Bryan LaHair to be called up

[Jntg4]

CO should be banned for stupidity.

I don't see why everyone is defending Bryan LaHair... :shrug:

CO is right on this one.

 

[nwfisch]

Sure being a coach will change one's approach, but how does it make him any more or less intelligent about the MLB? Unless he has coached at the professional level, I don't see that it matters. Hell, even if he did coach at the MLB level, I'm not so sure that it matters. There are so really stupid people that are managers, coaches, etc.

I agree that stats don't tell you everything, but they give you the big picture and that's what matters. Sure, they don't tell you that Tony Campana hustled or that Ramirez didn't run out the pop up to the SS, but those things really don't matter that much. Ramirez is still a good player and Campana still sucks. Stats tell us that. I think that the little things just delude the bigger picture and make it harder to see what really matters.

We have to defend Rammy in every thread :lol:

Spoiler

I love how CO is talking like he's Theo Epstein or someone with a World Series ring.
And some kid who reads fangraphs is the most intelligent person ever on stats

 

[nwfisch]

I don't see why everyone is defending Bryan LaHair... :shrug:

CO is right on this one.

I'm not making crazy promises on LaHair. Not every player on a baseball team can hit .341 with 50 HRs and 130 RBIs. Every team needs role players, preferably the best ones, and the Cubs have to do themselves justice by seeing what LaHair can do for them. It's clear they aren't going anywhere til 2013 at least, so kick the tires on him for a year.

 

[Jntg4]

Everybody is quick to bash CO, but nobody insults me... **** you guys.

 

[Uman85]

Everybody is quick to bash CO, but nobody insults me... **** you guys.

You're not a punk or a know-it-all.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Sure being a coach will change one's approach, but how does it make him any more or less intelligent about the MLB? Unless he has coached at the professional level, I don't see that it matters. Hell, even if he did coach at the MLB level, I'm not so sure that it matters. There are so really stupid people that are managers, coaches, etc.

how would you know the exact effects of coaching on baseball knowledge since you have never coached? neither have i...but i disagree with your assertion....

most managers and coaches have to have a very good understanding of the game in order to adjust lineups and manage the team accordingly

even the "dumbest" managers in the MLB are pretty damn knowledgable when it comes to baseball

anyway, regardless, i think being a coach is just valuable experience in being able to a run a baseball team in general...and again you have to know a bit about baseball(atleast in most cases)..it also gives you a better ability to judge players not solely on stats imo..but again this is my perspective i have never been a coach..i would like to see 2seam input on this as well

I agree that stats don't tell you everything, but they give you the big picture and that's what matters. Sure, they don't tell you that Tony Campana hustled or that Ramirez didn't run out the pop up to the SS, but those things really don't matter that much. Ramirez is still a good player and Campana still sucks. Stats tell us that. I think that the little things just delude the bigger picture and make it harder to see what really matters.

but thats just it...they DONT tell you everything..therefore they are not ALWAYS a direct indication of how a player performs since they cant cover every attribute a player possesses.. you have to consider the intangibles as in how the player actually looks on the field

and where did i say that the "little things" were as important as the stats?

isnt it true that some stats are selective and have holes in them....so dont they delude the big picture in looking at a player as well?

 

[Rice Cube]

Everybody is quick to bash CO, but nobody insults me... **** you guys.

You're Special person.

 

[Jntg4]

Bryan LaHair: All-Star
The Sequel to the Koyie Hill: All-Star? thread, but the question mark isn't needed here, it's a given that he will be

 

[Jntg4]

You're Special person.

You just offended Gator29 :fist:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

You just offended Gator29 :fist:

where's your research?

 

[Jntg4]

where's your research?

It's on fangraphs.com

 

[Captain Obvious]

And yet if this were true... you wouldn't see guys like Adam Dunn ever make it to the big leagues. Jim Thome should have never reached 600 HR, as he had just 52 in nearly 1500 AB in the minors. Matt Murton should have been a perennial All Star. That Babe Ruth guy, would have pitched his way to early retirement after 8 years or so. Tuffy Rhodes, he should be looking at a first ballot HoF induction right now.... here... not in Japan.

All of these guys, their minor league numbers and initial callup numbers betray the outcomes of their MLB careers. In other words, when it comes to actual assessment of inexperienced (usually young) players... numbers are... much more often than not... overlooked. It's the things that numbers do not tell us that are taken much more seriously. Ask Greg Maddux how he made it through his first 180+ IP... if it was the numbers that told us everything.

By the way, you'll have a very hard time finding any team that uses a heavier look at stats than appearance of performance in assessing a young player. Even the metric masters of Boston and Oakland have been known to throw stats away when it comes to young players.

