Cubs claim Max Ramirez

[brett05]

In my own opinion he will make the roster as the back-up to Soto (YES, Hill will be gone) and the back-up 1B if Colvin has trouble.

I also think Hill will ask for too big of an offer thru arb and he will be waive. Like I said, I think the Cubs are starting to think that.

I could be wrong, but aren't arb numbers exchanged after it has been accepted by the player? if that is the case, the team cannot release a player.

 

[Northside_slugger]

CO and Waldo -

From Bruce Levine chat...

Question: With the waiver claim of Max Ramirez, are Koyie Hill's days as the backup catcher numbered?

Levine: Not necessarily. The Cubs really like Hill. But they also have Welington Castillo on a fast track as well so it's not just Max Ramirez coming along.

Link- Chat: Chat with Bruce Levine - SportsNation - ESPN Chicago

 

[waldo7239117]

It was more of hope and a dream more than anything. I really hate Hill. But if he asks for over 1M thru arb, I think the Cubs will part ways. More hope, lol.

 

[waldo7239117]

I could be wrong, but aren't arb numbers exchanged after it has been accepted by the player? if that is the case, the team cannot release a player.

I'm not exactly positive but I remember last year Fontenot was making 1M and if the Cubs release him the Cubs would say 75% to all. But if he does ask for too much and the Cubs are afriad he will win, I think they could waive him. Not exactly sure...

 

[Capt. Serious]

.....and we offered Koyie Hill arbitration because he will come for much much less than the average backup catcher....and he provides quality defense....He's actually a great defensive catcher...

Solid not great.

 

[Jntg4]

Hill's defense is way overrated IMHO.

 

[ZAN]

Solid not great.

Hill's defense is way overrated IMHO.

He's made 10 errors since 2004. Okay...errors aren't a great bar to measure a catcher with.

Passed balls....10 passed balls in ~1700 innings....That's 1 every 170 innings....
Yadier Molina has 42 in 6500 innings. That's 1 every 150 innings.

Koyie Hills' career caught stealing is at the usual MLB average....but over the past two years he's thrown out an EXCELLENT 28 of 67...That's 41% of baserunners. The best in the business is Yadi @ 47%....

I'd say for a backup catcher....Hill is PHENOMINAL, defensively....not "solid" or "overrated"....If anything, people underrate Koyie Hill defensively....Maybe because he brings little to the table from the plate.

You all are either crazy or don't watch baseball closely enough....it's clear that Koyie Hill is easily a top 5 defensive catcher in the league....

 

[Captain Obvious]

He's made 10 errors since 2004. Okay...errors aren't a great bar to measure a catcher with.

Passed balls....10 passed balls in ~1700 innings....That's 1 every 170 innings....
Yadier Molina has 42 in 6500 innings. That's 1 every 150 innings.

Koyie Hills' career caught stealing is at the usual MLB average....but over the past two years he's thrown out an EXCELLENT 28 of 67...That's 41% of baserunners. The best in the business is Yadi @ 47%....

I'd say for a backup catcher....Hill is PHENOMINAL, defensively....not "solid" or "overrated"....If anything, people underrate Koyie Hill defensively....Maybe because he brings little to the table from the plate.

You all are either crazy or don't watch baseball closely enough....it's clear that Koyie Hill is easily a top 5 defensive catcher in the league....

What does a catcher do most? Frames pitches. Koyie Hill sucks at framing pitches.

 

[Jntg4]

He's made 10 errors since 2004. Okay...errors aren't a great bar to measure a catcher with.

Passed balls....10 passed balls in ~1700 innings....That's 1 every 170 innings....
Yadier Molina has 42 in 6500 innings. That's 1 every 150 innings.

Koyie Hills' career caught stealing is at the usual MLB average....but over the past two years he's thrown out an EXCELLENT 28 of 67...That's 41% of baserunners. The best in the business is Yadi @ 47%....

I'd say for a backup catcher....Hill is PHENOMINAL, defensively....not "solid" or "overrated"....If anything, people underrate Koyie Hill defensively....Maybe because he brings little to the table from the plate.

You all are either crazy or don't watch baseball closely enough....it's clear that Koyie Hill is easily a top 5 defensive catcher in the league....

You can't judge on errors for a backup catcher. AND he only threw at 18% of base-steelers last year.

 

[ZAN]

You can't judge on errors for a backup catcher. AND he only threw at 18% of base-steelers last year.

Did I not preface my rebuttal with something along the lines of "Okay...errors aren't a good measuring bar for backstop defensive ability."?

Really though....we are going to measure our backup catcher using an intangible sabermetric BS article written by a random Cubs blogger analyzing how well Koyie Hill frames pitches?

Can we get a sabermetric BS statistic on how well Koyie Hill calls games compared to other backstops in the league, too?

We are arguing about a backup catcher...which ours comes CHEAPER than most backup backstops....and provides MUCH MUCH more defensive ability than the average backup C in the league....

Yet he can't frame pitches....okay....Maybe that's why I stopped posting here over a year ago....Arguments like that, backed up by an article from a random Cubs blogger outlining how well Koyie Hill frames pitches....

You know how easy it is to tinker how Koyie frames pitches. It's not rocket science. He remains a very good wall behind the plate and has shown to be capable of throwing out just as many runners as the next guy....Sure he had a bad year last year throwing out runners...and it brought his career % down to the MLB average....

