Brian Bickell - Playoff Hero

[the canadian dream]

I used to feel the same way about that but after watching how easily Bickell has been able to play up and down the wing on any line these playoffs that sort of changed my mind about someone else on the farm being able to step into that roll. Sure it can be groomed again but I don't want to wait another 3 years for that player to show up again. We had it with Buff when he played wing and even Brouwer to an extent. Took 3 years to find that guy and groom him again. I don't want to go through that process again as a fan right now lol. Something we have missed the last couple years in the playoffs and nice to have it back. Not the only thing that has been missing though for sure.</p>


 </p>


Its not that I dislike Frolik either or would want him to just be delt with no thoughts about it. I think he has been invaluable also this playoff also as a depth guy and certainly a special teams guy on the PK. Been amazing to watch him and Kruger dominate on the PK the way they have. Extra bonus that he has potted a few goals along the way for sure. Still don't think Frolik is a guy you can rotate up and down the wing like bigger guys as the Bickells, Buffs and Brouwers of the hockey world. </p>


 </p>


Its a tough spot. I like farm guys getting a shot also and following a new career..im not done with Bickell yet though :icon-wink:.</p>


 </p>


Ugh I have to avoid talking about next years roster right now anyways but it is always in the back of the mind. Im no accountant or one who is good with numbers or figuring out the cap so I have no idea what would work and what wouldn't. I see it will be tough though going forward with the new cap numbers and future RFA's and UFA's coming up. Gotta look past even next season to be able to resign Bickell..there will be blood.</p>

 

[Tater]

I love how Bicks has been playing lately. What irks me is that for the last 3+ years he hasn't made this effort. I'm sure for years, coaching has been telling him to go to the net, finish a check, use your size...</p>


It's not that he didn't have the talent to do some of that, it's that he just didn't bother. Now, in a contract year.....</p>


 </p>


I'm thinking he might revert next year no matter where he ends up if he gets a fat multi-year deal.</p>

 

[R K]

Detroit is going to make an offer I say over 4 mil for him.  Wait for it.</p>


 </p>


There is a chance, the Hawks could afford around 3 mil and he could sign here before July 1st. 2.5 mil per year raise.</p>


 </p>


Stalberg gone---1 mil</p>


Emery gone --- 2 mil</p>


Olesz bought out ---3.2 mil</p>


Montedor bought out 2.5 mil</p>


 </p>


Leddy RFA needs to be resigned before some asshole can make an offersheet.</p>


 </p>


Hawks are at the Cap right now for next year with 21 players signed but the relief above will give them 8 mil or so depending on 1-2 more for Leddy.</p>

 

[R K]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tater" data-cid="199604" data-time="1370645780">
<div>


I love how Bicks has been playing lately. What irks me is that for the last 3+ years he hasn't made this effort. I'm sure for years, coaching has been telling him to go to the net, finish a check, use your size...</p>


It's not that he didn't have the talent to do some of that, it's that he just didn't bother. Now, in a contract year.....</p>


 </p>


I'm thinking he might revert next year no matter where he ends up if he gets a fat multi-year deal.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


He's still developing his game IMO.  Like Seabrook and Kane were very blunt about he's also now hitting the net.  I don't think they were joking.  </p>


 </p>


Is part of it a contract year, could be but remember he didn't get his name on the Cup even though he probably should have.  He's got more desire than most on this team after being part of it and left out.</p>

 

[bookjones]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Canadian Dreamalchuk" data-cid="199602" data-time="1370644688">
<div>


I used to feel the same way about that but after watching how easily Bickell has been able to play up and down the wing on any line these playoffs that sort of changed my mind about someone else on the farm being able to step into that roll. Sure it can be groomed again but I don't want to wait another 3 years for that player to show up again. We had it with Buff when he played wing and even Brouwer to an extent. Took 3 years to find that guy and groom him again. I don't want to go through that process again as a fan right now lol. Something we have missed the last couple years in the playoffs and nice to have it back. Not the only thing that has been missing though for sure.</p>


 </p>


Its not that I dislike Frolik either or would want him to just be delt with no thoughts about it. I think he has been invaluable also this playoff also as a depth guy and certainly a special teams guy on the PK. Been amazing to watch him and Kruger dominate on the PK the way they have. Extra bonus that he has potted a few goals along the way for sure. Still don't think Frolik is a guy you can rotate up and down the wing like bigger guys as the Bickells, Buffs and Brouwers of the hockey world. </p>


 </p>


Its a tough spot. I like farm guys getting a shot also and following a new career..im not done with Bickell yet though :icon-wink:.</p>


