Bulls Goin After Brandon Roy

[WindyCity7]

And rebound...and play defense...and pass really well from the C position...

Nope none of that matters either.

:clap:

i cant believe ppl are shitting on noah and wanna trade him for bum ass tyreke evans and a pick yeah hes no Hakeem but c'mon

tyreke isnt a bum ....him & rose int he backcourt would give any tema you can name problems but as far as trading noah NAH im praying it doesnt happen id be pissed

Noah's getting paid too much as a role player.

I love Noah and what he provides.

At the same time, I hate his salary, and his limited offensive game.

I don't think Noah can be the starting center on a Bulls championship team.

I WANT Noah to succeed as a fan.

I PREDICT he won't.

ahhh ....... WELL......hes getting paid similar to his nba cohorts in the same position .....everything else except him being successful that you said i disagree with .... also .... brooks n dunn suck ..... yes im petty

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

tyreke isnt a bum ....him & rose int he backcourt would give any tema you can name problems but as far as trading noah NAH im praying it doesnt happen id be pissed

the trade would be worth it

ahhh ....... WELL......hes getting paid similar to his nba cohorts in the same position .....everything else except him being successful that you said i disagree with .... also .... brooks n dunn suck ..... yes im petty

list me these cohorts

 

[WindyCity7]

the trade would be worth it


if we can keep noah imo

list me these cohorts

gimmie a min

 

[nwfisch]

:clap:



tyreke isnt a bum ....him & rose int he backcourt would give any tema you can name problems but as far as trading noah NAH im praying it doesnt happen id be pissed



ahhh ....... WELL......hes getting paid similar to his nba cohorts in the same position .....everything else except him being successful that you said i disagree with .... also .... brooks n dunn suck ..... yes im petty

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Why the hell not at this point?

 

[clonetrooper264]

tyreke can create on offense, get to the rack, and pass well

he changes the dynamic the offense, i think that adequately

rebounding isn't a big issue really..noah takes away some rebounds from boozer

tyreke is also a decent rebounder for his position and has height

the bulls would be fine rebounding wise

asik isn't a bad rebounder, and neither are drummond/robinson

the real replacement needed is defense, getting a guy like drummond/robinson would help

asik isn't a slouch on D either, of course asik isn't really a starter either so:shrug:

i know you're going to say "i wasn't completely serious"

i know..i just like to clarify

Tyreke would definitely add more of a dynamic value to our offense. This we have discussed already. Yes Tyreke is a pretty good rebounder for his position, I realize this. 20/5/5 his rookie season. The man can ball.

BUT

The first reason I'm hesitant to give up both Noah and Taj (just Noah I'm ok with and I will explain why later) is because of all the defense you're losing in the frontcourt. I do realize that Tyreke is an ok defender, which is all fine and good, but front court defense is a little more of a premium in the league if you know what I mean. You give up Taj and Noah, you're giving up our two best front court defenders. All we'd have left is Asik and the hope that one of those Drummond/Robinson guys pans out to be a defensive force. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they'll be good defensively.

The second reason that I'm hesitant is that we're losing our two best offensive rebounders. I realize that Boozer and Asik are good rebounders, but they don't quite give the same amount of hustle and effort in getting those loose balls as either Taj or Noah do. Boozer's a lazy puss, let's be real here. Asik can do a decent job because he's tall, but he's not starting material. We'd still be alright rebounding wise, but we won't be quite as good.

The 3rd reason is that we then lose our frontcourt depth. We'd have a rotation of the rookie big man, Boozer, and Asik. Unless that rookie is a total stud, that rotation is meh and instead of having 3 great defenders we only have one, possibly 2. Also you could count on Noah and Taj to provide a little bit of offense. Asik, you can't rely on him for anything except bobbled catches and missed free throws. I have no idea if either Drummond or Robinson is going to be a 18-20 point scorer and a great defender/rebounder. If they are, then I guess I'll reconsider my position.

Now I do realize I've completely overreacted to the whole thing, but the point of all this rambling is, is Tyreke really that good? Like I said before, I'll give up Noah for him in a heartbeat in that trade for the #5 pick. Noah and Taj I'm hesitant because we're just making another hole on the team that will need to be addressed.

