Brian Windhorst: "Breakup between Derrick Rose and Bulls has begun"

[clonetrooper264]

i wouldn't even say Rose is average....as of now i'd say he just sucks and thats me being truthfully honest and not because im mad at something he said in the media or that he didn't come back for the playoffs after being cleared

last year he took 16 shots for 17 points and in the playoffs he took 19 shots for 20 points and really wasn't making up doing much on defense...plus you gotta take in the fact Rose was highly inconsistent so you never knew what Rose you were gonna get that night.....this year so far has been more of the same but worse

I suppose part of it is dependent on what you expect Rose to be. I'm not really expecting him to drop 20 a game every time out, especially if he's still seeing double. Imo Rose has been great passing the ball this year. He could easily have 8 assists per game were it not for some missed shots on the receiving end. It definitely looks way better than last season. His shot selection has also looked better this year. He's like 3-21 on 3s or something, but he's not chucking them like he has been. Not nearly as many early in the shot clock contested 3s..more so end of the shot clock desperation shots which is just consequential. His form looks better and his midrange jumper looks to be a more integral part of his game again.

A reasonable knock on Rose to me is the inconsistent effort. To me, it only seems like he tries against certain players/teams...usually the ones with good PGs (Wall, Curry, Kyrie, Conley, CP3). And if you look at his track record against those guys, he actually does pretty well...except against Curry, but that guy is basically a living cheat code. But against everyone else, it looks like he just sleepwalks through the game at times. That first Charlotte game this year didn't seem like Rose was trying at all. And I'm sure everyone can think of countless other times where he's done this. Funnily enough, I expected this Pacers game to be like that, but he actually tried on both ends.

 

[Scoot26]

I suppose part of it is dependent on what you expect Rose to be. I'm not really expecting him to drop 20 a game every time out, especially if he's still seeing double. Imo Rose has been great passing the ball this year. He could easily have 8 assists per game were it not for some missed shots on the receiving end. It definitely looks way better than last season. His shot selection has also looked better this year. He's like 3-21 on 3s or something, but he's not chucking them like he has been. Not nearly as many early in the shot clock contested 3s..more so end of the shot clock desperation shots which is just consequential. His form looks better and his midrange jumper looks to be a more integral part of his game again.

A reasonable knock on Rose to me is the inconsistent effort. To me, it only seems like he tries against certain players/teams...usually the ones with good PGs (Wall, Curry, Kyrie, Conley, CP3). And if you look at his track record against those guys, he actually does pretty well...except against Curry, but that guy is basically a living cheat code. But against everyone else, it looks like he just sleepwalks through the game at times. That first Charlotte game this year didn't seem like Rose was trying at all. And I'm sure everyone can think of countless other times where he's done this. Funnily enough, I expected this Pacers game to be like that, but he actually tried on both ends.

G	Tm		Opp		FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	Opponent
1	CHI		CLE	W (+2)	8	22	0.364	0	2	0	2	4	0.5	1	5	1	0	2	0	18	0	Mo Williams
2	CHI	@	BRK	W (+15)	5	11	0.455	0	1	0	5	5	1	2	3	1	0	2	2	15	15	Shane Larkin
3	CHI	@	DET	L (-4)	4	13	0.308	0	1	0	0	0		2	6	0	0	5	3	8	-14	Reggie Jackson
4	CHI		ORL	W (+5)	2	8	0.25	0	1	0	2	2	1	7	8	0	0	3	1	6	5	Elfrid Payton
5	CHI	@	CHO	L (-25)	2	8	0.25	0	3	0	0	0		2	5	0	0	2	0	4	-15	Kemba Walker
6	CHI		OKC	W (+6)	12	25	0.48	0	1	0	5	6	0.833	5	7	0	0	2	1	29	2	Russell Westbrook
7	CHI		MIN	L (-9)	3	13	0.231	1	4	0.25	4	5	0.8	3	5	1	0	5	1	11	-21	Ricky Rubio
8	CHI	@	PHI	W (+23)	6	14	0.429	0	3	0	0	1	0	5	7	0	1	2	0	12	14	Timothy McConnell
9	CHI		CHO	W (+5)	4	14	0.286	0	2	0	2	2	1	1	8	1	1	3	2	10	-3	Kemba Walker
10	CHI		IND	W (+1)	9	18	0.5	2	2	1	3	4	0.75	2	6	2	1	0	3	23	5	George Hill

Wouldn't say there's much consistency there between who the PG's are. His best game of the season is against Russell Westbrook and then George Hill last night. Unless he just cares to play vs Westbrook and then against the Pacers. His other best game is against Cleveland.

So who knows really...If anything I'd just chalk it up to his inconsistency in general.

