Bill Barnwell trashes Bears Oline

[PrideisBears]

I wish people should stop comparing Fields and to Mitch.

Mitch played on a subpar Tar Heels team in the ACC where the only decent team he beat was Florida state. They lost to every other good team they played then lost to Stanford in the sun bowl.

Mitch’s stock randomly rose during the 2016 because of “accuracy and something about your daughter bringing him home or some shit”

Fields played with Ohio state where he dunked on every team that crossed his path, except bama. Unlike Mitch though during fields Sugar bowl game, he actually won against rival and clear surfer Lawrence and the Clemson tigers

Field always has been highly rated since high school. He didn’t need to fool a gm with a shity car

Before Mitch duped Pace his total passing career tds were 41. There are NFL players now who can do that in a single season

Fields had 60 in two years and one year was shorten

Nobody even knew who Mitch was before the draft

NFL players knew who Fields was in high school

Mitch’s favorite meal is a Denny’s grand slam but the plate has to make a smiley face or he can’t eat it

Field enjoys a nice medium rare steak with roasted potatoes and asparagus for his breakfast

A giraffe told Mitch to sit down as this was his year

Fields told a red head he was coming for his job

The only comparable factor is they both were drafted by the bears. If Fields balls out during training camp and preseason Nagy needs to get over his plan

 

[Icculus]

Did you just admit you literally want to bang your mom? Ok Oedipus.

 

[Da Bears Oregon]

I’m confused, is this a o-line or Halle Berry thread? Actually more interested in Halle……

 

[Bearly]

I’m confused, is this a o-line or Halle Berry thread? Actually more interested in Halle……

Feel better?

 

[Da Bears Oregon]

View attachment 12470
Feel better?

No

 

[Leomaz]

I wish people should stop comparing Fields and to Mitch.

Mitch played on a subpar Tar Heels team in the ACC where the only decent team he beat was Florida state. They lost to every other good team they played then lost to Stanford in the sun bowl.

Mitch’s stock randomly rose during the 2016 because of “accuracy and something about your daughter bringing him home or some shit”

Fields played with Ohio state where he dunked on every team that crossed his path, except bama. Unlike Mitch though during fields Sugar bowl game, he actually won against rival and clear surfer Lawrence and the Clemson tigers

Field always has been highly rated since high school. He didn’t need to fool a gm with a shity car

Before Mitch duped Pace his total passing career tds were 41. There are NFL players now who can do that in a single season

Fields had 60 in two years and one year was shorten

Nobody even knew who Mitch was before the draft

NFL players knew who Fields was in high school

Mitch’s favorite meal is a Denny’s grand slam but the plate has to make a smiley face or he can’t eat it

Field enjoys a nice medium rare steak with roasted potatoes and asparagus for his breakfast

A giraffe told Mitch to sit down as this was his year

Fields told a red head he was coming for his job

The only comparable factor is they both were drafted by the bears. If Fields balls out during training camp and preseason Nagy needs to get over his plan

You wish people would stop comparing the two and then gave a list comparing the two?
the least you could do is heed your own words.

 

[Bearly]

I wish people should stop comparing Fields and to Mitch.

Mitch played on a subpar Tar Heels team in the ACC where the only decent team he beat was Florida state. They lost to every other good team they played then lost to Stanford in the sun bowl.

Mitch’s stock randomly rose during the 2016 because of “accuracy and something about your daughter bringing him home or some shit”

Fields played with Ohio state where he dunked on every team that crossed his path, except bama. Unlike Mitch though during fields Sugar bowl game, he actually won against rival and clear surfer Lawrence and the Clemson tigers

Field always has been highly rated since high school. He didn’t need to fool a gm with a shity car

Before Mitch duped Pace his total passing career tds were 41. There are NFL players now who can do that in a single season

Fields had 60 in two years and one year was shorten

Nobody even knew who Mitch was before the draft

NFL players knew who Fields was in high school

Mitch’s favorite meal is a Denny’s grand slam but the plate has to make a smiley face or he can’t eat it

Field enjoys a nice medium rare steak with roasted potatoes and asparagus for his breakfast

A giraffe told Mitch to sit down as this was his year

Fields told a red head he was coming for his job

The only comparable factor is they both were drafted by the bears. If Fields balls out during training camp and preseason Nagy needs to get over his plan

Fields is vegan.