Now if you make an immediate subsequent move to get another quality big man on the team perhaps using the non guaranteed contracts of Brewer/Korver/Watson, maybe it's a different story.

 

[clonetrooper264]

gimmie a min

Joakim Noah-11.3M

His cohorts (ie starting centers I thought of off the top of my head who aren't on rookie contracts)

Deandre Jordan~10M

Andris Biedrins~9M Well he used to be a starter anyway...

Al Jefferson~14M

Andrew Bogut~13M

Tyson Chandler~13M

Andrew Bynum~15M

Marc Gasol~13M

Boris Diaw~9M

That's just a few. :dunno:

 

[Diddy1122]

Noah's getting paid too much as a role player.

I love Noah and what he provides.

At the same time, I hate his salary, and his limited offensive game.

I don't think Noah can be the starting center on a Bulls championship team.

I WANT Noah to succeed as a fan.

I PREDICT he won't.

When paired with a solid low post PF, I believe he can be. Boozer is not a low post player anymore. Some of that is by design, as this team lacks any quality shooters not named Korver to draw defenders out of the lane so Rose can drive. As much as we need another shot creator, we need a low post scorer too. It's something the Bulls have lacked since Eddy Curry.

I think some posters seriously marginalize Noah's impact on this team. I know it's almost sad to say this but he is the Bulls best playmaker (that's right, PLAYMAKER) other than Derrick Rose. He is the creator out of the high post. And he's made some great passes & plays running the break, something no other NBA center can do. He's arguably a top 3 offensive rebounder in the NBA. His rim activity has led to countless 2nd chance points, which we've been in the tops of the NBA the past few seasons. These are the reasons why he gets paid the money he does. It is right in market value for a starting center of his ability. If anyone thinks Asik isn't going to draw offers above the MLE, they are deluding themselves. Kwame Brown made $7mill this year.

In this league, big men & scorers get paid. It's that simple.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Joakim Noah-11.3M

His cohorts (ie starting centers I thought of off the top of my head who aren't on rookie contracts)

Deandre Jordan~10M

Andris Biedrins~9M Well he used to be a starter anyway...

Al Jefferson~14M

Andrew Bogut~13M

Tyson Chandler~13M

Andrew Bynum~15M

Marc Gasol~13M

Boris Diaw~9M

That's just a few. :dunno:

i don't really classify diaw as a center...

all the other guys,except for biedrins and jordan, are easily better than noah

and their contracts are smaller than noah's

noah's contract also rises by about a million per year each year

in 2013/2014 he makes 12.1, then the next year 13.15, then 14 ish

so if the bulls keep him, they have to hope he starts improving,otherwise he will be,essentially, be getting more and more overpaid

 

[clonetrooper264]

i don't really classify diaw as a center...

all the other guys,except for biedrins and jordan, are easily better than noah

and their contracts are smaller than noah's

noah's contract also rises by about a million per year each year

in 2013/2014 he makes 12.1, then the next year 13.15, then 14 ish

so if the bulls keep him, they have to hope he starts improving,otherwise he will be,essentially, be getting more and more overpaid

The guys who are better than Noah are also making more than Noah. Guys who are worse, get paid less. Makes sense right?

And unless they're at the end of their contracts, or I'm mistaken, their contracts also rise with each year. So soon Bynum (probably best on the list) will be making something closer to 18M or even 20M. So still relatively speaking, Noah will still be making market value as the years go on.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

The guys who are better than Noah are also making more than Noah. Guys who are worse, get paid less. Makes sense right?

And unless they're at the end of their contracts, or I'm mistaken, their contracts also rise with each year. So soon Bynum (probably best on the list) will be making something closer to 18M or even 20M. So still relatively speaking, Noah will still be making market value as the years go on.

valid points...not all of them rise though

i know biedrin's does not...

and others do not rise as much as noah's...so if he stays at about the same production, his market value will be that high in a few years? damn...

whatever...financially,when looking at the scope of the deal, it's positive to get rid of noah and taj and get evans and a #5 pick

regardless of the fact that noah is a center, if you can get rid of that contract to get a player like tyreke and a top 5 pick..you do it

 

[clonetrooper264]

valid points...not all of them rise though

i know biedrin's does not...

and others do not rise as much as noah's...so if he stays at about the same production, his market value will be that high in a few years? damn...