 

[clonetrooper264]

G	Tm		Opp		FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	Opponent
1	CHI		CLE	W (+2)	8	22	0.364	0	2	0	2	4	0.5	1	5	1	0	2	0	18	0	Mo Williams
2	CHI	@	BRK	W (+15)	5	11	0.455	0	1	0	5	5	1	2	3	1	0	2	2	15	15	Shane Larkin
3	CHI	@	DET	L (-4)	4	13	0.308	0	1	0	0	0		2	6	0	0	5	3	8	-14	Reggie Jackson
4	CHI		ORL	W (+5)	2	8	0.25	0	1	0	2	2	1	7	8	0	0	3	1	6	5	Elfrid Payton
5	CHI	@	CHO	L (-25)	2	8	0.25	0	3	0	0	0		2	5	0	0	2	0	4	-15	Kemba Walker
6	CHI		OKC	W (+6)	12	25	0.48	0	1	0	5	6	0.833	5	7	0	0	2	1	29	2	Russell Westbrook
7	CHI		MIN	L (-9)	3	13	0.231	1	4	0.25	4	5	0.8	3	5	1	0	5	1	11	-21	Ricky Rubio
8	CHI	@	PHI	W (+23)	6	14	0.429	0	3	0	0	1	0	5	7	0	1	2	0	12	14	Timothy McConnell
9	CHI		CHO	W (+5)	4	14	0.286	0	2	0	2	2	1	1	8	1	1	3	2	10	-3	Kemba Walker
10	CHI		IND	W (+1)	9	18	0.5	2	2	1	3	4	0.75	2	6	2	1	0	3	23	5	George Hill

Wouldn't say there's much consistency there between who the PG's are. His best game of the season is against Russell Westbrook and then George Hill last night. Unless he just cares to play vs Westbrook and then against the Pacers. His other best game is against Cleveland.

So who knows really...If anything I'd just chalk it up to his inconsistency in general.

Well I'm not saying he isn't inconsistent, he most certainly has been. But if you just look at the numbers, he "tried harder" against Cleveland and OKC and Indiana (for whatever reason). He took way more shots against them. I assume if Rose had been playing the entire game last night he'd have been up around 20 shots as well. Not only that, but he tried harder on defense too, which doesn't really appear on the stat sheet as Rose isn't one of those turnover forcing players. Having watched most of the games though, there's a visible difference in how Rose played against those 3 teams than the others and that's what I'm saying.

Also technically he played against Monta Ellis against the Pacers since Hill was injured.

 

[Enasic]

Rose hates Indiana and always gets up for them.

 

[Alpha Male]

Rose hates Indiana and always gets up for them.

Maybe he is still pissed about sb 41

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Maybe he is still pissed about sb 41

sb 41?

 

[Bear06]

sb 41?

Super Bowl XLI

 

[Axl Rose]

Maybe he is still pissed about sb 41

it actually stems from the years when they were a goon squad and beat up on him because thats all they could do

 

[Naptastic]

it actually stems from the years when they were a goon squad and beat up on him because thats all they could do

Yeah, They used to foul the shit out of him just to throw him off his game. Jeff Foster is an asshole. [video=youtube;lynrCDw3W6A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lynrCDw3W6A[/video]

 

[The Hawk]

I was just amazed at how few steals and fouls he has also. Sure fouls are not good but guess what....... if a guy has some fouls you'd have to say that he is at least TRYING to play defense. To me, his lack of steals and fouls is an indication that he really doesn't give much of a shit. Hell, if you are having trouble shooting the ball can't you at least bust your ass and play defense?

 

[Raskolnikov]

I was just amazed at how few steals and fouls he has also. Sure fouls are not good but guess what....... if a guy has some fouls you'd have to say that he is at least TRYING to play defense. To me, his lack of steals and fouls is an indication that he really doesn't give much of a shit. Hell, if you are having trouble shooting the ball can't you at least bust your ass and play defense?

I agree he doesn't look explosive or like he is trying real hard on defense. He is like a rudder, just sorta steers guys around toward help. I kinda hope he plays against Curry and Curry humiliates him just because I want to see him motivated to be the best again.

 

[clonetrooper264]

You know, Rose hasn't ever really been a player that gets a ton of steals anyway...

 

[Enasic]

You know, Rose hasn't ever really been a player that gets a ton of steals anyway...

Nope. He never plays the passing lanes and rarely goes for strips. He's actually a pretty damned good 1 on 1 defender. When you run him through screens and back cut him he's an average at best defender.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I wanted to make a point to the gentleman who said he sprained his ankles in the D-Rose shoes. It sounded like they have some fortified ankle support?

There is a great book on minimalist running called "Born to Run." Essentially, the less shoe the better as your body adapts. If you add protections and cushions you don't fear impacts properly and you don't strengthen the muscles that protect you properly.

