Bears trade for Claypool

[SugarWalls]

Poles also quite clearly said that getting a QB a WR he trusts was paramount and he did not limit that to via draft as most of the examples of getting a young QB a WR was via trade ie Hopkins with Murray or Diggs with Allen or Hill with Tua. So you are cherry picking part of what Poles said and not looking at everything he said.

If Fields develops in this 1.5 years and he gets let go then it is still a draft pick well spent IMO. What matters would be how Poles replaces him. Obviously the best case is he and Fields blow up and we get him signed to a long term deal but too many variables at this point. All we can do is judge based on the info we have at hand and it is clear the Packers offered a 2nd as well and it is clear that on paper he is a significant upgrade to what we have. It is also clear that Poles clearly talked about getting his young QB a WR he can trust and put no limits on that only being thru the draft.

So it is fine if you don't like the move or the player but there is nothing inconsistent with what Poles said once you actually pay attention to everything he said and not just the parts you like.

Yes exactly this. If fields doesn’t develop then fine, you replace him.

Getting OL and WR isn’t about ‘helping fields.’ It’s about helping the offense. If a new QB gets drafted then guess what, he will need good OL and good weapons to succeed, just like every good qb in the history of the game.

 

[SugarWalls]

But my point is whether or not you want to call it a high 2nd rounder or a mid 2nd rounder you probably could have gotten a similar WR for less before or after this season.

Not in free agency.

It’s entirely possible that one of the round 2 receivers develop into a better player than claypool, but it’s entirely possible it doesn’t work out that way.

The last several WR classes were top notch, and pace passed on them over and over and over again. This years class is weaker at the position though. Poles made a move to get a commodity now, and he can now address the several other weaknesses this team has in a year devoid of WR talent.

 

[SugarWalls]

Agreed. I don’t love or hate the move it’s the timing that’s the biggest problem for me.

What if claypool comes in and balls out the last 4-5 games? Maybe the bears don’t need to significantly add in FA or draft. Just resign Mooney and plan to pay claypool in a year.

If he doesn’t look like he’s going to play well you consider using more capital in FA or draft.

That’s the benefit of having these next games.

 

[SugarWalls]

PFF doesnt have that. Quan led the NFL in run stuffs though which is a tackle that constitues a failure for the O. So for example 1 yard gain on 3rd and 2. Or 2 yard gain on 1st and 10. He also was 1st in passer rating against. Last year he was 1st in TFLs.

Quan has a bad PFF grade because he is feast or famine. If he can run around a block or beat the blocker to the RB then he will make the ball. If they get their hands on him then he cant shed blocks.

Given how bad the DL is in front of him he is not unblocked as much as you would want. Hence why 3T is so important in this D. You need someone to command dpuble teams so that the WILL can flow to the ball.

I don’t have PFF but the eye test tells me he is only average in pass pro.

Running is making a come back it’s still a passing league. I haven’t seen him draping players or batting down passes. His coverage responsibility seems open, and he makes a tackle shortly after. Unfortunately that’s not good enough in this day and age.

 

[Midway Fields]

Now let's go get Moore with that 4th.

Josh Downs but need to move up in the 2nd. Poles’ Tyreek. Great route runner, good hands, elite speed.

 

[remydat]

I don’t have PFF but the eye test tells me he is only average in pass pro.

Running is making a come back it’s still a passing league. I haven’t seen him draping players or batting down passes. His coverage responsibility seems open, and he makes a tackle shortly after. Unfortunately that’s not good enough in this day and age.

PFR and PFF both maintain their own stats and he has been pretty good in both. PFR has him as not giving up a TD the last 3 years and a half years until the Dallas game with a passer rating against below 80.

PFF has him at 2 TDs the last 3 and a half years with passer rating against below 90 all those years.

So inclined to think he is pretty good in coverage.

 

[SugarWalls]

PFR and PFF both maintain their own stats and he has been pretty good in both. PFR has him as not giving up a TD the last 3 years and a half years until the Dallas game with a passer rating against below 80.

PFF has him at 2 TDs the last 3 and a half years with passer rating against below 90 all those years.

So inclined to think he is pretty good in coverage.

Most of the completed passes would be shorter passes in your own territory or at mid field. He could be letting wide open receivers for chunk plays or first downs etc. I’d need a passes defended stat or a PFF coverage stat.

TDs allowed is certainly not enough info here imo.

 

[Burque]

Yep . WR market is shit this year, poles got way ahead of this

So far ahead of it that he doesn't just need a WR to complete a competitive team.

 

[46FEVER]

I keep reading about the wr draft class being weak this year, Im calling bullshitt. There will be several options for wr that can come in and contribute immediately in the 2nd round. Good example Trey Palmer transfer from LSU to Nebraska. Stud.

Instead of focussing on having that stud wr1 Id rather have 4 wr that can play multiple spots and run all the routes.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

I keep reading about the wr draft class being weak this year, Im calling bullshitt. There will be several options for wr that can come in and contribute immediately in the 2nd round. Good example Trey Palmer transfer from LSU to Nebraska. Stud.

Instead of focussing on having that stud wr1 Id rather have 4 wr that can play multiple spots and run all the routes.

I think they say it's a weak class every year compared to the year before after seeing the previous class play well in the league

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

The guy showing the film is dry as fuck, but its a pretty good hype breakdown of Claypool.

 

[Burque]

We have 8 fucking picks dude and 125m. Your argument makes no sense in this context.

Getting a 24 year old WR who has the physical gifts to be a No 1 is not throwing away a pick.

