Coaching Incompetence Showing Up Again

[SugarWalls]

You'd have a point if this year was the only year that mattered. And the "factually incorrect" thing i posted was from the same article YOU just linked.

You're brushing off a 5.5 m cap savings for the following season like that wouldn't play a part in their decision.

They took a dead cap hit but that doesn't come close to what they're saving over the remainder of his contract.

How am I brushing it off when I literally said they traded him to clear the money off of next years books???? Did you not read that I wrote that before you even realized it??? Just scroll up and read the point I made again, and realize I mid this point before you did. You were the one that was trying to convince me they were saving money this year and now you have completely pivoted because you were wrong and you didn't know there was a dead cap hit, and that has been proven because you linked multiple posts stating there was a 4 million dollar savings this year. I didn't share that part of the article because I knew about the dead money.

Now that we both understand and agree they did it to save money for next year., the point you are now unwilling to have any conversation about is how the Bills viewed Bates. Paying 4 million for a starting caliber guard than can also play center in a pinch is not that much money, particularly considering what the top level players have been signing for the last few years.

However, 4 million dollars for a BACK UP is insanely expensive, and this is why they wanted the money off the books. Bates was not in the Bills plans to be a starter, and so he was moved for a 5th round pick. Yes, he was moved to clear money off of NEXT years books, even though the Bills had an insane crunch this year, he was moved because 4 million for a guy to sit on the bench is not good money.

 

[Spitta Andretti]

So Bates is going to disappoint?

Yes or no?

Was your quote not that he would be "as disappointing as Lucas Patrick"?

Now you're trying to walk the shit back because you realize how low of a bar that is for him to beat.

 

[Spitta Andretti]

How am I brushing it off when I literally said they traded him to clear the money off of next years books???? Did you not read that I wrote that before you even realized it??? Just scroll up and read the point I made again, and realize I mid this point before you did. You were the one that was trying to convince me they were saving money this year and now you have completely pivoted because you were wrong and you didn't know there was a dead cap hit, and that has been proven because you linked multiple posts stating there was a 4 million dollar savings this year. I didn't share that part of the article because I knew about the dead money.

Now that we both understand and agree they did it to save money for next year., the point you are now unwilling to have any conversation about is how the Bills viewed Bates. Paying 4 million for a starting caliber guard than can also play center in a pinch is not that much money, particularly considering what the top level players have been signing for the last few years.

However, 4 million dollars for a BACK UP is insanely expensive, and this is why they wanted the money off the books. Bates was not in the Bills plans to be a starter, and so he was moved for a 5th round pick. Yes, he was moved to clear money off of NEXT years books, even though the Bills had an insane crunch this year, he was moved because 4 million for a guy to sit on the bench is not good money.

So they replaced him with a guy who makes even less and was also a backup level player.

Aka the cheaper option

 

[ILoveDick]

Was your quote not that he would be "as disappointing as Lucas Patrick"?

Now you're trying to walk the shit back because you realize how low of a bar that is for him to beat.

Bro, you got effing dunked on by a couple of posters tonight.

Be better tomorrow.

 

[Spitta Andretti]

Bro, you got effing dunked on by a couple of posters tonight.

Be better tomorrow.

Mentions Lucas Patrick

Runs away before even stating what the bet is.

"Will Bates disappoint" is not a bet, moron.

 

[Spitta Andretti]

No. It's over/under Ryan Bates. On pass and run block grades. You're the one who took issue with me saying he's going to be disappointing - put up, or shut up.

Here's you being a pussy and being vague.

Over/under what? Lucas Patrick. Because that's what your dumb ass was stating before

 

[IBleedBearsBlood]

Poles spent a 5th rounder for Bates. We’ll see if it’s another wasted trade.

Good trade. He’s here to just be plugged in for one year and be a great backup center and guard next year. At least you know what you have with that 5th round pick. A decent back up. Better than taking a risk with a rookie, especially if it doesn’t pan out.

 

[Chicago Staleys]

Sounds like a GM problem. Not a Coach problem

 

[TL1961]

Coleman Shelton's listed at 6'5" 285lbs, most NFL centers are around 300lbs so Ryan Bates (6'4 302lb) at least fits that profile. Shelton is undersized and has been getting dominated. He should only be the backup, and should not be getting most of the reps with Caleb just because Nate Davis doesn't like practice.

If Ja'Tyre Carter, Bill Murray, or Jerome Carvin aren't better options to play right guard, why are they even on the roster?

This "Top 10" offensive line the Bears are supposed to have is basically the weakest group on the team at this point. Even more so than the Defensive line, which at least seems to have quality starters like Billings & Sweat, a reliable vet like Walker, plus encouraging young players like Dexter & Booker.

Get it together 's

I have to admit "Why are backups even on the roster if they're not better than the starter?" is an interesting angle.

 

[napo55]

Sounds like a GM problem. Not a Coach problem

Absolutely. (See my post, #41.) Apparently people on this message board are quick to critize the coaching but too timid to criticize Ryan Poles, the GM. I think Poles has done some very good things, but he's also made mistakes.

 

[Xplosive]

I have to admit "Why are backups even on the roster if they're not better than the starter?" is an interesting angle.