 </p>


Ugh I have to avoid talking about next years roster right now anyways but it is always in the back of the mind. Im no accountant or one who is good with numbers or figuring out the cap so I have no idea what would work and what wouldn't. I see it will be tough though going forward with the new cap numbers and future RFA's and UFA's coming up. Gotta look past even next season to be able to resign Bickell..there will be blood.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Oh, you're absolutely right that you can't move Fro up and down----that's something that Mo can do if needed for short-term reassignments though. The beauty of Fro and Kruger now is that they seemingly have TOTALLY accepted their roles and what's expected of them and they seem genuinely to take pride in the fact that they especially excel at certain game aspects like no others. I don't think this would have necessarily been the case with Fro say two years ago or even last year as we all kept holding our breaths waiting for an offensive timebomb to finally go off when measuring against his output during his days in FLA's Wild-Wild West hotass mess of a system. Maybe I am totally reading him wrong now but I just think he enjoys winning and being in a successful organization, living in a large great city, and I think he has been made aware of just how invaluable he's by the coaches and the organization and that has gone a long way to relieving pressure and just excelling at what it turns out he's great at and not lamenting and moping about what he isn't that great at in terms of being an offensive threat. It's like coming to hockey attrition and arriving at some peace. It's got to be good feeling to contribute to a winning situation and be great at something rather than being a drag or meh at something else and under-performing in everyone's eyes at something else. It's all about recailbration where Fro has been concerned.</p>


 </p>


Fro is signed through the next season but like you said in an earlier post, we'd all like to think that they'll take hometown discounts because they love it here and because they all give media lip service to how much they'd love to stay, how much they love their teammates, how much they love the city and fans, etc. but they usually don't coz money talks motherfuckers! When it comes to Fro, if he's not used as part of a trade then when re-upping talk comes up I fangirl hope that he realizes his latest contract was based on being a Top 9 forward and that he understands he was overpaid as such for what he actually wound up doing for the Hawks and thus that he will be reasonable and take a fair market contract extension for what he actually does and what's actually now expected of him. I'm not talking about low-balling him when the time comes. Kruger deserves his nice raise this off-season because he's coming off of an ELC where be busted his ass and worked like a demon to stay on the team. Fro's already been pocketing millions from the Hawks and will make a few more next season. But I hold out hope he enjoys the parade and his day with the Cup (hee!), that he and the gf love the city and that it all becomes a part of swaying him to remain with a palpable contender for multiple Cups. Sure, on some low-hanging fruit team he could be put in the Top 6 and do well for them a la FLA deja vu but how can you stand going to a losing culture after coming from a winning culture where in fact you left a losing culture? </p>

 

[Tater]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="R K" data-cid="199610" data-time="1370648989">
<div>


He's still developing his game IMO.  Like Seabrook and Kane were very blunt about he's also now hitting the net.  I don't think they were joking.  </p>


 </p>


Is part of it a contract year, could be but remember he didn't get his name on the Cup even though he probably should have.  He's got more desire than most on this team after being part of it and left out.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


That's a great point, didn't even think about that.</p>

 

[bookjones]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="R K" data-cid="199608" data-time="1370648854">
<div>


Detroit is going to make an offer I say over 4 mil for him.  Wait for it.</p>


 </p>


There is a chance, the Hawks could afford around 3 mil and he could sign here before July 1st. 2.5 mil per year raise.</p>


 </p>


Stalberg gone---1 mil</p>


Emery gone --- 2 mil</p>


Olesz bought out ---3.2 mil</p>


Montedor bought out 2.5 mil</p>


 </p>


<span style="font-size:18px;">Leddy RFA needs to be resigned before some asshole can make an offersheet.</span></p>


 </p>


Hawks are at the Cap right now for next year with 21 players signed but the relief above will give them 8 mil or so depending on 1-2 more for Leddy.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


 </p>


THIS!</p>


 </p>


This has been my greatest fear and what I have been whining about all season in Chat. Too many GMs have been acting like straight-up trolling assholes the past few years. It gives you pause. Douchebags wanting to just poach talent that you've developed. I am okay with "sorta" poaching only when it comes to goalies in that I think if developing them is not your organization's specialty then let some other teams spend the years and resources doing it and then you try to get them when they're close through trades not lameass offer sheets because there's likely something you have that you develop well that's a good trade for those teams goalies.</p>


 </p>


Also? You ought to see how often fans of other teams on multiple other forums advocate for their GM's to offer sheet Leddy for $4+ mil so the Hawks can't re-sign him. They have no problems with giving up the picks. Assholes.</p>

 

[Shantz My Pants]

There is no way in hell the Hawks can afford what Bickell is going to command on the open market. </p>


 </p>


Especially since they have to resign Leddy, Kruger, and a backup goalie with only $2,094,87 available. </p>


