Commute to Work

[Enasic]

8-10 minute commute...before that it was an hour to an hour and a half depending on the job site.

 

[ShiftyDevil]

Like I said, my experience is the opposite of your team. It's not just my experience, but that of a number of people I worked with, friends, etc. And none of them were stuck in rooms with only "chat/phone". So I'm thinking your experience is more due to poorly planned WFH methods, because I know far too many people IRL who would never give it up, and every single one of them is happier, more productive, and better rested. And most of them are caught up on TV shows LOL. That's more money in their pocket, more money in the companies pocket. So yes, if it fails, I don't blame the concept of WFH, I blame how a company may be implementing it or the persons hired. I was a GM at large facility of a huge company before I committed to being self-employed full-time. It's not like I'm only speaking from myself or a small team(and I'm not talking about you, more talking about me and the large group under me).

You are simply not going to convince me that WFH is inferior based on your experience, because I have seen it time in and time out improve everything for those who participated. Those who would have issues, you don't allow to work from home, that simple. If your company only has the option of termination, then that isn't the problem with the concept, that is a non-flexible policy, too black and white. The bottom line is, if you are unable to revoke the privilege because someone is performing poorly, that person needs to be babysat. I'm not sugar coating it and you can choose to be offended all you like, but there is no way around it. That person who signed up for WFH is not responsible enough to WFH. Forcing the whole company to WFH is another thing all together, that is also not what I suggest. If you know you are not going to like it, don't do it, as I never suggested that a person who does not like WFH should be forced to do it. Flexible management > micromanagement.

I would expect it's also highly dependent on personality and job role. I believe you when you say it's been preferable for you and your teams, also speaking anecdotally, my entire team prefers to work in an office together rather than remotely.

 

[Crystallas]

I would expect it's also highly dependent on personality and job role. I believe you when you say it's been preferable for you and your teams, also speaking anecdotally, my entire team prefers to work in an office together rather than remotely.

Of course, and I never said it wasn't dependent on a number of factors.

Here is the real issue to those who are more conservative minded about WFH. What do you do when the traffic is too much, when office building rent is too high, when population grows and other businesses and teams have been ironing out WFH methods, have a huge leg up on your company and you yourself? Not saying it's like brick and mortar retail vs online, but, well, it kind of is. The giants fall because they don't adapt.

Not only that, from an environmentalism perspective, WFH has the massive potential to reduce a number of different kinds of emissions. Even if we all had solar electric cars that were produced and materials were resourced to a a minimal ecological impact, you still reduce a considerable amount of emissions by flexible WFH scheduling. Collectively that impact is worthwhile. Heck, everyone buys these overweight vehicles, so that's a lot of reduction of wear on the roads too. Yay, construction!

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

I'm not sugar coating it and you can choose to be offended all you like, but there is no way around it.

Why on earth would anyone be offended? lol

 

[Crystallas]

Why on earth would anyone be offended? lol

Just responding to this leap.

4. Clone works for me and you describe my workers as needing to be "babysat" and that is offensive to me.

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

It all kind of depends on what type of business you are conducting. Personally, if I work from home for an extended period, I tend to work far too much and lose a bit of balance in my life. If that means I need to be baby sat, so be it. I'll put one on the payroll.

 

[1COBearsfan]

I recently went from working graveyard shift and a 20 minute commute to normal human hours but now I have about a 35 minute commute. But those are both so nice compared to jobs in the past, and one of my wife’s previous commutes. I had a job on the total opposite side of the Denver area than where we lived that was close the an hour, so glad that’s over. My wife worked somewhere a little farther south than that and had well over an hour commute, sometimes close to an hour and a half. Now I only have to go downtown, not the opposite side of the country. My wife is lucky enough to have a 15 minute drive to work that includes dropping our son off at daycare

 

[ShiftyDevil]

Of course, and I never said it wasn't dependent on a number of factors.

