Chiefs game shows why Bears should have drafted Tunsil not Floyd

[Raskolnikov]

Fuck, let it go who cares about Tunsil he's on another team.

Its another example of Pace incompetence. Tunsil fell to us at 11 and he trades up to 9 for a player that will be skinny, injury prone, and underwhelming. He isn't capable of making intricate decisions on the fly.

I didn't have Tunsil on my board at 11, but when it happened and people are discussing "marijuana mask" images from 3 years ago...you fucking take him. Especially when you need lineman.

I did have Hargreaves, Bullard, Alexander, Prescott, Coleman, Henry and a bunch of guys you will see pan out on what I keep on a tight draft board of about 20-25 players for all 7 rounds.

And I'm on record about Prescott being a steal because he had virtually no LT all of last season and still succeeded to an extent. He put Miss. St. on the map, beat Ole Miss...did alot of shit Pace should have seen coming. Instead we draft THREEE!!!!! mid round DB's....three....another running back and a MLB when its a position of strength.

I'm just at a loss.

Whitehair is playing well, and it calms me some.

 

[Raskolnikov]

It looks to me like Pace takes a chance on players who have the chance to be catalysts in the first round, while making solid picks in the mid rounds to ensure that the draft doesnt bust like we saw with many of JA's drafts. His midround selections are looking good so far - Goldman is fantastic, and Whitehair and Bullard are looking good. Grasu is out for the year so we cannot evaluate his progress yet.

However, I disagree that Floyd was an unnecessary pick. Who knows how long we are going to be keeping around Houston, Young and McPhee? Sure we resigned Young, but Floyd is a speed rusher who we can have for eight years or more, and who will be in his prime when we (theoretically) are back in SB contention. And it isnt like Pace picked him while disregarding the opinions of his coaches; If his defensive-minded head coach and top-notch DC were not on board, there is no way that Pace would have traded up to grab Floyd.

Grasu is a total disaster.

 

[Ej63090]

Grasu is a total disaster.

A rookie center that was drafting knowing he needed development, was thrown into action much earlier than anticipated and struggled in year one. Tore ACL in t.c. in year 2.

Grasu is an unknown at best. Likely won't pan out at this point, but to call him a total disaster is unfair.

Brandon Hardin, Will Sutton, Jon bostic, kaseem Greene, jarron Gilbert, juaquin Iglesias, garret Wolfe are total disasters.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

I like Pace but he's used too many high picks on players who suck.

1) Kevin "Peg Leg" White. Can't gain separation from NFL DB's. I called this on draft day. He'll be lucky to have 400 yards receiving this year.

2) Erroneous "Pencil Neck" Grasu. The guy is obviously garbage and never stood a chance.

3) Leonard "Pogo Stick" Floyd. The Joakim Noah of the NFL. Why anyone with two working eyes would trade up to select a guy who sucks is beyond me.

But I'm a huge fan of Whitehair, Goldman and Bullard. He nailed those three picks - big time. I just wish we didn't GM's who draft players who obviously won't make it. Whether it's Shea McLellin, Brandon Hardin, Erroneous Grasu or Pogo Stick Floyd -- it's obvious to every one they have bust written all over them.

 

[Ej63090]

I like Pace but he's used too many high picks on players who suck.

1) Kevin "Peg Leg" White. Can't gain separation from NFL DB's. I called this on draft day. He'll be lucky to have 400 yards receiving this year.

2) Erroneous "Pencil Neck" Grasu. The guy is obviously garbage and never stood a chance.

3) Leonard "Pogo Stick" Floyd. The Joakim Noah of the NFL. Why anyone with two working eyes would trade up to select a guy who sucks is beyond me.

But I'm a huge fan of Whitehair, Goldman and Bullard. He nailed those three picks - big time. I just wish we didn't GM's who draft players who obviously won't make it. Whether it's Shea McLellin, Brandon Hardin, Erroneous Grasu or Pogo Stick Floyd -- it's obvious to every one they have bust written all over them.

Didn't Joakim Noah win DPOY?

 

[gallagher]

Its another example of Pace incompetence. Tunsil fell to us at 11 and he trades up to 9 for a player that will be skinny, injury prone, and underwhelming. He isn't capable of making intricate decisions on the fly.

I like Pace but he's used too many high picks on players who suck.
...
3) Leonard "Pogo Stick" Floyd. The Joakim Noah of the NFL. Why anyone with two working eyes would trade up to select a guy who sucks is beyond me.

This article has a couple quotes from Ryan Pace after this past first round. Notable among them are:

"It's huge. Vic [Fangio] likes this guy a lot as does [outside linebackers coach] Clint Hurtt, so both those guys are excellent coaches. So, it just gives me a lot of confidence when we bring a guy like this into the building for them to further develop the player."

and

"[Coach Fox] has been pounding the table to add these types of guys for a while now."

So yeah, our top notch DC, excellent LB Coach, and esteemed, defensive-minded HC all were in support of grabbing Floyd. They get paid millions of dollars to coach football players and come with a track record of success. Moreover, they have actual skin in the game - If Floyd busts, any and all of these guys could lose their jobs. I can't think of one reason that the opinions of a couple of randoms on a message board carry more weight than Fox, Fangio and Hurtt.

 

[Matt Suhey]

This article has a couple quotes from Ryan Pace after this past first round. Notable among them are:



and



So yeah, our top notch DC, excellent LB Coach, and esteemed, defensive-minded HC all were in support of grabbing Floyd. They get paid millions of dollars to coach football players and come with a track record of success. Moreover, they have actual skin in the game - If Floyd busts, any and all of these guys could lose their jobs. I can't think of one reason that the opinions of a couple of randoms on a message board carry more weight than Fox, Fangio and Hurtt.

I am not suggesting Floyd was a bad pick but my beef with the org is that Fox as a defensive HC is mistakenly putting the emphasis on D when in this draft when everyone knows QB is the most important position and QB's need the best possible LT's to protect their blind side in order to get the best out of them. This is an era of offense and IMO they should make that the priority instead of defense. Its a matter IMO and making the BEST POSSIBLE decision as opposed to a good decision vs a bad decision.

 

[gallagher]

It is fair to discuss whether taking a top-graded OL would have been a better decision than grabbing an athletic pass rusher. I was responding to the posts that the negative posters that are making guarantees that Floyd is going to suck.

And hell Floyd may end up busting. We can't know for certain. But smart GMs pay attention to their coaches on draft day, and the Bears coaches wanted Floyd.

 

[Ej63090]

It is fair to discuss whether taking a top-graded OL would have been a better decision than grabbing an athletic pass rusher. I was responding to the posts that the negative posters that are making guarantees that Floyd is going to suck.

And hell Floyd may end up busting. We can't know for certain. But smart GMs pay attention to their coaches on draft day, and the Bears coaches wanted Floyd.

Could this theory explain Emery's failures? Relying on Tucker for defense prospect input?

 

[onebud34]

A rookie center that was drafting knowing he needed development, was thrown into action much earlier than anticipated and struggled in year one. Tore ACL in t.c. in year 2.

Grasu is an unknown at best. Likely won't pan out at this point, but to call him a total disaster is unfair.

Brandon Hardin, Will Sutton, Jon bostic, kaseem Greene, jarron Gilbert, juaquin Iglesias, garret Wolfe are total disasters.

How can you forget Dan Bauzin?

 

[Tjodalv]

Could this theory explain Emery's failures? Relying on Tucker for defense prospect input?

Emery was simply a "physicality first" Gm. He assumed that if you drafted guys who were huge, strong, and fast that the coaches could teach them to be great players. Hardin; fast and big for his position but always injured and just not a great player. Long; physical monster who can really move but had very little experience. Bostic; another fast hard hitter who just isn't good. Greene; converted safety who is fast as fuck for a LB but just doesn't seem to have "gotten it." And so on.

Sure, he hit on Long, but that draft philosophy tends not to work out extremely well -- if they were coachable and had the talent they would show more in college.

 

[gallagher]

Could this theory explain Emery's failures? Relying on Tucker for defense prospect input?

It could. Tucker was not that good as a DC for us outside a few games. But looking at our situation right now, our defensive staff comes with a track record of success. Fangio's opinion on defensive talent (e.g. Floyd) is something a young GM should rely on when trying to rebuild a franchise that has been drafting poorly over the previous decade.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Emery was simply a "physicality first" Gm. He assumed that if you drafted guys who were huge, strong, and fast that the coaches could teach them to be great players. Hardin; fast and big for his position but always injured and just not a great player. Long; physical monster who can really move but had very little experience. Bostic; another fast hard hitter who just isn't good. Greene; converted safety who is fast as fuck for a LB but just doesn't seem to have "gotten it." And so on.

Sure, he hit on Long, but that draft philosophy tends not to work out extremely well -- if they were coachable and had the talent they would show more in college.

Yeah...he thought he invented a system to measure more advanced athtleiticsm, but it still lacked many many aspects of coordination and being a great athlete from a physcial and mental stand point.

He may have had a piece of the puzzle with it, but thinkiing he had it figured out and not expanding his player criteria was his downfall.

 

[Ej63090]

Yeah...he thought he invented a system to measure more advanced athtleiticsm, but it still lacked many many aspects of coordination and being a great athlete from a physcial and mental stand point.

He may have had a piece of the puzzle with it, but thinkiing he had it figured out and not expanding his player criteria was his downfall.

It seems like Pace likes similar players, Kevin white and Leonard Floyd are both physical freaks, but he balances those out with good instinct football players: whitehair, Goldman, Bullard, & Amos.

 

[gallagher]

He may have had a piece of the puzzle with it, but thinkiing he had it figured out and not expanding his player criteria was his downfall.

For certain - he hit HARD with Long, but it never felt like his player choices aligned with what the coaches were scheming for. The Shea McClellin pick will always remain a head-scratcher.

 

[Ej63090]

How can you forget Dan Bauzin?

I didn't really want to use 2nd rounders, but I guess you can throw Ego & Dan in there too.

 

[gallagher]

I think at this point it is unfair to call Ego and Sutton bad picks - they were drafted for a different defensive scheme that was run by a poor DC. Right now they are the classic square peg, round hole.

They could still go somewhere else and be successful, but they wont get released/traded until better young players are on the roster.

 

[legendxofxlink]

I am not suggesting Floyd was a bad pick but my beef with the org is that Fox as a defensive HC is mistakenly putting the emphasis on D when in this draft when everyone knows QB is the most important position and QB's need the best possible LT's to protect their blind side in order to get the best out of them. This is an era of offense and IMO they should make that the priority instead of defense. Its a matter IMO and making the BEST POSSIBLE decision as opposed to a good decision vs a bad decision.

11 of the top 12 defenses last year in scoring made the playoffs... The only missing top 12 defense, being the Jets, just barely missed out. The other team that made the playoffs, Redskins, didnt belong and were beaten 35-18 in their first game...... Seems you have it completely backwards

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Didn't Joakim Noah win DPOY?

Joakim Noah is 7'2 and 113 pounds. Perfect for an NFL edge rusher!


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[Gustavus Adolphus]

I like when posters on the internet talk about their draft boards and scouting reports.