugh was asked about the questionable status of CAE in Texas (ref. 3), Baugh indicated that he is transferring his credits from CAE to Pacific College. This struck me as a classic case of 'going from the frying pan to the fire.'
[29] Wilson is a well known creationist author, worked alongside Baugh on some Paluxy "man track" excavations, and coauthored a 1987 book with Baugh (ref. 12). Evidently Wilson has done archaeological work, but he does not have a degree in the subject, and his primary field is psycholinguistics.
[30] Immediately under Baugh's name on the letterhead (reference 21) was Wilson's name and title, obscured with "white-out," but clearly visible when held to light.
[31] In 1982 the plaque was mounted on a large rock at the "man track" site, but later was removed (reportedly by Wilson).
[32] Baugh, Carl E., 1989, Panorama of Creation, The Southwest Radio Church, Oklahoma City, OK. The booklet is a compilation of radio broadcasts in which Baugh participated.
[33] Patton made this claim at some MIOS meetings attended by Ron Hastings. A video tape distributed by MIOS in 1989 stated that Patton had a doctorate degree in geology, although MIOS leaders later told Hastings that this was an error, and that they meant to state that Patton was a "Ph.D candidate" (Ron Hastings, communication).
[34] Plimer, Ian, FAX transmission from Australia, August 14, 1989.
[35] Hastings, Ron, personal communication, August 1989.
[36] Bryan '89, National Conference on Biblical Origins, August 10-12, 1989, at Bryan College, Dayton, Tennessee, sponsored by the Bible-Science Association and Bryan College, printed program and abstracts, p. 20. The program stated (misspelling Patton's name): "Mr. Patton received degrees from Florida College, Tampa, Florida, and he also received a degree in Geology from Austin Peay in Tennessee and from Indiana State University. He is in the final step of obtaining his doctoral degree from Queensland University in Australia." The person introducing Patton before his talk corrected the misspelling of Patton's name but not the errors regarding his degrees.
[37] Personal communication, Don Patton, August 12, 1989. Patton made what I consider his most revealing comment when I asked him whether he thought misrepresenting credentials in general was a serious matter. Patton replied that to him it was not, since it is a matter of "buyer beware." (Evidently he considers the public to be "buyers"). Buyer beware indeed!
[38] See reference 34.
[39] Baugh, Carl E., during "Talk Etc." radio program, KCBI, F.M. 90.9, August 16, 1989, with hosts Carl Singer and Johanna Fischer, Criswell Radio Network, Arlington, Texas. On the same program Baugh promoted the "man tracks" and questionable artifacts from what the host inadvertently, but appropriately, called Baugh's "Creative Evidences Museum."
In 1984, Baugh started the Creation Evidence Museum in a double-wide trailer in Glen Rose, Texas, near Dinosaur Valley State Park, to promote creationism.[4] All of the museum exhibits have been strongly criticized as incorrectly identified dinosaur prints, other fossils, or outright forgeries.[9][10] In 2008, a descendant of a family that found many original Paluxy River dinosaur tracks in the 1930s claimed that her grandfather had faked many of them.[11] Others, such as purported dinosaur claws, were identified by University of Texas at Austin paleontologist Wann Langston as crocodile teeth.[12]
Both scientists and creationists have criticized Baugh's claims. In 1982–1984, several scientists, including J.R. Cole, L.R. Godfrey, R.J. Hastings, and S.D. Schafersman, examined Baugh's purported "mantracks" as well as others provided by creationists in the Glen Rose Formation.[12] In the course of the examination "Baugh contradicted his own earlier reports of the locations of key discoveries" and many of the supposed prints "lacked human characteristics."[12] After a three year investigation of the tracks and Baugh's specimens, the scientists concluded there was no evidence of any of Baugh's claims or any "dinosaur-man tracks".[12]
On September 27, 1984, Al West, a Baugh co-worker for two years, who followed the mantrack claims since 1974, and friend of Glen Kuban, publicly announced that Baugh "never had evidence for manprints as claimed.[12] Gayle Golden, writer for The Dallas Morning News, reported that Baugh "paid $10,000 for his Moab skeleton and confirmed that Baugh knew at their purchase that the bones had already been dated at 200-300 years. However Baugh later claimed that the bones were found in Cretaceous deposits."[12]
One of Baugh's more famous claims, aside from the dinosaur tracks, is an alleged out of place artifact of an "18th century miner's hammer" found in million-year-old Ordovician rock (he has also claimed it is in Cretaceous rock) found in 1934 from London, Texas.[18][19] Baugh asserted this as evidence against scientifically known ways that rocks form.[18] However, laboratory tests discounted his claim about the hammer's being formed in the rock.[18][19] J.R. Cole wrote, "The stone concretion is real, and it looks impressive to someone unfamiliar with geological processes. How could a modern artifact be stuck in Ordovician rock? The answer is that the concretion itself is not Ordovician. Minerals in solution can harden around an intrusive object dropped in a crack or simply left on the ground if the source rock (in this case, reportedly Ordovician) is chemically soluble."[20]
In July 2008, Baugh was in contact with Alvis Delk and James Bishop, who claimed to have found a dinosaur-human print fossil.[21] Baugh bought the "fossil" from Delk who used the money to pay his medical bills.[22] On the authenticity of the claims, reporter Bud Kennedy noted, "since no scientists were involved, about all we really know so far is that the museum has a new rock."[23]
Creationist organizations such as Answers in Genesis have criticized Baugh's claims saying he "muddied the water for many Christians. . . . People are being misled."[4] Don Batten, of Creation Ministries International wrote: "Some Christians will try to use Baugh's 'evidences' in witnessing and get 'shot down' by someone who is scientifically literate. The ones witnessed to will thereafter be wary of all creation evidences and even more inclined to dismiss Christians as nut cases not worth listening to."[24] Answers in Genesis (AiG) lists the "Paluxy tracks" as arguments "we think creationists should NOT use" [emphasis in original].[25] Also Answers In Creation reviewed Baugh's museum and concluded "the main artifacts they claim show a young earth reveal that they are deceptions, and in many cases, not even clever ones."[26]
In his 1992 book Panorama of Creation, Baugh claims that a layer of metallic hydrogen surrounded the early earth. Furthermore, he professes that hexagonal water, or, "Creation water" as he calls it, is capable of healing. Such claims have been addressed by scientists as pseudoscience,[8] and his hypotheses and credentials are not accepted in academia.