Why are backup guards on the team if they aren't even better than the starting center playing out of position actually

Basically Coleman is undersized for Center and Bates is undersized for right guard but he can play it in a pinch. If all the other full time guards are worse than him, they need to be cut asap.

 

[Xplosive]

Green Bay: TJ Dalton 339lb, Kenny Clark 313lb

Detroit: DJ Reader 327lbs, Alim McNeil 315lbs

Vikings: Harrison Phillips 307, Jerry Tillery 295lbs

Chris Jones 310lbs
Dexter Lawrence 340lbs
Quinnen Williams 303lbs
Christian Wilkins 310lbs
Grady Jarrett 305lbs
Derrick Brown 320lbs
Justin Madubuike 305lbs
Jalen Carter 314lbs

This offensive line is weak and undersized.
285lb Center + 302lb RG = constant pressure in the face of the QB. The coaches need to leave Bates at Center, make Shelton his backup, and tell Poles that the other guards on the team obviously suck (since none can beat out Bates) and the team needs an immediate upgrade.

 

[run and shoot]

I mentioned above.... "Shelton can easily put on / add 15lbs of muscle through proper diet and weight training."

proper diet i.e. weight gain supplements & weight training.

you came back with PED's ( which is illegal).....followed by you saying "actually... still probably wouldn't get it done"

Hence my question.......so for u....it's not body weight ?
In other words, regardless of weight/ size, it sounds like u don't see Shelton as a good fit at the center position....is that correct or do mean, in your opinion he can't add on 15lbs legally ??

BTW.....yes, one can add on lots of weight through weight gain supplements & weight training. I know from personal experience.

Oh, you didn't have the question mark the first time, but with the clarification, here is what I meant:

It has nothing to do with Shelton... per se. I think it is quite impossible for a 29 year old male who has been lifting weights for probably over a decade to "easily put on/ add 15lbs of muscle". Even loaded with tons of gear, 15 lbs of muscle on a physically already muscular male is a very tall ask. That type of muscle mass added is usually only doable by someone who hasn't even looked at a weight before in their lives.

I have no opinion of Shelton as a player really other than what others have told me about him. Seems like he's a fairly average guy who has been on successful teams. Don't hate him... don't love him. Don't have a strong opinion at all really and hopefully he does alright for us.

Here's where the discussion started....#24
Coleman Shelton's listed at 6'5" 285lbs, most NFL centers are around 300lbs so Ryan Bates (6'4 302lb) at least
-@Xplosive
-------------------------------

"It has nothing to do with Shelton... per se. I think it is quite impossible for a 29 year old male who has been lifting weights for probably over a decade to "easily put on/ add 15lbs of muscle". Even loaded with tons of gear, 15 lbs of muscle on a physically already muscular male is a very tall ask."
-DefNextYear

I have personal experience with weight training and weight gaining supplements yrs ago. I had to dial it back because I was getting to big (to muscular), No...I'm not trying to funny I was at a point where I was going to need new clothes. The Bears training staff should be to put Shelton on program where he can gain more muscular weight.

 

[run and shoot]

Why are backup guards on the team if they aren't even better than the starting center playing out of position actually

Basically Coleman is undersized for Center and Bates is undersized for right guard but he can play it in a pinch. If all the other full time guards are worse than him, they need to be cut asap.

"Basically Coleman is undersized for Center and Bates is undersized for right guard"
-Xplosive

This falls on the Bears training staff. Size can be added

 

[Xplosive]

It's still early in the season but I would bench Shelton and Davis... Start Bates and Pryor/Murray.

 

[Les Grossman]

I think most figured/knew/worried that the OL wasn't addressed enough in the offseason. It's been a weakness for years.

Furthermore, stepping back and looking at the issue from the clouds, maybe it's Chris Morgan that's the biggest problem here rn.

 

[dennehy]

On the flipside, the DL was arguably the most impactful unit on the field yesterday (I think only ST has a valid claim) and I think many thought they were the weakest unit a couple weeks ago.

 

[discplayer]

I think most figured/knew/worried that the OL wasn't addressed enough in the offseason. It's been a weakness for years.

Furthermore, stepping back and looking at the issue from the clouds, maybe it's Chris Morgan that's the biggest problem here rn.

I agree that next year's draft - and off season FA - MUST now be weighted heavily toward OL... While we may (?) still need a DE, Poles and Cunningham have largely taken care of many other needs. We have weapons for CW. Now let's protect him and open holes for our running game.

 

[Nelly]

On the flipside, the DL was arguably the most impactful unit on the field yesterday (I think only ST has a valid claim) and I think many thought they were the weakest unit a couple weeks ago.

First games are always crazy. Darrell Taylor looked like his first name was Lawrence and both Andrew Billings and Gervon Dexter looked unstoppable at times. Can we expect to see that game in and game out? Probably not, just like I wouldn't expect Coleman Shelton to get ragdolled every game.

I think the main negative to take away from the game is that Nate Davis really appears to be a clear FA bust. We brought him in to be a good presence in the middle of the line and he's been a bottom tier guy.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

On the flipside, the DL was arguably the most impactful unit on the field yesterday (I think only ST has a valid claim) and I think many thought they were the weakest unit a couple weeks ago.

They played smart. You notice after halftime they figured out who to pick on on that oline and exposed them.