Bill Walton: Don't Trade Noah For Anthony

[Lefty]

Look, I'm not going to spell it all out for you, but the inclusion of "the debate" is merely a set up to show how his method avoids many of the issues surrounding the debate and thus attempts to decide it. Otherwise, if he was just content with saying "there IS debate", there wouldn't be much more article left to write, would there? Now, like so many idiots before you, you're grasping at straws in an effort to hold on to some semblance of your argument, and I find it particularly funny.

 

[zack54attack]

fight to the death..

 

[Shakes]

Meh life's to short to get caught up on a guy who isn't even on the team, I wasted too much time posting on Ben Gordon topics last year, I think I'll let other people worry about Carmelo and I'll care if and when he's on the Bulls.

 

[pinkizdead]

if it was just giving up noah/deng, i would do it. but giving up noah and deng, puts us in a terrible situation in terms of our cap with no clear way to improve.

i'm assuming all our draft picks would be sent to denver, so we wouldn't have a good chance of drafting a center in the next couple years. FA's would probably choose miami over us for a MLE deal. We wont have enough under the cap to sign anyone straight up. All of our tradeable assets should be gone with the departure of deng and noah.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

At least, through Lefty's rants, he tries to be logical and make sense (even though much of the time, he does not.

Some of the people here believe that the Bulls should make the trade simply because Carmelo Anthony is the better player. That logic is incredibly flawed and makes no sense.

I've at least acknowledged that I can see how it could ultimately help the Bulls, and I've acknowledged that it could hurt the Bulls (in the long haul). Maybe even a combination of both.

One thing I'm fairly certain about is that the trade would make the Bulls a worse team as of right now. But I can definitely see where Lefty is coming from about not wanted to go into cap hell into the future (not saying that Lefty hasn't contradicted himself numerous times, because he has).

If I had to make that trade, I probably wouldn't. But I actually have an open-minded/moreorless moderate stance on this compared to most people in here. So I don't understand why I'm getting so much hate pointed my way.

 

[Lefty]

A moron who has fallen in love with a pretty damn good player who isn't near the level of the game's greats, all because he's very loud in being pretty damn good? Beg pardon, but that sounds like Lefty (moron) and Carmelo Anthony.

Please.

if it was just giving up noah/deng, i would do it. but giving up noah and deng, puts us in a terrible situation in terms of our cap with no clear way to improve.

No, it doesn't.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

By the way, I've heard a lot of dense arguments for and against a Noah+Deng-for-Anthony trade.

i.e.

'Melo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Noah' ur dumb if u wuldnt do it cuz it makes u in the finals'

and

'Noah is sooo energetic and all he does is hustle!!! Melo iz a lozer who is much worse den Bron n Kobe so we need Noah cuz he likes 2 win!!!!!'

 

[Lefty]

At least, through Lefty's rants, he tries to be logical and make sense (even though much of the time, he does not.

Some of the people here believe that the Bulls should make the trade simply because Carmelo Anthony is the better player. That logic is incredibly flawed and makes no sense.

I've at least acknowledged that I can see how it could ultimately help the Bulls, and I've acknowledged that it could hurt the Bulls (in the long haul). Maybe even a combination of both.

One thing I'm fairly certain about is that the trade would make the Bulls a worse team as of right now. But I can definitely see where Lefty is coming from about not wanted to go into cap hell into the future (not saying that Lefty hasn't contradicted himself numerous times, because he has).

If I had to make that trade, I probably wouldn't. But I actually have an open-minded/moreorless moderate stance on this compared to most people in here. So I don't understand why I'm getting so much hate pointed my way.

I love how the incredible idiots here routinely say "lefty's wrong" or "lefty's the idiot" or, like you, the king of all the motherfucking retards on this board, say "lefty has contradicted himself", all without offering up a shred of proof about anything. Otherwise you have no basis to be making these claims, and really just look like the group of motherfucking idiots you are that can't deal with being wrong and having to reconcile their beliefs and wants with reality.