 

[Pegger]

I do think Fields has some clean up to do in the fumbling department, but that's not related to the OL.

Looking at his throwing motion in the wind up his elbow is a bit higher than the hand and he can also hang behind his head a bit. I know he's moving into villian territory here, but here's Simms talking a bit about Fields mechanics:

Simms has concerns about Fields' throwing motion

Chris Simms and Mike Florio debate whether there's much NFL teams can take away from Justin Fields' second Pro Day at Ohio State.

www.nbcsports.com

BTW, I've seen that elbow higher than the hand before:

Wentz has had a lot of fumbles in his career (58 in 68 games!). I know for a fact that throwing motion when defenders are lurking can spell trouble.

I'd add, it's not all throwing motion for Fields. He also has smaller hands (9 1/8 inches). When comparing to other QBs that 16% percentile (to explain, the higher the percentile, the better, for example he's 98 percentile for 40 time).

Here's some other QBs:

• Carson Wentz = 10 inches
• Russell Wilson = 10 1/4 inches
• Kyler Murray = 9 1/2 inches
• Lamar Jackson = 9 1/2 inches
• Tua Tagovailoa = 10 inches
• Drew Brees = 10 1/4 inches
• Dak Prescott = 10 7/8 inches

It should be noted that Joe Burrow has 9 inch hands, but then again as a rookie in 10 games he had 9 fumbles, so it's not optimal.

Finally we have to remember that a college ball (D1) is slightly smaller (1/2" in length and 1" circumference) than an NFL ball. This is consistent for all players, but ultimately it can impact his ability to maintain grip on the ball especially with defenders lurking.

Anyway, I'm not saying he won't succeed and that he's a fumbling machine, just when you combine his mechanics + hand size + the ball being a bit bigger he could have issues.

 

[Pegger]

I do think Fields has some clean up to do in the fumbling department, but that's not related to the OL.

Looking at his throwing motion in the wind up his elbow is a bit higher than the hand and he can also hang behind his head a bit. I know he's moving into villian territory here, but here's Simms talking a bit about Fields mechanics:

Simms has concerns about Fields' throwing motion

Chris Simms and Mike Florio debate whether there's much NFL teams can take away from Justin Fields' second Pro Day at Ohio State.

www.nbcsports.com

BTW, I've seen that elbow higher than the hand before:

Wentz has had a lot of fumbles in his career (58 in 68 games!). I know for a fact that throwing motion when defenders are lurking can spell trouble.

I'd add, it's not all throwing motion for Fields. He also has smaller hands (9 1/8 inches). When comparing to other QBs that 16% percentile (to explain, the higher the percentile, the better, for example he's 98 percentile for 40 time).

Here's some other QBs:

• Carson Wentz = 10 inches
• Russell Wilson = 10 1/4 inches
• Kyler Murray = 9 1/2 inches
• Lamar Jackson = 9 1/2 inches
• Tua Tagovailoa = 10 inches
• Drew Brees = 10 1/4 inches
• Dak Prescott = 10 7/8 inches

It should be noted that Joe Burrow has 9 inch hands, but then again as a rookie in 10 games he had 9 fumbles, so it's not optimal.

Finally we have to remember that a college ball (D1) is slightly smaller (1/2" in length and 1" circumference) than an NFL ball. This is consistent for all players, but ultimately it can impact his ability to maintain grip on the ball especially with defenders lurking.

Anyway, I'm not saying he won't succeed and that he's a fumbling machine, just when you combine his mechanics + hand size + the ball being a bit bigger he could have issues.

That's right! I'm quoting my own post!!!

