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:rolling:
houheffna
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I thought you didn't want Curry? WTF...you are giving me Wade's migraines. YOU wouldn't trade Taj for Curry, YOU said Curry wasn't a good fit on this team. Guy plays with Ellis but he can't play with Rose....OK. What makes you think they are giving up those guys for peanuts? And according to you Curry isn't worth peanuts! I don't get it...
did you look at the boxscores today? Gordon dropped 35 today. JR dropped 23. T-Mac 12...can you tell me what that means???
houheffna
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improvise concerning what?
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I'm was just sayong for the sake of argument that Curry would make the Bulls' better. I don't think that is even necessarily true. It would need to be some ridiculous deal like Curry for Korver or Brewer to make the Bulls that much better. I've already told you that I would consider giving up Gibson for Curry, but that I was afraid it would hurt the defense.
I was trying not to be argumentative, and just assuming against my better judgment that (a) we can get Curry, and (b) he would make them better.
What makes you think Curry can play with Ellis? That is an offense without a steady diet of scoring and a horrible defense.
Rose+Curry is suspect. In a 7-8 man rotation, how on earth could we beat a team with Curry and Rose playing 30+ minutes a piece against BOS, SA, or LAL, or MIA?
And about that DET-NYK boxscore, Ben Gordon is not going to go 7-for-11 for three every night. McGrady has been the much more consistent player for Detroit this season. A
And about that DEN-PHI boxscore, I noticed that Denver won by 11, yet scored 4 less points than the 76ers in the 31 minutes J.R. Smith was on the floor. Smith will have 4 games sucking from the field and then 1 game where he gets hot. Did you also notice that he took 5 more shots than Carmelo Anthony?
I haven't heard a peep out of you addressing the notion that Smith is a ballhog.
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Improvise because there is no decent starting SG available right now. GSW is not going to do the Gibson deal and neither would MEM (not getting into why I think Curry next to Rose would not work).
McGrady isn't even an option either. I regret the Bulls did not pick him up seeing as he is tons better than Bogans, but that ship has sailed.
The Bulls need to look at guys like J.R. Smith. I absolutely agree with that. But I diagree on the reason. Your reason is because you believe that he can play big minutes in a series with BOS or MIA. Mine is because he is a decent scoring option you can bring off the bench in limited playing time but MAINLY because he is an expiring contract.
There are more potential back-up SGs that the Bulls could look at. They already have a guy like Ronnie Brewer to play 30+ minutes in the playoffs. Getting an all-star is out of the question. They need to make a smaller deal to get Bogans out of the rotation.
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PS - DET was -18 last night during the time Ben Gordon was on the floor...
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Geez, not another Dook player
Shakes
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Well duh, he was on the floor for nearly the entire forth quarter in which the Knicks outscored the Pistons by 18. Gordon scored 8 points on 4 shots in the quarter, the rest of the Pistons scored 7 between them, but lets blame him for the loss.
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I'm not blaming him for the loss but my point is that I'm not saying that using a boxscore is not adequate reason to say that Ben Gordon > Tracy McGrady. The reason I used one first, earlier in the thread, was to dismiss this notion that McGrady can't play at all anymore. Because he has definitely proven that he can.
houheffna
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That wasn't your point at all. Your point was McGrady was better than JR Smith. And that is what you stated. And I pointed out that to use a boxscore from one game to make that statement is asinine. Which it most certainly is...
houheffna
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They don't need to make a deal to get Bogans out of the rotation...they can just remove Bogans from the rotation! That is what everyone has been saying for weeks now.
If Smith can play big minutes against Dallas and the Lakers, he can play big minutes against Boston and Miami. Why not? What makes you think he is incapable. As far as calling JR Smith a ballhog, that wouldn't make a difference with all of this second unit talk. But I believe Thibodeau can get a 25 year old player with a high skill level to play the way he wants him to play, or bench him. Fairly simple. If it was Vinny Del Negro coaching...maybe it will be different, but I believe Thibs can get through to the guy and with a new start. Smith can be a high level player. He is already a better all around player than Brewer. You can't have wing players who can't space out the defense. It just won't work.
If Rose and Gordon worked to a certain extent. I believe Rose and Curry would work very well. Especially if both continue to improve defensively.
Another thing. You continue to persist in pointing out one player's departure as a big loss to the defense, but the defense continues to roll on and improve without its best interior defender (NOT Taj Gibson as you stated previosly) Joakim Noah. To act or talk as if Gibson is so important to the defense is over the top. The team as a whole has excelled defensively.
And you shouldn't point out that Ben Gordon having a big night from 3 is so rare, but then post that McGrady almost had a triple double as if he's Magic Johnson. That was the whole point of trotting out a boxscore. Then to discredit the boxscore, you point to a hockey stat...when the lesson that should have been learned is that you don't trot out a boxscore from one game to analyze two players skills. Very rarely does that work.