Yeah I figured some of them wouldn't, but in general in the NBA, contracts raise by at least 5% I think. Or 3% or something...

whatever...financially,when looking at the scope of the deal, it's positive to get rid of noah and taj and get evans and a #5 pick

regardless of the fact that noah is a center, if you can get rid of that contract to get a player like tyreke and a top 5 pick..you do it

I'm still gonna have to disagree because I don't think Noah's contract is that atrociously bad.

Strangely enough, the deal breaker for me is giving up Taj, not Noah. I've already said I'm cool with Noah/29 for Evans/5. :elephant:

 

[WindyCity7]

I'm still gonna have to disagree because I don't think Noah's contract is that atrociously bad.

Strangely enough, the deal breaker for me is giving up Taj, not Noah. I've already said I'm cool with Noah/29 for Evans/5. :elephant:

:clap:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Yeah I figured some of them wouldn't, but in general in the NBA, contracts raise by at least 5% I think. Or 3% or something...



I'm still gonna have to disagree because I don't think Noah's contract is that atrociously bad.

Strangely enough, the deal breaker for me is giving up Taj, not Noah. I've already said I'm cool with Noah/29 for Evans/5. :elephant:

noah/29 for evans/5 is a steal to me...adding taj makes it a pretty good trade

i guess noah's contract isn't that bad...but it locks the team a little financially(and wasting it often on the bench in the 4th)..that's the bad part for me imo

'reke doesn't have a large contract..which is big in the deal imo

 

[clonetrooper264]

noah/29 for evans/5 is a steal to me...adding taj makes it a pretty good trade

i guess noah's contract isn't that bad...but it locks the team a little financially(and wasting it often on the bench in the 4th)..that's the bad part for me imo

'reke doesn't have a large contract..which is big in the deal imo

Yeah I see what you're coming from. I guess it depends too on what Sacto thinks of Evans going forward. If they're wanted to "get rid of him" so to speak for a defensive C/PF, then I think Noah might be enough. Is it a steal, sure it is, but I'm all about getting those steals in trades.

Noah isn't on the bench in the 4th that much, that was pretty much only early on in the season. Once he got his act together, it was him out there in the 4th with Gibson. If anyone should be getting blamed for getting paid a lot and sitting in the 4th it's Boozer. But we all knew that, right?

Evans doesn't have a large contract...yet. The moment it comes time to extend him (and I assume we'd want to keep him going forward) he's going to demand at least as much as Noah...probably a few million more. Though immediately, we get a little bit of space to work with, which is all fine and good.

Still prefer the Deng deal to the Noah one lol.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Tyreke would definitely add more of a dynamic value to our offense. This we have discussed already. Yes Tyreke is a pretty good rebounder for his position, I realize this. 20/5/5 his rookie season. The man can ball.

yes he can

The first reason I'm hesitant to give up both Noah and Taj (just Noah I'm ok with and I will explain why later) is because of all the defense you're losing in the frontcourt. I do realize that Tyreke is an ok defender, which is all fine and good, but front court defense is a little more of a premium in the league if you know what I mean. You give up Taj and Noah, you're giving up our two best front court defenders. All we'd have left is Asik and the hope that one of those Drummond/Robinson guys pans out to be a defensive force. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they'll be good defensively.

defense translates easier to the NBA than does offense imo

drummond is 6'10 260 and a good shot blocker....i think he'll pan out defensively

robinson is a good defender..under thibs he could be even better

The second reason that I'm hesitant is that we're losing our two best offensive rebounders. I realize that Boozer and Asik are good rebounders, but they don't quite give the same amount of hustle and effort in getting those loose balls as either Taj or Noah do. Boozer's a lazy puss, let's be real here. Asik can do a decent job because he's tall, but he's not starting material. We'd still be alright rebounding wise, but we won't be quite as good..

boozer will get more offensive boards because noah won't be clogging the paint to get them....i think boozer would benefit rebounding wise

robinson and drummond are both very good rebounders as well

tyreke is a good rebounder

the bulls would be fine because there are positives that would offset a small decrease in rebounding

