Bulls vs Heat Game 4 Discussion

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And just to play the devil's advocate, when a passionate fan in the midst of watching his team fail before his eyes sees someone come in and point out mistakes (not to say that it is wrong for you to do that), that person probably isn't going to respond well. If you're really pissed off about something and someone else just kind of adds to the problem, a natural response is to lash out at the person. It might all be misdirected anger, but it's not like Chicago fans are the only people out there that do that.
Agreed with the synopsis but that sounds more like something the angry person should/and could control rather than having the objective fan stop being level headed because it might upset the already angry/frustrated person.


In the end it's actions and consequences. If you are going to fly off the handle or say something that is wrong etc then be prepared to deal with it. I'm not saying "regret it" or "apologize" or whatever but just own the comments and don't blame other for being "too objective" in the face of your rant or the stuff that you posted that was just factually or logically incorrect.

"Passion" to me isn't a free pass to act like a raving lunatic then just being able to brush it off as "I'm a REAL fan! Anyone not acting like me isn't and I can't stand them!" That's a cop out and using your "passion" to simply mask the fact that you can't handle yourself watching a simple sporting event.

I just hate that meatball mentality.



Fair enough, I read it wrong. Woke up an hour ago and I guess my reading skills haven't fully woken up. xD
Don't blame you. I've been up since 6 and mine still aren't.
 

clonetrooper264

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Agreed with the synopsis but that sounds more like something the angry person should/and could control rather than having the objective fan stop being level headed because it might upset the already angry/frustrated person.


In the end it's actions and consequences. If you are going to fly off the handle or say something that is wrong etc then be prepared to deal with it. I'm not saying "regret it" or "apologize" or whatever but just own the comments and don't blame other for being "too objective" in the face of your rant or the stuff that you posted that was just factually or logically incorrect.

"Passion" to me isn't a free pass to act like a raving lunatic then just being able to brush it off as "I'm a REAL fan! Anyone not acting like me isn't and I can't stand them!" That's a cop out and using your "passion" to simply mask the fact that you can't handle yourself watching a simple sporting event.

I just hate that meatball mentality.




Don't blame you. I've been up since 6 and mine still aren't.

I guess for me the easiest way to go about it is to not jump over the angry guy for being angry and for them not to jump all over you for somehow being able to be level headed in a situation where most will not. It's of course easier said than done, but everyone should know that not everyone is them and they probably will not think the same way as you. That's not your fault or theirs.
 

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I think it's because most fans want to have a moment or two of intense anger/frustration/sadness before we become calm & objective/realistic again (if the fans want to, that is). It's like a release of all of the anxiety that built up while watching the games.

This pretty much nails it. I get wayyy built up during the games...and wanna yap for the sake of yapping after the games. I've been quick to admit to blaming the ref's irrationally during games...not b/c they're calling it one-sided, but b/c it's not what I want to see...Just gotta express the feelings of the moment...and a msg board is as safe a place to do that as any.

Bulls are getting beat by the team w/ better talent this series. We all knew deep down it was going to be really, really tough to beat the two and a half-headed monster the Heat have. Just wish there was a better performance from us in a few of these games.
 

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This pretty much nails it. I get wayyy built up during the games...and wanna yap for the sake of yapping after the games. I've been quick to admit to blaming the ref's irrationally during games...not b/c they're calling it one-sided, but b/c it's not what I want to see...Just gotta express the feelings of the moment...and a msg board is as safe a place to do that as any.

Bulls are getting beat by the team w/ better talent this series. We all knew deep down it was going to be really, really tough to beat the two and a half-headed monster the Heat have. Just wish there was a better performance from us in a few of these games.

Pretty much. No one likes to see their team fold down the stretch like we saw the past few games. It hurts.
 

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Enjoying the hell out of watching the games but not getting all tied up in the group think and hysteria around these sites and making this team into something more than it was. I was the one guy here before the season even started getting roasted for saying I'd still take the Heat in a 7 game series over the Bulls because the Heat were more talented and just deep enough to wear them down.

Granted I didn't see the Bulls getting the #1 seed but a lot of the reason people on this site are so pissed is they were on this site all season letting group think take over and getting too damn excited and as a result building this team bigger and bigger in their own minds.