Here is the real issue to those who are more conservative minded about WFH. What do you do when the traffic is too much, when office building rent is too high, when population grows and other businesses and teams have been ironing out WFH methods, have a huge leg up on your company and you yourself? Not saying it's like brick and mortar retail vs online, but, well, it kind of is. The giants fall because they don't adapt.

Not only that, from an environmentalism perspective, WFH has the massive potential to reduce a number of different kinds of emissions. Even if we all had solar electric cars that were produced and materials were resourced to a a minimal ecological impact, you still reduce a considerable amount of emissions by flexible WFH scheduling. Collectively that impact is worthwhile. Heck, everyone buys these overweight vehicles, so that's a lot of reduction of wear on the roads too. Yay, construction!

This is basically why I work from home. Company decided it didn't want to pay for the real estate anymore. Closed all the offices in the Seattle/Everett area and told everyone to work from home (or from client locations for those who could), or, commute to the next closest office, which was on the others die of Seattle/Bellevue AND Tacoma for everyone (At least an hour and a half commute one way).

 

[clonetrooper264]

Just responding to this leap.

Probably a couple things that contribute to that

1) the people Ares refers to that have this issue WFH that he describes don't work on our team
2) the babysitting comment appeared directed at our team

We've seen those in our company "abuse" the WFH policy and we've also seen those that likely do not benefit at all from it because they need that babysitting, so certainly those problems he describes exist. But definitely WFH when used correctly can be a huge benefit.

 

[LordKOTL]

I would expect it's also highly dependent on personality and job role. I believe you when you say it's been preferable for you and your teams, also speaking anecdotally, my entire team prefers to work in an office together rather than remotely.

This is huge when deciding it. If you're working in an environment or on a team that thrives off of constant collaboration...WFH might not work.

With the work I do though it's much more straightforward. I have a task and I get it done. Even though 99% of my work is done in our office, most of the projects I work on are based elsewhere in the US/World and I'm collaborating with people remotely in other offices...not necessarily *my* office. There are tools I have and use for online collaboration in real-time and the only real difference between home and work is that at home there's another firewall/VPN I gotta punch through which affects checkout times on our document control server. The only people at our company that don't like that model are the micromanagers who need status updates every 30 seconds...who are usually weeded out since they hinder as opposed to promote productivity.

I think if you can get a system in place that works and productivity is equal to, or better than in-office working, there's no logical reason to be against it. If you can't get it to work effectively, then don't.

 

[modo]

I work from a home office. My sales territory ranges from Montana to Colorado and over to Missouri. I generally am flying somewhere for a business meeting 2 to 3 times a month. Most of my meetings are done from my home office or around Denver in person.

I used to do the 8-5 everyday with a 20 minute drive into work.

 

[Ares]

Like I said, my experience is the opposite of your team. It's not just my experience, but that of a number of people I worked with, friends, etc. And none of them were stuck in rooms with only "chat/phone". So I'm thinking your experience is more due to poorly planned WFH methods, because I know far too many people IRL who would never give it up, and every single one of them is happier, more productive, and better rested. And most of them are caught up on TV shows LOL. That's more money in their pocket, more money in the companies pocket. So yes, if it fails, I don't blame the concept of WFH, I blame how a company may be implementing it or the persons hired. I was a GM at large facility of a huge company before I committed to being self-employed full-time. It's not like I'm only speaking from myself or a small team(and I'm not talking about you, more talking about me and the large group under me).

You are simply not going to convince me that WFH is inferior based on your experience, because I have seen it time in and time out improve everything for those who participated. Those who would have issues, you don't allow to work from home, that simple. If your company only has the option of termination, then that isn't the problem with the concept, that is a non-flexible policy, too black and white. The bottom line is, if you are unable to revoke the privilege because someone is performing poorly, that person needs to be babysat. I'm not sugar coating it and you can choose to be offended all you like, but there is no way around it. That person who signed up for WFH is not responsible enough to WFH. Forcing the whole company to WFH is another thing all together, that is also not what I suggest. If you know you are not going to like it, don't do it, as I never suggested that a person who does not like WFH should be forced to do it. Flexible management > micromanagement.