 

[Lefty]

Meh life's to short to get caught up on a guy who isn't even on the team, I wasted too much time posting on Ben Gordon topics last year, I think I'll let other people worry about Carmelo and I'll care if and when he's on the Bulls.

I will accept your white flag. Now go pretend you know something somewhere else, please and thank you.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Lefty, you don't even acknowledge that you haven't "proven" that the Bulls doing 'x' would be greater than them doing 'y.'

You are so pompous that you actually believe you have proven a fact when you have not.

 

[Lefty]

Lefty, you don't even acknowledge that you haven't "proven" that the Bulls doing 'x' would be greater than them doing 'y.'

You are so pompous that you actually believe you have proven a fact when you have not.

No, I have. He asked me to make a case for Melo's efficiency going up with decreased usage, and I made such a case, using an article that shows such a relationship to be real and tangible. He tried to bluster at first, then admitted defeat, because he knew I was right; I had proved something. And also, just because you are incapable of comprehending exactly how the idea of Melo to the Bulls should be heavily supported, it doesn't mean dick about my overall point and its merit, just you and your abilities at comprehension.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

No, I have. He asked me to make a case for Melo's efficiency going up with decreased usage, and I made such a case, using an article that shows such a relationship to be real and tangible. He tried to bluster at first, then admitted defeat, because he knew I was right; I had proved something. And also, just because you are incapable of comprehending exactly how the idea of Melo to the Bulls should be heavily supported, it doesn't mean dick about my overall point and its merit, just you and your abilities at comprehension.

That analysis isn't necessaily true or proven. In theory, if a player gets less shot attempts-per-game, they will make a higher proportion of their shots and get less turnovers. But some players need a certain amount of players need a certain number of shots in a game to get within the flow of the game (Anthony is definitely one of those players).

But, for the sake of argument, let's assume that that IS true for ALL players. Then you could easily make the case that Noah is in the perfect role for the Bulls; he doesn't get many shot attempts, but averages well over 50%+ from the field. He and Deng, together, average a much higher FG percentage. Does that mean that the Bulls' offense wouldn't improve with Carmelo over Noah and Deng? Not necessarily, because it cannot be PROVEN - one way or another... it cannot be. I cannot prove that defense and rebounding would diminish too. But we have a pretty good idea that will be the case.

In essense, all you have is an idea. That's all and nothing more.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

But if you would like to continue arguing with me (the biggest idiot in here, according to you), someone who sees things from both sides of the spectrum, then be my guest.

 

[Capt. Serious]

A moron who has fallen in love with a pretty damn good player who isn't near the level of the game's greats, all because he's very loud in being pretty damn good? Beg pardon, but that sounds like Lefty (moron) and Carmelo Anthony.

What an amazing 1st post here! :lmao:

 

[Lefty]

That analysis isn't necessaily true or proven. In theory, if a player gets less shot attempts-per-game, they will make a higher proportion of their shots and get less turnovers. But some players need a certain amount of players need a certain number of shots in a game to get within the flow of the game (Anthony is definitely one of those players).

But, for the sake of argument, let's assume that that IS true for ALL players. Then you could easily make the case that Noah is in the perfect role for the Bulls; he doesn't get many shot attempts, but averages well over 50%+ from the field. He and Deng, together, average a much higher FG percentage. Does that mean that the Bulls' offense wouldn't improve with Carmelo over Noah and Deng? Not necessarily, because it cannot be PROVEN - one way or another... it cannot be. I cannot prove that defense and rebounding would diminish too. But we have a pretty good idea that will be the case.

In essense, all you have is an idea. That's all and nothing more.

Fine, let's use your term: ideas. My ideas have tangible backing with high, statistically significant correlations to the outcomes they seek to explain (i.e. scoring is the most important thing, efficiency goes up with decreased usage, etc., these are all proven things). Whereas, what do you have? Starting threads two games into the season heralding two players for leading the league in anything? Come the **** off it you clown. My ideas have strong statistical (i.e. real, because there is no lab in which you can test theories on basketball, all ideas/theories/tests must be done on games/stats that actually happened), and you've got....what, exactly, besides an irrational love of a player because he's very loud while being pretty good at basketball? Give me a break.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Fine, let's use your term: ideas. My ideas have tangible backing with high, statistically significant correlations to the outcomes they seek to explain (i.e. scoring is the most important thing, efficiency goes up with decreased usage, etc., these are all proven things). Whereas, what do you have? Starting threads two games into the season heralding two players for leading the league in anything? Come the **** off it you clown. My ideas have strong statistical (i.e. real, because there is no lab in which you can test theories on basketball, all ideas/theories/tests must be done on games/stats that actually happened), and you've got....what, exactly, besides an irrational love of a player because he's very loud while being pretty good at basketball? Give me a break.

I understand that you have your beliefs, but they are based soley on numbers. You need to use numbers with what you actually see happening on the floor.

The main thing we seem to disagree upon is that, if the Bulls made that trade, they would be an (overall) worse basketball team than before. I have understood your stance about how it would help financially/in the long-haul for the Bulls to deal away Noah and Deng.

Let me focus on the argument that the Bulls would be a lesser team once that trade is made:

Chicago would have a frontcourt of essentially just Boozer, Gibson, and Asik in the playoffs. Their wings would be Anthony, Brewer, Bogans, and Korver (sometimes Watson). And their main point guard would be Rose.

That is a very stellar offensive line-up, and a team that can run out on the break. They would still be a mediocre three-point shooting team but they look great in almost every other way.

The foul problems are going to hurt the Bulls though on defense. Boozer and Gibson are both about 6'9'' but lack the length to contest shots against the best post scorers, and get piles of offensive rebounds. Neither guy is going to get you a lot of easy put-backs. All of the sudden, the Bulls wouldn't be the most dominant rebounding team in the East anymore. They would still be pretty good, but they would lose out in that area against teams like the Magic and Lakers.

I'm not going to lie, the Bulls post-Melo-Deng-Noah trade can fathomably end up a better roster. But that team has zero chance at a championship. I don't think it would be the case that they would end up better, because defensively, they wouldn't be able to gamble as much because Noah was their best shot-blocking presence. So fathomably, the Bulls would actually be a much better transition offensive team if they did not do that trade.

Despite all that though, the Bulls are going to have their hands tied financially if they cannot deal Dengand/or Noah in pretty short-order. And then they would need to heavily rely on draft picks to build a championship contender.

All in all, I would need to REALLY think hard about whether I wanted to go the draft route or the 'trade Noah/Deng' for 'Anthony' route.

The last thing I'll say is this:

You are insulted by what I'm saying because you think I should want that trade to happen.

Well, the reason we can't, and probably will never agree, is because I am insulted because I think you should consider that it wouldn't necessaily be "idiotic" for the Bulls not to make that trade.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And God-forbid I create a single thread praising two players that I love after 13 years of suffering through mediocre-to-horrible teams/players...

I like Carmelo Anthony a lot too, and would absolutely love him on the Bulls.

 

[DewsSox79]

Wow.

wow what? the facts are the facts. this whole love fest for noah by bulls fans is annoying.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

It's things like this:

JoeyAltidore<3 "who the **** in their right mind would ever compare Joakim fucking Noah to Carmelo Anthony
Noah couldn't hold Melo's fucking jock"

(taken from the chat)

that piss me off the most.

 

[DewsSox79]

It's things like this:

JoeyAltidore<3 "who the **** in their right mind would ever compare Joakim fucking Noah to Carmelo Anthony
Noah couldn't hold Melo's fucking jock"

(taken from the chat)

that piss me off the most.

I want a championship team, Mello makes us closer to that than the big mouthed "grinder" in noah. it is real simple.