It took me a while to find the info, but in the last two years (22 games) he had 12 fumbles. Although it's a lower rate than Wentz/Burrow it still is way to high considering Ohio State normally had a lead, were the better team and most of the pass rushers faced were not NFL caliber.

 

[Milky]

That's right! I'm quoting my own post!!!

It took me a while to find the info, but in the last two years (22 games) he had 12 fumbles. Although it's a lower rate than Wentz/Burrow it still is way to high considering Ohio State normally had a lead, were the better team and most of the pass rushers faced were not NFL caliber.

So NDSU (the DIV I Bama) and National Champion LSU Tigers didn’t play with a lead much?

 

[Canth]

That's right! I'm quoting my own post!!!

It took me a while to find the info, but in the last two years (22 games) he had 12 fumbles. Although it's a lower rate than Wentz/Burrow it still is way to high considering Ohio State normally had a lead, were the better team and most of the pass rushers faced were not NFL caliber.

The stats I found was that he had 12 total in college (1 was at Georgia), losing 5 (all 5 lost were in 2019). He only had 2 fumbles in 2020. So, there was definitely a concern about his fumbling in 2019. It appears that he worked on ball security and it was not really an issue in 2020. He also ran the ball more in 2019, but I would say he was more effective as a runner in 2020. Overall, I cannot say that I am really worried about turnovers in general with Fields. I am sure there will be some, but he had never been a turnover machine and he appears to learn from his mistakes.

Justin Fields Football Statistics | The Football Database

View the most current football statistics for Justin Fields, Quarterback, for the at The Football Database

www.footballdb.com

 

[Pegger]

The stats I found was that he had 12 total in college (1 was at Georgia), losing 5 (all 5 lost were in 2019). He only had 2 fumbles in 2020. So, there was definitely a concern about his fumbling in 2019. It appears that he worked on ball security and it was not really an issue in 2020. He also ran the ball more in 2019, but I would say he was more effective as a runner in 2020. Overall, I cannot say that I am really worried about turnovers in general with Fields. I am sure there will be some, but he had never been a turnover machine and he appears to learn from his mistakes.

Justin Fields Football Statistics | The Football Database

View the most current football statistics for Justin Fields, Quarterback, for the at The Football Database

www.footballdb.com

I was operating off of Dane Brugler's draft breakdown for the stats. The weakness part reads:

WEAKNESSES: Undeveloped field vision…locks onto his preferred read and doesn’t consistently find his second and third options (sometimes by design)…needs to be quicker eliminating things post-snap…stares down reads and doesn’t play with a consistent sense of urgency…needs to be better taking what the defense gives him instead of forcing throws…his passes lose life when attempting to throw off-balance…ball security needs work: holds the ball loose in the pocket and as a runner (12 fumbles over the last two seasons)…needs to do a better job of avoiding hits…benefited from an all-star cast around him (both players and play-calling).

With that being said, looking at the season stats you provided let's break down his fumble per pass attempt + rush.

2018: 1 fumble/(39 attempts + 42 rushes) = 1.23%
2019: 9 fumbles/(354 attempts + 137 rushes) = 1.83%
2020: 2 fumbles/(225 attempts + 81 rushes) = 0.65%

So it did come down in 2020, but you'd have to look through the schedule and know things were COVID adjusted. At the end of the year they were 7-1. They did play a COVID stripped Clemson and them Bama, but there were also some lay ups.

Anyway, fumbling is also something that's hard to avoid. I know Tiki Barber changed the way he carried the ball, but that was a fundamental change that he did. When I look at Fields' current arm motion from Bears camp and know he's got smaller hands for the position it's hard to deny that that creates a larger chance to fumble.

 

[Pegger]

So NDSU (the DIV I Bama) and National Champion LSU Tigers didn’t play with a lead much?

They also played with a lead, so we can draw some apples to apples type comparisons. Where I referenced both Wentz and Burrow is because they have shown to fumble more than normal in the pros. Wentz largely because of his arm motion and Burrow might be due to his smaller hands (not sure, haven't dug into that one).

