Cubs Argument thread/D3A's explainin thread

[waldo7239117]

This is how I see it ... 90% of the free agents were overpaid.

 

[Uman85]

This is how I see it ... 90% of the free agents were overpaid.

That's usually the way it is, but it was definitely more prevalent this year with Pujols and Fielder both on the market.

 

[nwfisch]

Did CO leave for good or something?

You have the power to keep him away for good.

 

[daddies3angels]

Chicago Cubs | Cot's Baseball Contracts would ya look at that.. there goes D3A's cutting payroll argument, and the we're big market for long time argument. Looks like small to middle market till late 2000s

Thanks for my own thread :yeah:


Think about it. They were bad team with low payroll. Got good when they paid for FA.. Now they bad again while lowering payroll. So basica math tells me Cubs better at spending money to win over winning with low payroll

 

[bleacherbum54]

Thanks for my own thread :yeah:


Think about it. They were bad team with low payroll. Got good when they paid for FA.. Now they bad again while paying payroll. So basica math tells me Cubs better at spending money to win over winning with low payroll

we were awful last huge with a huge payroll


your argument is so fucking flawed

 

[daddies3angels]

we were awful last huge with a huge payroll


your argument is so fucking flawed

When Cubs went and spent money in 2006 offseason they won 2007-2009. Soon as Ricketts took over in 2010 and stopped spending money they have lost 90+

This year we all expect to lose 90 +

Just facts... thats all i throw out there.

 

[Rice Cube]

When Cubs went and spent money in 2006 offseason they won 2007-2009. Soon as Ricketts took over in 2010 and stopped spending money they have lost 90+

This year we all expect to lose 90 +

Just facts... thats all i throw out there.

I'm pretty sure you're a bit too narrow on these facts here. But I'm guessing we'll just have to repeat ourselves so whatever.

 

[daddies3angels]

we were awful last huge with a huge payroll


your argument is so fucking flawed

Also you have no room to talk. You dont even know baseball

Barney's was a single with a E or at least it should be

There is no error given when a runner takes 2nd on a throw. Learn baseball before you talk

 

[daddies3angels]

I'm pretty sure you're a bit too narrow on these facts here. But I'm guessing we'll just have to repeat ourselves so whatever.

narrow?

2007-2009 they had winning record with 2 playoff apperances. Were in thick of race in SEPT in 2009. When payroll started to get cut after 2009 season they started losing 90+ games. How is that narrow?

 

[Rice Cube]

narrow?

2007-2009 they had winning record with 2 playoff apperances. Were in thick of race in SEPT in 2009. When payroll started to get cut after 2009 season they started losing 90+ games. How is that narrow?

Because they pretty much had nobody to step in from the minors other than Starlin Castro after 2009. The farm system was starting to turn to crap at that point. Once you lose the window of opportunity with free agents, you are correct that they have one of two choices: 1) spend more money to fill holes with new free agents or 2) rework the farm. They did neither. Or they did it half-assedly. It wasn't just a matter of expenditure, it was an organization-wide failure to generate a pipeline of talent that would continue to funnel into the majors. If most of your best prospects are Brett Jackson, Rizzo in a trade, and whatever they drafted in 2011, then that speaks to why the team failed so badly in 2010 and 2011. The money bought and paid for Soriano (hurt and slow and sucky now), Ramirez (got hurt, slow, had a bad 2010) and Zambrano (fucked around with and started to suck). Now they are off the books and we've shown examples of why spending big this offseason wasn't the best idea in previous threads. Therefore your viewpoint that "we suck because we don't spend" is narrow. The money has been spent. It didn't work. Spending now will simply continue the cycle. So now try something else.

 

[Rice Cube]

You also haven't explained who you would buy and whether they'd even want to come to Chicago.