People are pissed that the Bulls didn't live up to their expectations..when the expectations were set too high to begin with IMO. Before the season I realyl doubt many people felt the Bulls were a 60+ win team and a #1 seed in the East. They accomplished that, and that's great but that shouldhave been tempered all the way along with the fact that the Bulls were overachieving their initial expectations...that got forgotten somewhere along the line.

Now you have people on this site, the same ones who were beggin for/looking forward too/ getting all hyped over Lebron and maybe on or both of Wade and Bosh coming here acting butt hurt as hell they are in Miami and beating us. You also now have people wanting to trade for Dwight Howard when this site was so staunchly against getting Carmelo Anthony it was astounding. How much of a factor has Noah been in this series? How much of a factor would Melo have been as a legit wing scorer that can create? Watching the 180's on this board is dizzying.

This baor dis up in arms over officiating that isn't even bad. Seemingly every call that goes against the Bulls is a bad call..even though if they watched the play it was the right call. The Bulsl board seems to be having a mental breakdown.

The Bulls are a damn good team and were/are fun as hell to watch this season but that doesn't mean I have to lose all sense of rational thinking when evaluating this team and what it can or can't do.

The last time you were even posting on this forum was when you were so staunchly in-favor of a Deng/Noah for Anthony trade.

You were flat out wrong.

Noah wasn't to blame for the loss yesterday at all. The guy played 45 minutes and produced in every way he was expected to.
 

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Not OS

:shifty:

Just kidding.

I hate that place.


Very true..but then again if you want to post it then yo uhave to deal with the reprocussions and responses to it in an open forum.

Being a fan doesn't have to equate to ranting idiotically. That's meatballish stuff. Like I said earlier, Chicago fans like to think/say/brag they are one of the best fan bases in America. All I'm expecting is that they back it up.




Agreed. Chicago doesn't have the guys needed to execute a low 1-4 set...so it just becomes useless ISO up top.

Sorry about the delay...was out to lunch.
I'm not familiar w/OC, came here from the "official" Chicago MB's...all of which are pretty bad. I'm one that prefers calling into radio shows, mainly b/c it's quicker and I'm able to bounce ideas off former players etc.

Also, you could probably school me here on the NBA, I'm a football guy. Many forget that the Bulls were one bad call away from the finals w/o Jordan...that's how good they were. I bring this up b/c I have a question. Most fans knew going into the season that we were still a year away. Can a low 1-4 set be run effectively w/Rose and a D. Howard?...or do we need to reincarnate Pippen so to speak?. Looking at how that O is run, it appears either positional player would work.

Edit: In reference to your Howard comment, I said that b/c he is available plus big men that can score are rare. That's why I wanted Gasol several years ago.
 
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The last time you were even posting on this forum was when you were so staunchly in-favor of a Deng/Noah for Anthony trade.
And I still would be/am.

In a second.




Noah wasn't to blame for the loss yesterday at all. The guy played 45 minutes and produced in every way he was expected to.
You clearly still can't read. I never "blamed" any loss on Noah.

I asked how much of a factor Noah has been this series. Valid question. He's averaging 5ppg and 8rpg. On the flip side I asked hypothetically how much more of a factor would Anthony have had seeing as our biggest need is a dymanic/reliable wing scorer who can create. Congrats on missing the entire point of that part of this exchange.

And that Noah comment spoke to the bigger issue of all of a sudden a guy that this baord wouldn't trade for Carmelo they will now trade for Dwight...and still potentially leaving us a whole at the wing. I was pointing out knee jerk reactions of fans in terms of being willing to trade players.


Also, you could probably school me here on the NBA, I'm a football guy. Many forget that the Bulls were one bad call away from the finals w/o Jordan
They weren't that close. That Hue Hollins call wasn't in a deciding game...and wasn't even in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Most fans knew going into the season that we were still a year away. Can a low 1-4 set be run effectively w/Rose and a D. Howard?...or do we need to reincarnate Pippen so to speak?. Looking at how that O is run, it appears either positional player would work.
First the simple answer: Yes. Then again an elite big like Howard will more than likely make any set more effective. With Howards improved offensive game the defense has to respect the post a bit more and that would open up some more space on the wings and in corners for jumpshots.