Adam Dunn? Mr. Ineverhadbelowa400OBPintheminors? The same guy that was a 2nd round pick? Jim Thome also raked in the minors, it's not all about HRs. Murton and Rhodes were both worse in the minors than Dunn and Thome, yet Dunn and Thome weren't supposed to be good? Oh and Babe Ruth was awesome in the minors... in his one season. Maddux was also awesome in the minors.

I agree that stats are overused when evaluating minor league players, but you act like they mean nothing. You have to look at the stats in the minors with the age of the player. That brings us to Mr. LaHair. He's 28. If any of the scout saw anything in him, I'm pretty sure he would have been given more than 1 shot at the MLB level. There is a reason he played in 6 AAA seasons, the last 3 of which have been full seasons. He's just not good. It took him his 6th try at AAA to put up these numbers. And if you don't want to use numbers, that's fine. But the scouts are obviously seeing the same thing, as he hasn't been called up since 08.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Being a coach doesn't matter and neither does playing? I've read some dumb things before, but that might be the dumbest thing I've seen on CCS.

How does it make you more intelligent? I don't see what knowing how to hit does to make you smarter.

We have to defend Rammy in every thread :lol:

Spoiler

I love how CO is talking like he's Theo Epstein or someone with a World Series ring.
And some kid who reads fangraphs is the most intelligent person ever on stats

Excuse me for developing my knowledge of baseball and applying it. Damn those books and articles!

how would you know the exact effects of coaching on baseball knowledge since you have never coached? neither have i...but i disagree with your assertion....

most managers and coaches have to have a very good understanding of the game in order to adjust lineups and manage the team accordingly

even the "dumbest" managers in the MLB are pretty damn knowledgable when it comes to baseball

anyway, regardless, i think being a coach is just valuable experience in being able to a run a baseball team in general...and again you have to know a bit about baseball(atleast in most cases)..it also gives you a better ability to judge players not solely on stats imo..but again this is my perspective i have never been a coach..i would like to see 2seam input on this as well



but thats just it...they DONT tell you everything..therefore they are not ALWAYS a direct indication of how a player performs since they cant cover every attribute a player possesses.. you have to consider the intangibles as in how the player actually looks on the field

and where did i say that the "little things" were as important as the stats?

isnt it true that some stats are selective and have holes in them....so dont they delude the big picture in looking at a player as well?

I would say that the coaching experience would be different for each individual.

Let's hypothetically say that these managers and coaches don't have a good understanding of the game, they aren't paid, they can keep coming back as long as they want(you get the idea).

Dusty Baker is knowledgeable? I would certainly disagree with that statement, as he doesn't like to clog the bases. And that's exactly my point, even MLB managers don't know shit.

Soriano looks like shit in the field, agreed? But he is still average. Darwin Barney hustles a lot. But he still sucks. Your eyes are going to fool you.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Sure being a coach will change one's approach, but how does it make him any more or less intelligent about the MLB? Unless he has coached at the professional level, I don't see that it matters. Hell, even if he did coach at the MLB level, I'm not so sure that it matters. There are so really stupid people that are managers, coaches, etc.

I agree that stats don't tell you everything, but they give you the big picture and that's what matters. Sure, they don't tell you that Tony Campana hustled or that Ramirez didn't run out the pop up to the SS, but those things really don't matter that much. Ramirez is still a good player and Campana still sucks. Stats tell us that. I think that the little things just delude the bigger picture and make it harder to see what really matters.

There's more to baseball than stats let on. You look at a box score and see some schlub went 0/5 with two Ks and a DP. Bad game, right? Maybe. He's had several games like this. Bad player, right? Possibly. But when you actually know what to look for, and pay attention to the game itself... not the box score... you find that guy managed to hit three balls right on the nose, and that the DP he hit into should have only been him out as the guy standing at second during the line drive was foolishly caught off the base. If you've watched all of his games, you might find that he's been tearing the cover off the ball, but hitting it right at good fielders... rather then just shrugging him off as a .200 hitter with terrible stats across the board.

So, when he's suddenly going 3/4 with a HR and 5 RBI a month later... then puts up a .280 BA with 25 HR and 100 RBI the next year... those statheads sit there scratching their head... when those that pa attention to ALL FACETS of the game just give knowing nods.

If you ever so much as played the game... you would understand this. If you ever coached or scouted, you'd have an even deeper understanding of it. To sit here and spout off just stats alone is ridiculous.

 

[nwfisch]

How does it make you more intelligent? I don't see what knowing how to hit does to make you smarter.



Excuse me for developing my knowledge of baseball and applying it. Damn those books and articles!


I would say that the coaching experience would be different for each individual.

Let's hypothetically say that these managers and coaches don't have a good understanding of the game, they aren't paid, they can keep coming back as long as they want(you get the idea).

Dusty Baker is knowledgeable? I would certainly disagree with that statement, as he doesn't like to clog the bases. And that's exactly my point, even MLB managers don't know shit.

Soriano looks like shit in the field, agreed? But he is still average. Darwin Barney hustles a lot. But he still sucks. Your eyes are going to fool you.