All I was saying is when a team is up the game script calls for less risky passing plays or less passes overall. We can take other high profile, typically leading teams and look at how many fumbles their QBs had, but I think we'll have the same conclusions in that Fields college career had more than normal amount of fumbles.

I hope this is coming across as me being objective. I like Fields and hope he does succeed. All I'm saying is when I see a history of fumbling, add in an arm motion that's fumble prone and smaller hands there's a chance he fumbles more in the pros. He and the coaches will have to be mindful of that so it doesn't hurt the team (or his development).

 

[Montucky]

They also played with a lead, so we can draw some apples to apples type comparisons. All I was saying is when a team is up the game script calls for less risky passing plays or less passes overall. We can take other high profile, typically leading teams and look at how many fumbles their QBs had, but I think we'll have the same conclusions in that Fields college career had more than normal amount of fumbles.

I hope this is coming across as me being objective. I like Fields and hope he does succeed. All I'm saying is when I see a history of fumbling, add in an arm motion that's fumble prone and smaller hands there's a chance he fumbles more in the pros. He and the coaches will have to be mindful of that so it doesn't hurt the team (or his development).

Ohio State (and Justin Fields) struggled mightily against Northwestern and Indiana. They won through sheer talent and speed, like Ohio State always does when a Big Ten team gives them a real fight, but he was not just waltzing to easy wins against his hapless competition.

 

[Canth]

Ohio State (and Justin Fields) struggled mightily against Northwestern and Indiana. They won through sheer talent and speed, like Ohio State always does when a Big Ten team gives them a real fight, but he was not just waltzing to easy wins against his hapless competition.

Fields himself has already admitted to pressing and trying to force the ball too much vs Indiana. Indiana was actually a really good defense in 2020. So, it was a good experience and one that he can learn from - and it helps when you can still win in spite of that.

And Northwestern coaches themselves pointed out that Fields appeared to be playing with some sort of hand injury that limited him in that game. Again, I think if anything, this is another data point that shows Fields' toughness. And his team obviously still found a way to win with their rushing attack.

 

[Pegger]

Ohio State (and Justin Fields) struggled mightily against Northwestern and Indiana. They won through sheer talent and speed, like Ohio State always does when a Big Ten team gives them a real fight, but he was not just waltzing to easy wins against his hapless competition.

Yep. Fields passing line for both games:

Northwestern - 12/27, 114 yards passing, 2 Ints, 0 TDs, 1 fumble
Indiana - 18-30, 300 yards, 2 TDs, 3 Ints, 0 fumbles

 

[abegibronlives]

Barnwell predicted Fields could break single season fumble record partially because bears oline on paper is worst of the bunch.

I guess I don't get that the Bears are getting trashed when they've actually made moves to try to improve the oline whereas Pittsburgh seemingly gets a pass when that oline is far and away the worst in the league on paper and has got worse at every single spot across the line. Most people are even projecting a huge year from Najee as if that oline is a non factor.

Fortunately, predictions don't have anything to do with final results.

Who had Bucks-Suns in the NBA finals?

 

[remydat]

Fortunately, predictions don't have anything to do with final results.

Who had Bucks-Suns in the NBA finals?

I did actually. At least at start of playoffs. Obviously not before the season.

 

[Montucky]

Fields himself has already admitted to pressing and trying to force the ball too much vs Indiana. Indiana was actually a really good defense in 2020. So, it was a good experience and one that he can learn from - and it helps when you can still win in spite of that.

And Northwestern coaches themselves pointed out that Fields appeared to be playing with some sort of hand injury that limited him in that game. Again, I think if anything, this is another data point that shows Fields' toughness. And his team obviously still found a way to win with their rushing attack.

I actually think it doesn't help that he won those games despite his play being awful. In the NFL it will be very seldom that he'll be able to play that poorly and get bailed out by the fact that the Bears (of all teams) are just overwhelmingly more talented at every position than their opponent.