 </p>


That is, unless they trade or amnesty someone with a large contract.</p>

 

[Pez68]

Kruger hasn't earned much more than he's making. He's a fourth liner, nothing more. Frolik is also a fourth liner... Doesn't really matter how good they are at PKing, you don't pay 4th line PK specialists 2+ million a season. With the way the cap is coming down, you can't afford to be paying your fourth line big money... Right now the Hawks fourth line is costing them 6.6M per player... That's not going to work.Trade Frolik, trade Bolland. If Kruger wants anything more than a qualifying offer, you dump him too. I love the job Frolik and Kruger have done this year as well, but their minutes are much more replaceable than guys like Leddy or Bickell. I have much more faith that Morin, Smith, or Hayes can come in and play 4th line minutes and PK, than I have in them being able to replace the size and physical presence of Bickell.</p>


 </p>


Frolik is an odd man out, however you look at it.</p>

 

[bookjones]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pez68" data-cid="199616" data-time="1370652361">
<div>


Kruger hasn't earned much more than he's making. He's a fourth liner, nothing more. Frolik is also a fourth liner... Doesn't really matter how good they are at PKing, you don't pay 4th line PK specialists 2+ million a season. With the way the cap is coming down, you can't afford to be paying your fourth line big money... Right now the Hawks fourth line is costing them 6.6M per player... That's not going to work.Trade Frolik, trade Bolland. If Kruger wants anything more than a qualifying offer, you dump him too. I love the job Frolik and Kruger have done this year as well, but their minutes are much more replaceable than guys like Leddy or Bickell. I have much more faith that Morin, Smith, or Hayes can come in and play 4th line minutes and PK, than I have in them being able to replace the size and physical presence of Bickell.</p>


 </p>


Frolik is an odd man out, however you look at it.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


 </p>


Bickell is not worth $4 mil to this Hawks team, however you look at it.</p>


 </p>


 </p>


No one is saying the Hawks shouldn't trade Fro at any cost, just that there are some of us who would personally prefer that they don't---no fan is gonna die on the argument sword to keep him though. I personally hope they retain him because after his $1.9 mil cap hit for next season I hope there's a chance they can then extend him for an actual reasonable, market rate contract for what he does beyond that. They've weathered through two years of it so far so I'd like to see what happens but I also won't be the least bit surprised if he's fiscally sacrificed this off-season or as mid-season trade bait next year. </p>


 </p>


Same way Stalberg is not retainable even if you discount any bad blood between him and the organization. Depth role players who want to cash in on their success are free to do so and should enjoy their new-found wealth. If the Hawks can't financially make it work and they and their agents are ball-busting then all I can say is "Thanks for the great memories, service, and best of luck" and bring on the next prospect or FA or trade piece on deck to replace them. </p>

 

[R K]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="199615" data-time="1370649978">
<div>


There is no way in hell the Hawks can afford what Bickell is going to command on the open market. </p>


 </p>


Especially since they have to resign Leddy, Kruger, and a backup goalie with only $2,094,87 available. </p>


 </p>


That is, unless they trade or amnesty someone with a large contract.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


Back up goalie was just signed.</p>


 </p>


You are also missing the TWO buyouts they get, which basically frees up 5.5 mil this year and 2.5 mil next year.</p>


 </p>


It is completely possible.  Not sure if it's wise depending on just where the Cap goes.  By the looks at league popularity and zero repercussion from the lockout, I'm guessing up.</p>


 </p>


I wrote what's available above...</p>

 

[R K]

I'm guessing Stalbergs being benched was a precursor of his future to come.  Although they players really do love him in the locker room we've seen that doesn't matter much when it comes to the money needed.</p>


 </p>


Trading Bolland would be a huge move to have any flexibility they would need.</p>

 

[R K]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pez68" data-cid="199616" data-time="1370652361">
<div>


Kruger hasn't earned much more than he's making. He's a fourth liner, nothing more. Frolik is also a fourth liner... Doesn't really matter how good they are at PKing, you don't pay 4th line PK specialists 2+ million a season. With the way the cap is coming down, you can't afford to be paying your fourth line big money... Right now the Hawks fourth line is costing them 6.6M per player... That's not going to work.Trade Frolik, trade Bolland. If Kruger wants anything more than a qualifying offer, you dump him too. I love the job Frolik and Kruger have done this year as well, but their minutes are much more replaceable than guys like Leddy or Bickell. I have much more faith that Morin, Smith, or Hayes can come in and play 4th line minutes and PK, than I have in them being able to replace the size and physical presence of Bickell.</p>


 </p>


Frolik is an odd man out, however you look at it.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


That's the thing the cap really isn't coming down where the Hawks are concerned.  They never spent to the "new cap".   They are just at the top of next years Cap right now.</p>