However, the Bulls still need a true two #2 guard. A low 1-4 is going to be more effective when you have a wing capable of curling to the basket, catching and shooting from the wing/corner or creating off the dish. More often than not in a low 1-4, at least the way I've always run it, taught it, and been taught is that the second pass of the second penetration will be the best shot most times.

You'll have the initial penetration of the guard, kick to wing wing either has a look or secondary drive and you have screens and cuts off the back side. The Celtics run a really good variation of it with Rondo, Pierce and Allen at times.

Factor in that Rose can now hit threes/jumpers and it adds another variable to Rose curling back out of a screen after his initial pentration as well. When you face a team like the Heat who can defend Rose with James or Wade and not require the rest of the defense to help much then having stationary shooters on the edges doesn't do much good as the defense isn't required to help much and those shooters don't get many, if any, open looks. For that set to be effective against a team like the Heat you need someone capable of secondary penetration to make the defense shift, rotate, and work. Also, if that wing can pentrate you set yourself up for a possible "short close out" by the defense and that initial receiver has a bit more room, chance, and better look to get that shot off. Right now the way the Bulls are set up they don't have a viable penetration option off the first pass and with the defense not having to help much and being able to take hard closeouts at guys on the wings it's a tough set to have succeed at that high of a level.
 
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clonetrooper264

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The essence of trading Noah for Howard is that we would gain post play and a star without really losing anything. The perfect scenario is that we follow that with getting a SG thus having a good starting 5 of Rose, SG, Deng, Boozer, Howard while also getting star power. If you take out the crappy 4th quarter and OT of the last game, the Heat were pretty much only staying in the game due to their free throw shooting. They had like 21 ftas at halftime to our 8. With Howard we'd probably be able to do the same type of thing between him and Rose. Now would Carmelo have helped us? Yes. But would he be able to defend Lebron? Probably not, but I guess since Lebron is Lebron it doesn't matter since he's going to get his no matter what. In retrospect, I'd trade Deng for Melo, in fact, I'd probably do it now, but he didn't want to come here anyway. I guess I've rambled my way out of a point now...xD
 

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Who has done that?


And claiming people aren't fans because they don't fly off the handle and act stupid over every little thing even when its wrong isn't either.

I don't think I've called anyone here Special person during this entire Heat thing. Show me the post where I did and I will retract it but I really don't recall doing so.

I called him basketball Special person...and I stand by it.
 

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And that Noah comment spoke to the bigger issue of all of a sudden a guy that this baord wouldn't trade for Carmelo they will now trade for Dwight...and still potentially leaving us a whole at the wing. I was pointing out knee jerk reactions of fans in terms of being willing to trade players.

Dwight would bring more rebounds and points than Noah but Melo would bring his own points and spread the floor. Also, watching last night, the Bulls are containing the area under the rim pretty well on defense, so Dwight's talent there wouldn't be a huge difference, regardless of how good he is at blocking.
 

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People are pissed that the Bulls didn't live up to their expectations..when the expectations were set too high to begin with IMO. Before the season I really doubt many people felt the Bulls were a 60+ win team and a #1 seed in the East. They accomplished that, and that's great but that should have been tempered all the way along with the fact that the Bulls were overachieving their initial expectations...that got forgotten somewhere along the line.
I was expecting, at best, 50-55 wins and them getting the #3 seed. Never would have thought Boston would trade Perkins and fade the way they did. Never would have thought Miami would get off to the slow start they did (actually thought they would be the ones to fade towards the end).

The Bulls overachieved. Plain and simple. Couldn't agree more with what you and hou have been saying in this thread since the game ended.

Somehow or another, the sun came up today.
 

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Us passionate fans shouldn't come under fire for voicing our frustrations by the "objective" snobs who fashion themselves wannabe ESPN NBA TV commentators. This is a place for Chicago sports fans, not national wannabe's who don't work for a network to act like they do.
meatball_sweden.jpg
 

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