 

[daddies3angels]

Because they pretty much had nobody to step in from the minors other than Starlin Castro after 2009. The farm system was starting to turn to crap at that point. Once you lose the window of opportunity with free agents, you are correct that they have one of two choices: 1) spend more money to fill holes with new free agents or 2) rework the farm. They did neither. Or they did it half-assedly. It wasn't just a matter of expenditure, it was an organization-wide failure to generate a pipeline of talent that would continue to funnel into the majors. If most of your best prospects are Brett Jackson, Rizzo in a trade, and whatever they drafted in 2011, then that speaks to why the team failed so badly in 2010 and 2011. The money bought and paid for Soriano (hurt and slow and sucky now), Ramirez (got hurt, slow, had a bad 2010) and Zambrano (fucked around with and started to suck). Now they are off the books and we've shown examples of why spending big this offseason wasn't the best idea in previous threads. Therefore your viewpoint that "we suck because we don't spend" is narrow. The money has been spent. It didn't work. Spending now will simply continue the cycle. So now try something else.

il argue that spending money did work. It got them 3 winning seasons and also playoffs twice. Once in playoffs anything can happen. Last 2 yrs cutting payroll with 90 + losses. Im not saying if they spent they would have won. BUT it would have given them alot better oportunity.

 

[daddies3angels]

You also haven't explained who you would buy and whether they'd even want to come to Chicago.

i explained it in another thread couple of weeks ago what i would have done this offseason. dont feel like doing research again. Watching ball game

 

[Rice Cube]

il argue that spending money did work. It got them 3 winning seasons and also playoffs twice. Once in playoffs anything can happen. Last 2 yrs cutting payroll with 90 + losses. Im not saying if they spent they would have won. BUT it would have given them alot better oportunity.

Vick's link says the Cubs actually increased payroll for 2010 and then dropped payroll to around 2009 level for 2011. You conveniently forgot that a lot of the salary was backloaded and therefore the same players in 2007-2009 would get paid even more in the later years of their contract.

i explained it in another thread couple of weeks ago what i would have done this offseason. dont feel like doing research again. Watching ball game

So do it after the game. Copy-paste if you have to.

 

[daddies3angels]

Vick's link says the Cubs actually increased payroll for 2010 and then dropped payroll to around 2009 level for 2011. You conveniently forgot that a lot of the salary was backloaded and therefore the same players in 2007-2009 would get paid even more in the later years of their contract.



So do it after the game. Copy-paste if you have to.

i know contracts were back loaded. Still when players came off books they didnt spend that money elswhere on MLB roster. Instead bought McDonalds parking lot to build a store lol

 

[Rice Cube]

i know contracts were back loaded. Still when players came off books they didnt spend that money elswhere on MLB roster. Instead bought McDonalds parking lot to build a store lol

Possibly because the players that they had to pick and choose from were either
A- old; B- fat; C- injury-prone or D- all of the above.

I'm cool with spending out the wazoo when the team is just a piece or two away from contention. When you need to overhaul the entire roster, that's simply an inefficient way of doing business, and unfortunately for you, baseball IS a business. The Ricketts of course want to win, but they have to generate capital to win as well. The plan they are working on now seems to allow them to do so in the long run.

I'll wait for you to copy-paste your brilliant plan to turn the 2012 Cubs into contenders if we had a DeLorean time machine.

 

[nwfisch]

D3A, if the Cubs build the farm now, they can trade pieces from the farm for a stud 3B, 2B, SP etc.

 

[daddies3angels]

D3A, if the Cubs build the farm now, they can trade pieces from the farm for a stud 3B, 2B, SP etc.

I agree team needs to build farm. No argument from me on that. Im just saying its going to take 3-5 years to do so with current draft and IFA rules. So why not spend some money for next 1-3 yrs while farm being built up. Thats my argument. Again if team expects fans to pay 2nd highest ticket price in MLB i expect a competitive team on the field. I dont think any of us expect Cubs to be competitive this year.

 

[Rice Cube]

Look at the free agent lists for the next few years and let me know who we should spend and sign on.

 

[daddies3angels]

Look at the free agent lists for the next few years and let me know who we should spend and sign on.

i will do.. i know for sure there be some SP i spend money on.. if they can sign 2 big time FA SP and keep Garza Cubs SP be stacked for next 5-7 years.