The 3rd reason is that we then lose our frontcourt depth. We'd have a rotation of the rookie big man, Boozer, and Asik. Unless that rookie is a total stud, that rotation is meh and instead of having 3 great defenders we only have one, possibly 2. Also you could count on Noah and Taj to provide a little bit of offense. Asik, you can't rely on him for anything except bobbled catches and missed free throws. I have no idea if either Drummond or Robinson is going to be a 18-20 point scorer and a great defender/rebounder. If they are, then I guess I'll reconsider my position.

the rotation wouldn't be set, you could make further trades and transactions to get a backup big man(i would surprised if the bulls didn't do a follow up trade)

i think the frontcourt depth will be fine

basketball is now a guard's game...i'm fine with having a good duo in the backcourt that can create and change the dynamic of the offense while being solid on defense as well

Now I do realize I've completely overreacted to the whole thing, but the point of all this rambling is, is Tyreke really that good? Like I said before, I'll give up Noah for him in a heartbeat in that trade for the #5 pick. Noah and Taj I'm hesitant because we're just making another hole on the team that will need to be addressed.

true, but again you have rip and another one or two players as trade bait(i mean seriously when you have tyreke, **** rip..just **** him)

plus the top 5 pick is key..if it's like 13 the trade isn't nearly as good

Now if you make an immediate subsequent move to get another quality big man on the team perhaps using the non guaranteed contracts of Brewer/Korver/Watson, maybe it's a different story.

what's up with rip's contract?

 

[onebud34]

SMH

 

[clonetrooper264]

boozer will get more offensive boards because noah won't be clogging the paint to get them....i think boozer would benefit rebounding wise

robinson and drummond are both very good rebounders as well

tyreke is a good rebounder

the bulls would be fine because there are positives that would offset a small decrease in rebounding

That's fair. I'll take your word on those guys.

the rotation wouldn't be set, you could make further trades and transactions to get a backup big man(i would surprised if the bulls didn't do a follow up trade)

i think the frontcourt depth will be fine

You have to make a follow up move honestly. You can't expect to contend for the title if Omer is your starting C.

basketball is now a guard's game...i'm fine with having a good duo in the backcourt that can create and change the dynamic of the offense while being solid on defense as well

I agree. That's why I'm all for getting Evans. Like I said, I'm cool giving up Noah for him.

true, but again you have rip and another one or two players as trade bait(i mean seriously when you have tyreke, **** rip..just **** him)

Rip is pretty much worthless after the trade lol.

what's up with rip's contract?

It's an option of some sort after this year I believe. Perhaps non guaranteed, not sure. It is guaranteed for this upcoming year though. Brewer/Korver/Watson are all at least partially non guaranteed this year. I think the FO did that with possible moves in mind or if nothing else to be cheap and get out of luxury tax territory.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Yeah I see what you're coming from. I guess it depends too on what Sacto thinks of Evans going forward. If they're wanted to "get rid of him" so to speak for a defensive C/PF, then I think Noah might be enough. Is it a steal, sure it is, but I'm all about getting those steals in trades.

Noah isn't on the bench in the 4th that much, that was pretty much only early on in the season. Once he got his act together, it was him out there in the 4th with Gibson. If anyone should be getting blamed for getting paid a lot and sitting in the 4th it's Boozer. But we all knew that, right?

Evans doesn't have a large contract...yet. The moment it comes time to extend him (and I assume we'd want to keep him going forward) he's going to demand at least as much as Noah...probably a few million more. Though immediately, we get a little bit of space to work with, which is all fine and good.

Still prefer the Deng deal to the Noah one lol.

(@bolded) duh i know he'll get more....but having tyreke provides financial flexibility for a few years

when do you think he would be extended?

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Rip is pretty much worthless after the trade lol.

you think so? i think he and a backup perimeter guy packaged could get a defensive minded big man...

i dont think rip is necessarily valuable..but for what is needed..i think he could suffice

It's an option of some sort after this year I believe. Perhaps non guaranteed, not sure. It is guaranteed for this upcoming year though. Brewer/Korver/Watson are all at least partially non guaranteed this year. I think the FO did that with possible moves in mind or if nothing else to be cheap and get out of luxury tax territory.

thanks..i don't follow the finances as much as i should...