 </p>


For some teams, over the 64 mil, this next few months is going to be extremely interesting.</p>


 </p>


 </p>


At some point some of the prospects are going to need a shot.  IMO that will be the biggest factor vs Salary Cap on some of these players, IE Frolik...</p>

 

[the canadian dream]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="199615" data-time="1370649978">
<div>


There is no way in hell the Hawks can afford what Bickell is going to command on the open market. </p>


 </p>


Especially since they have to resign Leddy, Kruger, and a backup goalie with only $2,094,87 available. </p>


 </p>


That is, unless they trade or amnesty someone with a large contract.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


Depends on what he..errr..his agent commands. All speculation on what that would be. We are about to see what the actual value for a guy like Bickell is on the free market and with the new CBA. Hopefully the GMs and Owners around the league actually operate under it this time in reasonable manners without paying guys like Bickell 4 million a year for 6 years then force a lock out down the road for their own overpayments. </p>


 </p>


I would imagine he will probably fetch around the 3 mill mark for 5 years or so. And even that would be tough for most teams to cough up in the first year of a new cba with so much unknown going forward. Its actually a really shitty time for a player to be a UFA....errr it should be anyways we will see what GM and Owner starts wrecking shit again this summer. If Im Bickell and my agent right now I would actually take the gamble and re-sign with the Hawks under a real good discount for min years. Wait for these teams around the league to clear their garbage and do their buy outs etc etc and get their books straightened out..then pounce. I know because hes going to be coming off a huge playoffs his market value might never be this high again....or he remains with a good team and tries to increase it even more. That's a gamble. </p>


 </p>


There are different ways he and his agent can approach all of this. Depends if he wants to take a gamble or not. Either way hes not going to be in the poor house anytime soon.</p>

 

[the canadian dream]

ps everyone is missing the team that actually will pay him. its not the standard detroits and vancouver picks. the days of these teams is over</p>


 </p>


its the Islanders. that will be a team that finds a way to spend a little money and make cap room this off season to boost their lineup. and why wouldn't they? by the start of next season they will have some new faces....in net..on the blueline and at least one new big body upfront. they will be players.</p>

 

[bookjones]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="R K" data-cid="199626" data-time="1370658807">
<div>


That's the thing the cap really isn't coming down where the Hawks are concerned.  They never spent to the "new cap".   They are just at the top of next years Cap right now.</p>


 </p>


For some teams, over the 64 mil, this next few months is going to be extremely interesting.</p>


 </p>


 </p>


<u>At some point some of the prospects are going to need a shot.  IMO that will be the biggest factor vs Salary Cap on some of these players, IE Frolik...</u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


 </p>


Yup. </p>

 

[Pez68]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="bookjones" data-cid="199621" data-time="1370657002">
<div>


Bickell is not worth $4 mil to this Hawks team, however you look at it.</p>


 </p>


 </p>


No one is saying the Hawks shouldn't trade Fro at any cost, just that there are some of us who would personally prefer that they don't---no fan is gonna die on the argument sword to keep him though. I personally hope they retain him because after his $1.9 mil cap hit for next season I hope there's a chance they can then extend him for an actual reasonable, market rate contract for what he does beyond that. They've weathered through two years of it so far so I'd like to see what happens but I also won't be the least bit surprised if he's fiscally sacrificed this off-season or as mid-season trade bait next year. </p>


 </p>


Same way Stalberg is not retainable even if you discount any bad blood between him and the organization. Depth role players who want to cash in on their success are free to do so and should enjoy their new-found wealth. If the Hawks can't financially make it work and they and their agents are ball-busting then all I can say is "Thanks for the great memories, service, and best of luck" and bring on the next prospect or FA or trade piece on deck to replace them. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


$4 mil? No. I wouldn't have any objections to 3 years, 10 million though. I think he would be worth that. I mean, I'd rather they give that money to a guy the Hawks know, as opposed to a guy they don't know. That's basically just swapping Bolland out for Bickell.</p>


 </p>


As far as Frolik, I think his value is as high as it is going to be right now, and a lot of teams wouldn't mind giving him a shot for that cap hit. If Bolland can be moved, maybe you can hold onto Frolik. Maybe not. There are a lot of options for next season. Should be very interesting.</p>

 

[Rex]

I feel like I say this every May</p>


 </p>


 </p>


Keep Frolik </p>

 

[Tater]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rex" data-cid="199652" data-time="1370670313">
<div>


I feel like I say this every May</p>


 </p>


 </p>


Keep Frolik </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


You do...and it's June.</p>

 

[Irish Hawk]

Factor in at least another 3 million if and when they off load Bolland, he is done in Chicago. Really hope they can work something out with Bickell.</p>