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For the money, Tracy McGrady is definitely better. That isn't even worth arguing. And money aside, I still think he is better and you know why. You just won't own up to J.R. Smith being a chucker.
There are these ideas thrown out by you, as well as others in this thread, that McGrady cannot play anymore. That he would have offered nothing to the Bulls. That simply isn't true. Both McGrady and Smith could offer something to the Bulls if used correctly (both as 2nd unit players in very limited minutes).
I understand a lot of Bulls' fans are still pissed that he choose the Magic over us in the 2000 off-season. Even after Reinsdorf pulled out all the stops and sent cheerleaders and Benny the friggin' Bull to see the guy (making an ass out of the organization), he still preferred Orlando. And we Bulls' fans were God awful for a number of years because of that.
But just because we have bitter feelings about T-Mac doesn't mean that he would not have been a better choice over Keith Bogans... this guy has the compability of running an offense and has a nice pull-up jump shot. He is somewhat of a defensive liability now but no more than a guy like Ben friggin' Gordon... he is easy to hide defensively against the offenses of other 2nd unit teams.
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We shouldn't undermind the value Taj Gibson brings to the defense. He is capable of stepping out and defending most NBA small forwards and can defend some of the smaller NBA centers. He's an excellent shot-blocker, as well. Right now, I'd say that he is arguably the Bulls' best defensive player (even keeping in mind that Joakim Noah, Luol Deng, and Kurt Thomas are very good themselves). If you make that Curry for Gibson trade, sure, your interior defense can still get it done with guys like Noah, Thomas, and Asik [even Deng]. But inserting Curry into the defense really makes things complicated when you're going to need to find a way to defend a Rondo-Allen-Pierce or Chalmers-Wade-James perimeter.
Back onto Smith, yes, he is a much better option to defend those guys than Curry. But the problem may come with the offense. Now, I'd like to believe you are right about Thibodeau having the capability of taming J.R. Smith. The thing is that hasn't happened with George Karl. Smith has played good team ball in stretches and rewarded with more minutes only to see him lose big games for you down-the-stretch of the season. It's like a cycle with him: start to do well and know your role in the offense. Then chuck up 23 shots (and 11 three-point attempts) in a playoff game versus Utah and end up losing in 5 games. Granted- Karl was not coaching that series. But all I'm really trying to say is that Smith has tendencies of trying to get into his rhythym and says f*** the team. He is not the best pure spot-up shooter either. That was one of your complaints about McGrady; Smith is the same type of shooter and prefers to dribble into his shot. He is definitely a better shooter than McGrady, BUT he also needs a number of attempts to really get going. He may start 0-for-2 but by his 8th attempt, he might be 6-of-8. And the odds are that he will try to do all of that within a 5-minute span. And also, like McGrady, he is a much better transition shooter and finisher than in the half-court set. Is J.R. really going to be the guy to spread the floor for Rose, Boozer, and Deng? I have serious doubts about that...
The thing about Rose-Gordon is that it didn't work very well defensively. It didn't work in the Boston series or during the 2008-09 season. Offensively, they were very good and there's no doubt about that. Gordon had the ball in his hands way too often, but other than that it was great. But you cannot ignore how bad they were at the defensive end of the court...
Rose-Gordon doesn't equal Rose-Curry to me. I actually think that Rose-Curry might cause some issues offensively. For one thing, Curry is the better passer of the two. And he is the better shooter of the two. In order for it to work offensively, Curry would need to accept the premise of Rose needing to be the primary ball-handler and play-maker. The way that Ellis and Curry play in Golden State is more of a helter-skelter approach where whoever gets the ball first will first look to score in transition. And if that doesn't work then the one with the ball will try to set something up for the other. The reason Ellis averages a lot more points is because of the fact that Curry is such a great passer in transition. Ellis is much more turnover prone. But anyway... yeah... the Bulls would NEED a steady diet of something offensively with Rose and Curry. The problem of having a great shooting backcourt is that it becomes very easy to start settling for three-pointers. I'm not sure if I like that idea; but granted---that is just speculatory. The real issue with Rose-Curry is on the defensive end. One of those guys would be responsible for defending Dwyane Wade. One of those guys would be responsible for guarding Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili, or Kobe Bryant. Those are all players who can score in the paint and have a back-to-the-basket game with the ability to jump right over Curry (and maybe even Rose if you are Wade or Bryant). Manu and Allen would be a ***** for Rose to chase around and would definitely be able to shoot right over Curry. That's the main reason I'm not a fan of the Rose-Curry backcourt...
And, fine, the original inserting of the boxscore wasn't a good move. The only reason I was doing it was to show that McGrady was still capable of being effective when some posters on this thread said he was 'done.'
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