As I keep saying if he works out no one will be mad about it, including me. As I also keep saying I think that he over payed and put himself into an expensive corner that wasn't necessarily required right now.

If the team was built and ready to make a deep playoff run this year with this one missing piece I would be stumping on the other side of this trade.

And just because he has the physical gifts to be a #1 doesn't mean he will be with this team. I am very familiar with a certain WR #1 that had balsa wood legs. So as much as you think it makes sense at least understand how I can be skeptical of it.

 

[remydat]

Most of the completed passes would be shorter passes in your own territory or at mid field. He could be letting wide open receivers for chunk plays or first downs etc. I’d need a passes defended stat or a PFF coverage stat.

TDs allowed is certainly not enough info here imo.

If he were doing that then his passer rating against would be higher. His PFF coverage grade is 44.7. But completion percentage against is 6th best, his passer rating against is 3rd after Dallas, and he has given up 202 coverage yards. That is without zero pass rush.

 

[remydat]

As I keep saying if he works out no one will be mad about it, including me. As I also keep saying I think that he over payed and put himself into an expensive corner that wasn't necessarily required right now.

If the team was built and ready to make a deep playoff run this year with this one missing piece I would be stumping on the other side of this trade.

And just because he has the physical gifts to be a #1 doesn't mean he will be with this team. I am very familiar with a certain WR #1 that had balsa wood legs. So as much as you think it makes sense at least understand how I can be skeptical of it.

With all due respect your logic just doesn't make sense. He didn't trade for a 30 year old WR that he thought was the missing piece to a SB team. He acquired a 24 year old WR that he can reasonably expect to be here for 5 or 6 years. If we don't make a playoff run before then he will be fired most likely.

Claypool is literally younger than VJJ and several other draft picks this year. At 24 he is actually the same age now that Calvin Ridley was during his rookie year as Ridley turned 24 his rookie year.

So using a draft pick to acquire a guy that is still well within the age bracket of a Redshirt Senior is not that much of an overpay especially when other teams also offered a 2nd round pick.

 

[Burque]

With all due respect your logic just doesn't make sense. He didn't trade for a 30 year old WR that he thought was the missing piece to a SB team. He acquired a 24 year old WR that he can reasonably expect to be here for 5 or 6 years. If we don't make a playoff run before then he will be fired most likely.

Claypool is literally younger than VJJ and several other draft picks this year. At 24 he is actually the same age now that Calvin Ridley was during his rookie year as Ridley turned 24 his rookie year.

So using a draft pick to acquire a guy that is still well within the age bracket of a Redshirt Senior is not that much of an overpay especially when other teams also offered a 2nd round pick.

And if he turns out to be mediocre or injury prone then you are just satisfied with sending a 2nd and a bunch of money off simply because they have it?

I understand your stance, and I hope it works out for the Bears I really do, I just don't agree with the line of thinking when you are in the middle of your first year rebuilding. It feels like a reach and an inexperienced GM making a move he didn't need to.

 

[remydat]

And if he turns out to be mediocre or injury prone then you are just satisfied with sending a 2nd and a bunch of money off simply because they have it?

I understand your stance, and I hope it works out for the Bears I really do, I just don't agree with the line of thinking when you are in the middle of your first year rebuilding. It feels like a reach and an inexperienced GM making a move he didn't need to.

That is a risk with any player especially a draft pick that has never played in the NFL. See Kevin White. Claypool at least comes with lower risk because he has already proven he can produce in the NFL and stay relatively healthy.

 

[TL1961]

And if he turns out to be mediocre or injury prone then you are just satisfied with sending a 2nd and a bunch of money off simply because they have it?

I understand your stance, and I hope it works out for the Bears I really do, I just don't agree with the line of thinking when you are in the middle of your first year rebuilding. It feels like a reach and an inexperienced GM making a move he didn't need to.

Oh, here we go!

A GM will be held responsible if a player in the NFL gets injured after that GM acquires him.

So you're suggesting Poles should have saved the 2nd and drafted one of those "sure thing" WRs who are immune to injury?

Good lord, we know you don't like the trade, but for shit's sake, be reasonable.

 

[remydat]

Oh, here we go!

A GM will be held responsible if a player in the NFL gets injured after that GM acquires him.

So you're suggesting Poles should have saved the 2nd a drafted one of those "sure thing" WRs who are immune to injury?

Good lord, we know you don't like the trade, but for shit's sake, be reasonable.

Heard Wolverine and his healing factor is a top WR prospect this year.

 

[Burque]

Oh, here we go!

A GM will be held responsible if a player in the NFL gets injured after that GM acquires him.

So you're suggesting Poles should have saved the 2nd a drafted one of those "sure thing" WRs who are immune to injury?

Good lord, we know you don't like the trade, but for shit's sake, be reasonable.

Well, there is history here. He has been injured already. So yes, it has to be considered.

To go back (again to my original thought) A second was too much, a third was tolerable a 4th was a win. Have I stuttered?

Go look around the Steelers world and see if they are happy getting back their second round pick for no cost and a redo and get back to me.

 

[Burque]

That is a risk with any player especially a draft pick that has never played in the NFL. See Kevin White. Claypool at least comes with lower risk because he has already proven he can produce in the NFL and stay relatively healthy.

He also comes with a higher cost in cap space if he is successful. This is a risk. You have to get that and you think the risk is worth it and I think they should've gone in a different direction based on where the team is at currently. That is our disagreement as I see it. Two points of view that both hope for the move to be successful but I think that if it isn't it puts us back further than taking a chance on drafting a WR in the 2nd next year that is cheap for four years.