You are assuming your experiences supersede mine.

You are assuming you are correct.

You are trying to prove WFH is superior via a series of examples.

Proof by example(s) is not a valid form of proof.

WFH is not always superior, I can disprove that statement with examples.

And yes, you claiming my workers are inferior and in need of babysitting is offensive to me because it is incorrect, so on that point you and I will disagree.... me knowing my job and company and workers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you knowing nothing about us. Sorry.

 

[AussieBear]

worked at a job job today.. 10-15 minute commute time now.. doubt i stick it out there though.. well maybe ill stay on as a last resort, emergency type employee.. cause im still wanting dat healthcare gig instead, which would also bees 10-15 minutes away..

 

[Warrior Spirit]

You are assuming your experiences supersede mine.

You are assuming you are correct.

You are trying to prove WFH is superior via a series of examples.

Proof by example(s) is not a valid form of proof.

WFH is not always superior, I can disprove that statement with examples.

And yes, you claiming my workers are inferior and in need of babysitting is offensive to me because it is incorrect, so on that point you and I will disagree.... me knowing my job and company and workers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you knowing nothing about us. Sorry.

I agree with your assessment of it all and just think it's common sense based on human nature. People working at home are going to be in lazy mode, not going to feel as bound to their job and feel free to roam while constantly being distracted by other shit.

 

[brett05]

Well, part of WFH which I think is different than those that travel a lot are usually on some sort of IM which a manager would notice if someone was timing out repeatedly.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I agree with your assessment of it all and just think it's common sense based on human nature. People working at home are going to be in lazy mode, not going to feel as bound to their job and feel free to roam while constantly being distracted by other shit.

Well that's true of lazy people, of which there are plenty in this world. It need not turn out that way if the person is responsible.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Well that's true of lazy people, of which there are plenty in this world. It need not turn out that way if the person is responsible.

I think it's the type of thing that even leads to a not-so-lazy more dedicated type worker to become lazy and less dedicated.

 

[Ares]

I agree with your assessment of it all and just think it's common sense based on human nature. People working at home are going to be in lazy mode, not going to feel as bound to their job and feel free to roam while constantly being distracted by other shit.

Idk how I feel about Spartan agreeing with me.

But in essence, yes.... I've seen plenty of people who get lazy/inattentive with 3-5 days a week of WFH.

I can find you examples of people who WFH 3-5 days a week who generally remain productive as well.

But systems and oversight can only do so much to force people to work the same at home as they do in a professional setting.

There are many variables that impact how well WFH is going to work for a person/position.

In general I don't find it to be a good policy to push towards a majority of WFH.... not for my team and not for our company.

I could also get into corporate politics and why working from a downtown Chicago office where I sit with my boss' boss is a very good thing for me.

Something tells me he wouldn't take me quite so seriously if I just called him from my cell phone on my couch at home as opposed to speaking to him in person in our office.

 

[ShiftyDevil]

Well, part of WFH which I think is different than those that travel a lot are usually on some sort of IM which a manager would notice if someone was timing out repeatedly.

Doesn't always work. We use mattermost for our office IM, if I don't have the window active then it sets me to afk. So you can be actively writing code on your machine while IM says you're away.

 

[Crystallas]

Probably a couple things that contribute to that

1) the people Ares refers to that have this issue WFH that he describes don't work on our team
2) the babysitting comment appeared directed at our team

We've seen those in our company "abuse" the WFH policy and we've also seen those that likely do not benefit at all from it because they need that babysitting, so certainly those problems he describes exist. But definitely WFH when used correctly can be a huge benefit.

:shrug:

But I don't even know the people on your team, and you and Ares I do find to be grade A gents and would never say that about you. Now the pigeons that you have been secretly training for the last three years to take your bosses position, well, they need more babysitting.