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Dusty Baker loses more baseball knowledge in one day than you'll ever have.

 

[Uman85]

There's more to baseball than stats let on. You look at a box score and see some schlub went 0/5 with two Ks and a DP. Bad game, right? Maybe. He's had several games like this. Bad player, right? Possibly. But when you actually know what to look for, and pay attention to the game itself... not the box score... you find that guy managed to hit three balls right on the nose, and that the DP he hit into should have only been him out as the guy standing at second during the line drive was foolishly caught off the base. If you've watched all of his games, you might find that he's been tearing the cover off the ball, but hitting it right at good fielders... rather then just shrugging him off as a .200 hitter with terrible stats across the board.

So, when he's suddenly going 3/4 with a HR and 5 RBI a month later... then puts up a .280 BA with 25 HR and 100 RBI the next year... those statheads sit there scratching their head... when those that pa attention to ALL FACETS of the game just give knowing nods.

If you ever so much as played the game... you would understand this. If you ever coached or scouted, you'd have an even deeper understanding of it. To sit here and spout off just stats alone is ridiculous.

Post of the year. :clap:

 

[Captain Obvious]

There's more to baseball than stats let on. You look at a box score and see some schlub went 0/5 with two Ks and a DP. Bad game, right? Maybe. He's had several games like this. Bad player, right? Possibly. But when you actually know what to look for, and pay attention to the game itself... not the box score... you find that guy managed to hit three balls right on the nose, and that the DP he hit into should have only been him out as the guy standing at second during the line drive was foolishly caught off the base. If you've watched all of his games, you might find that he's been tearing the cover off the ball, but hitting it right at good fielders... rather then just shrugging him off as a .200 hitter with terrible stats across the board.

So, when he's suddenly going 3/4 with a HR and 5 RBI a month later... then puts up a .280 BA with 25 HR and 100 RBI the next year... those statheads sit there scratching their head... when those that pa attention to ALL FACETS of the game just give knowing nods.

If you ever so much as played the game... you would understand this. If you ever coached or scouted, you'd have an even deeper understanding of it. To sit here and spout off just stats alone is ridiculous.

Now why in the world at the end of this season, would I be scratching my head based off of a few games at the beginning of last season? I know that these "statheads" are me and Poodski(Poodski and I), but do you really think that we look at a couple of box scores and pass judgement on a player? You're basically contradicting yourself, as I don't know of any stathead or really anyone for that matter that would do that.

Out of everything you listed, I don't see how coaching affects any of that. You know what to look for? Yeah, so do I, look at his LD total for the game.

 

[Uman85]

How does it make you more intelligent? I don't see what knowing how to hit does to make you smarter.



Excuse me for developing my knowledge of baseball and applying it. Damn those books and articles!


even MLB managers don't know shit.

I rest my case. These 3 sentences clearly sum up how clueless you are. There's no help for you.

Playing the game and experiencing it firsthand doesn't make you more intelligent.

Reading books and a silly website make you an expert on baseball.

Some managers in the major leagues know nothing about baseball.

There you have it, guys. CCS' own prodigal son. The baseball genius is right here.

 

[nwfisch]

Spoiler

CO

 

[2SeamHeat]

Adam Dunn? Mr. Ineverhadbelowa400OBPintheminors? The same guy that was a 2nd round pick? Jim Thome also raked in the minors, it's not all about HRs. Murton and Rhodes were both worse in the minors than Dunn and Thome, yet Dunn and Thome weren't supposed to be good? Oh and Babe Ruth was awesome in the minors... in his one season. Maddux was also awesome in the minors.

I agree that stats are overused when evaluating minor league players, but you act like they mean nothing. You have to look at the stats in the minors with the age of the player. That brings us to Mr. LaHair. He's 28. If any of the scout saw anything in him, I'm pretty sure he would have been given more than 1 shot at the MLB level. There is a reason he played in 6 AAA seasons, the last 3 of which have been full seasons. He's just not good. It took him his 6th try at AAA to put up these numbers. And if you don't want to use numbers, that's fine. But the scouts are obviously seeing the same thing, as he hasn't been called up since 08.

We'll make this simple, stathead.

Show me where LaHair has sucked STATWISE the past 3 years.

If you do, then he needs to go... period. If he doesn't... it's time for you to STFU... for you'll prove your irrelevance. You attack him like mad, yet nothing from his stats the past 3 years says he shouldn't be given a real shot. Stats mean everything... or are the "big picture" right?

BTW, do your homework. Ruth was a pitcher when he first came up with Boston. He was a good pitcher, but he showed signs of arm issues due to his weight. He also showed this massive potential with a bat... despite putting up less than spectacular numbers through his first three seasons. Wonder why they made him an OF if he couldn't hit. The stats show he wasn't that good. Hmmmmm.....