Baugh has claimed several degrees, at one point professing to earning three doctorates.[27] All three "doctorates" are from unaccredited "schools." One is an honorary "Doctor of Philosophy in Theology" from the non-accredited California Graduate School of Theology. His 1989 "doctorate" and Masters Degree in Archaeology comes from the non-accredited Pacific International University, of which Baugh was the president.[27] His dissertation titled "Academic Justification for Voluntary Inclusion of Scientific Creation in Public Classroom Curricula, Supported by Evidence that Man and Dinosaurs Were Contemporary" was reviewed by Brett Vickers who criticized its "descriptions of his field-work on the Paluxy river 'man-tracks', speculation about Charles Darwin's religious beliefs and phobias, and biblical evidence of Adam's mental excellence."[28] In 2005, Baugh completed a doctorate in Theology from the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University.[29]
This kid is basically just saying the Bible is right and scientists are wrong. Not sure why that's news.
I thought it was pretty common knowledge actually. Something I learned in grade school.
I haven't found anything that quotes this kid saying anything about God or the Bible. (if anybody has these quotes, pleas link them) And I love how some of these people that are using him for their own agenda say, "His IQ is higher than Einstein's" like anybody actually knows what Albert's IQ was. (they don't)
Jacob's primary issue with the big bang is a question of carbon creation and the current accepted age of of our universe/solar system. (he doesn't think 7 billion years is old enough)
“So, um, in the big-bang theory, what they do is, there is this big explosion and there is all this temperature going off and the temperature decreases really rapidly because it’s really big. The other day I calculated, they have this period where they suppose the hydrogen and helium were created, and, um, I don’t care about the hydrogen and helium, but I thought, wouldn’t there have to be some sort of carbon?”
“Otherwise, the carbon would have to be coming out of the stars and hence the Earth, made mostly of carbon, we wouldn’t be here. So I calculated, the time it would take to create 2 percent of the carbon in the universe, it would actually have to be several micro-seconds. Or a couple of nano-seconds, or something like that. An extremely small period of time. Like faster than a snap. That isn’t gonna happen.”
“Because of that,” he continued, “that means that the world would have never been created because none of the carbon would have been given 7 billion years to fuse together. We’d have to be 21 billion years old . . . and that would just screw everything up.” http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011103200369&nclick_check=1
I'm certainly no genuis but it's been pretty obvious to me for a couple of decades now that the current timelines of the creation of the universe, and subsequently our solar system, are wrong (way too short). Jacob will have to prove this, while correcting the remaining errors of General Relativity, if he wants to solve his carbon problem.
Something faith based that was pushed upon us, yes. For young earth faith based folks, nothing is millions of years.
This.
I haven't found anything that quotes this kid saying anything about God or the Bible.
It was a measure of carbon to determine the millions of years?
It was a measure of carbon to determine the millions of years?
I don't know exactly how carbon-based dating works exactly but I think that's basically it.
It was a measure of carbon to determine the millions of years?
Not really.I don't know exactly how carbon-based dating works exactly but I think that's basically it.
Scientifically false.that's what your link said. The issue is that carbon dating is unreliable after a certain point. LIke 50,000 or so years. So they carbon date something that is millions of years old is impossible. There would be no carbon left thanks to decay.
I wish I knew more about this to actually stay in the conversation.
Suffice to say I’m going to believe the scientists that are a lot smarter than I am and know more about dating the age of things than I ever will.
I find it oddly depressing that perhaps the two most proven scientific theories in the brief history if mankind, the Big Bang and [/b]Dinosaurs being millions of years old[/b], are the two ideas that are being disregarded.
I'd link to Neil DeGrasse Tyson's explanation on the Big Bang but I think it would be wasted here.
Sent from MR Phone
Neither proven nor accepted by young earth scientists or even all of old earth scientists (big bang). But if you have links that they are proven, I'd be happy to look.
I wish I knew more about this to actually stay in the conversation.
Suffice to say I’m going to believe the scientists that are a lot smarter than I am and know more about dating the age of things than I ever will.