The more expensive the shoe, the more runners get hurt. Meanwhile, the "Running People", the Tarahumara of Mexico who have a gregarious and peaceful society because they have always run away from oppressors into the hills, they wear sandals and never get hurt.


I have always played basketball in running shoes instinctually. I am light boned, and as whitey don't jump real well, running was my skill and I used shoes made for it. Basketball shoes felt to heavy, but the newer models like the Kobe's have always tempted me.

Basically, if the DRose shoe is ultra fortified to prevent ankle injuries it probably does lead to them. hahaha. funny how that works. Human physiology is complex and amazing, we are foolish to tamper with it too much.

It is possible in fact that over protective shoes are responsible for his injuries, and the more he fortifies them for protection the more he keeps getting hurt.

 

[The Hawk]

In my book, unless a guy is an all world offensive player, which very few are, if you do not play defense then you are worthless as a teammate. There is no reason why Rose should not excel at defense. He is big enough, athletic enough, and young enough to play good defense. He chooses not to. He thinks he is an MVP in the NBA and has an entourage feeding his massive ego. He's not nearly as good as what he thinks he is and until he commits himself to fixing his mind and his game he is going to be jsut another over-rated NBA player.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

In my book, unless a guy is an all world offensive player, which very few are, if you do not play defense then you are worthless as a teammate. There is no reason why Rose should not excel at defense. He is big enough, athletic enough, and young enough to play good defense. He chooses not to. He thinks he is an MVP in the NBA and has an entourage feeding his massive ego. He's not nearly as good as what he thinks he is and until he commits himself to fixing his mind and his game he is going to be jsut another over-rated NBA player.

Derrick Rose is an adequate defensive player. Defense is mostly a team dynamic, and as Rose has missed a lot of time, he has been off at times. He also sometimes forgets about rotating and there's not an excuse for that. He has seemed to get a little more comfortable making hustle plays for loose balls as this season has gone on. Consistency is something he needs to get back on defensively, as well. In his MVP year and the season after, his defense was very good. It can be that way consistently again. But either way, Bulls are in the top 5 defensively right now. You're crying about spilled milk.

 

[The Hawk]

I wanted to make a point to the gentleman who said he sprained his ankles in the D-Rose shoes. It sounded like they have some fortified ankle support?

There is a great book on minimalist running called "Born to Run." Essentially, the less shoe the better as your body adapts. If you add protections and cushions you don't fear impacts properly and you don't strengthen the muscles that protect you properly.

The more expensive the shoe, the more runners get hurt. Meanwhile, the "Running People", the Tarahumara of Mexico who have a gregarious and peaceful society because they have always run away from oppressors into the hills, they wear sandals and never get hurt.


I have always played basketball in running shoes instinctually. I am light boned, and as whitey don't jump real well, running was my skill and I used shoes made for it. Basketball shoes felt to heavy, but the newer models like the Kobe's have always tempted me.

Basically, if the DRose shoe is ultra fortified to prevent ankle injuries it probably does lead to them. hahaha. funny how that works. Human physiology is complex and amazing, we are foolish to tamper with it too much.

It is possible in fact that over protective shoes are responsible for his injuries, and the more he fortifies them for protection the more he keeps getting hurt.

Great Post! It really makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Enasic]

Makes sense but it also could be that the way he used to play with the on a dime stops and crazy amount of torque on his drives, just wasn't sustainable no matter what shoe he wore. He also said that he never really was into strength training or stretching. You combine all these factors and you have a recipe for disaster.

As far as the sprain from the other night goes, I'm pretty sure the bulls are just being ultra cautious and want him full go for Friday. It was a rolled ankle. It happens in basketball.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Derrick Rose is an adequate defensive player. Defense is mostly a team dynamic, and as Rose has missed a lot of time, he has been off at times. He also sometimes forgets about rotating and there's not an excuse for that. He has seemed to get a little more comfortable making hustle plays for loose balls as this season has gone on. Consistency is something he needs to get back on defensively, as well. In his MVP year and the season after, his defense was very good. It can be that way consistently again. But either way, Bulls are in the top 5 defensively right now. You're crying about spilled milk.

Consistency is definitely something he doesn't have right now, but when Rose wants to be he is a dang good one on one defender. His matchups against other top PGs in the league show it.

 

[Bear Pride]

Check the stats bruh...8000 more posts than you. You don't know shit about me. Saying that Lebron is lucky means that you are basketball-Special person. Lebron is a great player...who had his two best players get injured in the playoffs...and still put a foot in the Bulls' ass...and the Bulls were not "besieged with injuries".

Go to your room with that bullshit.

And then he went and lost in the finals..... again.

:aj: