Chiefs Trading Tyreek Hill to Dolphins

[TL1961]

Isn’t it possible that Poles is a young first year GM, and he may be thinking he’s smarter than everyone else by not signing top tier talent and it could blow up in his face and ruin or set back Fields?

Kinda like when Emery thought he was outsmarting everyone with the McClellin pick and Pace with the Trubisky trade up and pick?

Maybe I’ve just been a bears fan too long to think our GM is smarter than every other GM

Jesus you must be fun at parties!

 

[Bear_Assed]

It sucks that Tom Brady and Russell Wilson and Josh Allen never had No 1 WRs their first few years in the NFL. It really hurt their development. Like how is it possible Josh Allen didn't fall apart before Diggs arrived in his 3rd year? And how is it possible Brady won Super Bowls with Deion Branch as his best WR? And how was Russ able to cook without the right WR ingredients before Lockett and DK came along?

If you need to use two of three first ballet hall of famers to prove your point it’s not worth discussing.

Let’s just trade fields and get a new QB in the sixth rd. It work well for New England!

 

[Bear_Assed]

Jesus you must be fun at parties!

Lol thanks?

 

[TL1961]

If you have a franchise QB then you trade that WR for picks and you draft other WRs. Hence why KC dumped him. If Mahomes is a great QB then he doesn't need Hill. This makes sense for Miami because they have loads of draft capital but even so I would never pay a WR 30m a year period. WR has been one of the deepest positions the last few years and with more and more spread concepts in the NFL, the transition to the NFL for WRs has gotten easier IMO.

There have been super bowl winners with really good/great WRs, but the WR isn’t what won the SB. QBs make the difference which we all know. WR making $30 million? Insane.

 

[bufordht]

No one?

Ya, cuz if your first read is open, you throw it and don't progress through the rest of your progression. You only go through the whole profession of each option is covered.

Really surprised I had to explain that...

 

[TL1961]

If Mooney is not a number 1 which most people feel is the case, then thats really going to hurt fields development. Which is too bad because he’s the most important player this team has likely had in decades. Just a reminder, QB is the most important position in all of sports. Most teams know you have to surround your young QBs with legit playmakers to maximize their potential.

If poles doesn’t think bears are ready to compete why did he guarantee $26 mil to a DT?

It wasn’t a one year deal.

 

[Bear_Assed]

It wasn’t a one year deal.

??

 

[TL1961]

Tom Brady also has a wife that makes more than he does. Gisele is worth 400m. Tom can play for league minimum and be set for life. Connect those dots.

He would also be set for many lives if his wife was broke playing for the salary he has.

Let’s not pretend a guy making $20 million + per year needs a wife making more.

 

[TL1961]

??

You criticized a deal with a DT based on salary because they’re not contending in 2022.

He didn’t offer the DT a contract for only 2022.

Do you really think they look at it and say “we’re not gonna contend in 2022 we will acquire every single player we need in 2023 or 2024”?

 

[Bear_Assed]

You criticized a deal with a DT based on salary because they’re not contending in 2022.

He didn’t offer the DT a contract for only 2022.

Do you really think they look at it and say “we’re not gonna contend in 2022 we will acquire every single player we need in 2023 or 2024”?

Ah ok. I see your point. But to me, if I wasnt going to spend big except for a single player in FA this year, it would be on offensive to help Fields progression and evaluation. And it definitely wouldn’t be for a defensive player coming off a serious injury which ultimately prevents the player from being able to pass a physical.

People are acting like ogunjobi is the only 3 tech in the nfl because poles made him the only priority in his first offseason. Why not use your “big splash” signing on offense and wait for the draft or next offseason for your 3 tech ?

 

[remydat]

My point is, if there isn’t a #1 available in FA and you don’t have a first rd pick, get more than just Pringles in FA to help your 2nd year QB instead of guaranteeing $26 mil to a DT in a rebuild year.

Cooper is not on the cowboys anymore. Did u know that? Both Williams and Gallup would be a #1 if brought in. Regardless they weren’t leaving their teams and I get that. I wasn’t expecting it. Sorry if that’s how you interpreted my post.

Is FA over? What if based on their evaluations the guys they expect to be available in the draft they have as better fits than a FA WR. Should they just go against their evals just to appease you. Perhaps you should simply wait until FA and the draft are over before you get to worked up about this.

I suspect their were not overly enamored with the FA options, will wait to see if the asking price on any guys they like come down and if not just see how the draft unfolds. Once the dust settles after the draft they may take stock as all teams do and then see if someone they like becomes available.

What I don't get is this assumption they like or want the same WRs you do. What I also don't get is to keep harping on Ogun when his deal had **** all to do with whether they signed a WR or not. The deal fell thru there were still WRs available and THEY DIDN'T FUCKING WANT THEM OBVIOUSLY.

So in the end you are twisting and turning and coming up with all sorts of rationalizations when the reality is this simply boils down to them not liking the guys you apparently do. Time will tell whether you or they were right.

 

[remydat]

Ah ok. I see your point. But to me, if I wasnt going to spend big except for a single player in FA this year, it would be on offensive to help Fields progression and evaluation. And it definitely wouldn’t be for a defensive player coming off a serious injury which ultimately prevents the player from being able to pass a physical.

People are acting like ogunjobi is the only 3 tech in the nfl because poles made him the only priority in his first offseason. Why not use your “big splash” signing on offense and wait for the draft or next offseason for your 3 tech ?

Why? Probably because their eval on Ogun was higher than their eval on the WRs. Let's use a simple example. If they had an 85 grade on Ogun but a 70 grade on a WR, who should they target?

If you need to use two of three first ballet hall of famers to prove your point it’s not worth discussing.

Let’s just trade fields and get a new QB in the sixth rd. It work well for New England!

But you aren't using anything to prove your point. You are just spouting off personal musings and assuming they are NFL fact. At some point the Bears will acquire better WRs. There is no law that says it has to be this season or a FA. There are hundreds of examples of teams doing that and hundreds of examples of teams being more patient like the examples I gave you.

It is fine if your preference was to get a WR now. It is also fine if Poles preference is to only get a WR he really believes in. The problem you have is Poles is the GM. You are free though to try and put in the work to be the next Bears GM if Poles fails.

Mind you I have no problem with criticizing Poles if he fucks up. I am just saying you whining and whining on March 26, 2022 as if you already have evidence he fucked up. You don't. Why? Because it is fucking March 26, 2022. We aren't close to having a final roster in place dude so just fucking chill until the roster building for this year is further along. Like imagine if he traded for DK then all your crying would look pretty fucking stupid. We get it, you are disappointed at this point in time. Noted. But give Poles some rope and let's see if he hangs himself or uses it to reel in some talent when we are further enough along to evaluate his decisions.

 

[bufordht]

Ah ok. I see your point. But to me, if I wasnt going to spend big except for a single player in FA this year, it would be on offensive to help Fields progression and evaluation. And it definitely wouldn’t be for a defensive player coming off a serious injury which ultimately prevents the player from being able to pass a physical.

People are acting like ogunjobi is the only 3 tech in the nfl because poles made him the only priority in his first offseason. Why not use your “big splash” signing on offense and wait for the draft or next offseason for your 3 tech ?

I wonder if having a defense keep you in games so you're not one dimensional and can run your whole offense would help a young QB...

I wonder if not having a single player signed at the most important position on defense is reason enough to sign one...

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Isn’t it possible that Poles is a young first year GM, and he may be thinking he’s smarter than everyone else by not signing top tier talent and it could blow up in his face and ruin or set back Fields?

Kinda like when Emery thought he was outsmarting everyone with the McClellin pick and Pace with the Trubisky trade up and pick?

Maybe I’ve just been a bears fan too long to think our GM is smarter than every other GM

Of course it’s possible.

But it’s just as possible he knows exactly what he’s doing.

None of us really know, and we won’t know for a couple of years.

 

[Toast88]

Ya, cuz if your first read is open, you throw it and don't progress through the rest of your progression. You only go through the whole profession of each option is covered.

Really surprised I had to explain that...

You mock while forgetting about the last option of your progression. Really surprised I had to explain that.

Besides. you didn’t read the whole sentence.

“Hard to go through the progression and find an open receiver if there is no open receiver.” You’re not finding an open receiver if there isn’t an open receiver.

But enough of the semantics. You still really going to stick by your claim that a good receiver can’t help a quarterback’s growth?

Seems like a weird hill to die on, but I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree on that.

Think how much Mahomes’ development wasn’t helped by Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce and Sammy Watkins, right?

 

[remydat]

Elite WRs can help a QB develop and can hinder a QB from developing. It all depends. If an elite WR becomes a crutch then it could stunt a QB's growth. They don't have to get better at progressions or reading defenses when they can just chuck it to an ARob (looking at you Trubisky).

However, if a QB still goes thru progressions and still puts in the work to read defenses then obviously an elite WR like Hill or TE like Kelce is also going to benefit.

In the end though, it still mostly comes down to the innate ability of the QB and their capacity to learn and develop. If Fields is the real deal then he can develop with Mooney, Pringle, etc. and he can develop with better WRs as well. The latter probably just spends up the development a bit.

 

[Toast88]

Elite WRs can help a QB develop and can hinder a QB from developing. It all depends. If an elite WR becomes a crutch then it could stunt a QB's growth. They don't have to get better at progressions or reading defenses when they can just chuck it to an ARob (looking at you Trubisky).

However, if a QB still goes thru progressions and still puts in the work to read defenses then obviously an elite WR like Hill or TE like Kelce is also going to benefit.

In the end though, it still mostly comes down to the innate ability of the QB and their capacity to learn and develop. If Fields is the real deal then he can develop with Mooney, Pringle, etc. and he can develop with better WRs as well. The latter probably just spends up the development a bit.

All fair points. Not arguing that an elite receiver can’t become a crutch for a young QB. Literally just arguing against the laughable declarative claim that a good receiver can’t help a QB’s growth.

This is the non-controversial statement I made that apparently means I’m an idiot:

It takes two. A good receiver can help a quarterback's growth, and a good quarterback can help a receiver's growth, even if each is ultimately responsible for his own success or failure.

The notion that good players can help the growth of other players is apparently foreign.

How does a good receiver help a QB grow?

Message boards are so strange sometimes.

 

[bufordht]

You mock while forgetting about the last option of your progression. Really surprised I had to explain that.

Besides. you didn’t read the whole sentence.

“Hard to go through the progression and find an open receiver if there is no open receiver.” You’re not finding an open receiver if there isn’t an open receiver.

But enough of the semantics. You still really going to stick by your claim that a good receiver can’t help a quarterback’s growth?

Seems like a weird hill to die on, but I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree on that.

Think how much Mahomes’ development wasn’t helped by Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce and Sammy Watkins, right?

Finding the last open man and getting a completion helps stats. Stats don't equal development. Going through the progression is the point. Reading the d, knowing where to go with the ball is the point. In 2022 I don't really care if the receiver is open or not. I care whether Fields knew where to go with the ball or not.