But let's focus on how he frames a slider over actual statistics like passed balls and caught stealing....

 

[Jntg4]

Did I not preface my rebuttal with something along the lines of "Okay...errors aren't a good measuring bar for backstop defensive ability."?

Really though....we are going to measure our backup catcher using an intangible sabermetric BS article written by a random Cubs blogger analyzing how well Koyie Hill frames pitches?

Can we get a sabermetric BS statistic on how well Koyie Hill calls games compared to other backstops in the league, too?

We are arguing about a backup catcher...which ours comes CHEAPER than most backup backstops....and provides MUCH MUCH more defensive ability than the average backup C in the league....

Yet he can't frame pitches....okay....Maybe that's why I stopped posting here over a year ago....Arguments like that, backed up by an article from a random Cubs blogger outlining how well Koyie Hill frames pitches....

You know how easy it is to tinker how Koyie frames pitches. It's not rocket science. He remains a very good wall behind the plate and has shown to be capable of throwing out just as many runners as the next guy....Sure he had a bad year last year throwing out runners...and it brought his career % down to the MLB average....

But let's focus on how he frames a slider over actual statistics like passed balls and caught stealing....

Which comes cheaper? Hmmm... Welington Castillo.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Did I not preface my rebuttal with something along the lines of "Okay...errors aren't a good measuring bar for backstop defensive ability."?

Really though....we are going to measure our backup catcher using an intangible sabermetric BS article written by a random Cubs blogger analyzing how well Koyie Hill frames pitches?

Can we get a sabermetric BS statistic on how well Koyie Hill calls games compared to other backstops in the league, too?

We are arguing about a backup catcher...which ours comes CHEAPER than most backup backstops....and provides MUCH MUCH more defensive ability than the average backup C in the league....

Yet he can't frame pitches....okay....Maybe that's why I stopped posting here over a year ago....Arguments like that, backed up by an article from a random Cubs blogger outlining how well Koyie Hill frames pitches....

You know how easy it is to tinker how Koyie frames pitches. It's not rocket science. He remains a very good wall behind the plate and has shown to be capable of throwing out just as many runners as the next guy....Sure he had a bad year last year throwing out runners...and it brought his career % down to the MLB average....

But let's focus on how he frames a slider over actual statistics like passed balls and caught stealing....

So now all sabermetrics are BS? Why does it matter who it was written by? It doesn't change the numbers. At all.

That's fine that he "remains a good wall and has shown to be capable of throwing out just as many runners as the next guy," but how many times a season, as a BACKUP, is he going to get to throw out 2 out of every 5 runners? He is going to have the opportunity to frame a pitch, every pitch he is in the game for. The number of pitches > the number of base runners.

How could you have stopped posting here over a year ago, when you joined in April 2010?

 

[DewsSox79]

So now all sabermetrics are BS? Why does it matter who it was written by? It doesn't change the numbers. At all.

That's fine that he "remains a good wall and has shown to be capable of throwing out just as many runners as the next guy," but how many times a season, as a BACKUP, is he going to get to throw out 2 out of every 5 runners? He is going to have the opportunity to frame a pitch, every pitch he is in the game for. The number of pitches > the number of base runners.

How could you have stopped posting here over a year ago, when you joined in April 2010?

do you ever stop? I want to keep members active, not lose them. We discussed this already last week.

 

[ZAN]

So now all sabermetrics are BS? Why does it matter who it was written by? It doesn't change the numbers. At all.

That's fine that he "remains a good wall and has shown to be capable of throwing out just as many runners as the next guy," but how many times a season, as a BACKUP, is he going to get to throw out 2 out of every 5 runners? He is going to have the opportunity to frame a pitch, every pitch he is in the game for. The number of pitches > the number of base runners.

How could you have stopped posting here over a year ago, when you joined in April 2010?

Ya caught me. But guys, much like you, were the reason for me leaving.

There is a BS sabermetric stat for everything.

Since you like to dig up goofy sabermetric stats like pitch framing percentages....find me a sabermetric that gives me a total for how many games Koyie Hill LOST for the Chicago Cubs by not framing pitches well...

The guy helped Carlos Marmol earn the highest K/9IP rating of ALL-TIME by a relief pitcher....many of Carlos Marmol's sliders were well off the dish and were framed JUUUUST fine by Koyie Hill....I mean, he framed enough to get Marmol that record, I'd say...seeing as damn near half the hitters, if not more, struck out looking....

And if you have a wild (at times) closer like Marmol whos slider has probably more movement off the plate towards the LHH box than any other pitcher in the league...and Koyie Hill is sooooo bad at framing pitches...why weren't we leaving Geo in to "frame" for us in the 9th? Maybe because Koyie:

1. Isn't really THAT bad at framing pitches (as you claim)
2. Calls a better game? (That's been PROVEN)

 

[ZAN]

Which comes cheaper? Hmmm... Welington Castillo.

In the long run...no.

Castillo will (most likely) be a callup on June 1st, so he can't earn a year of service for HIS arbitration (when it comes time)...Especially since we think Castillo could potentially start for us in 2012....if Geo doesn't get back to form...

 

[Jntg4]

In the long run...no.

Castillo will (most likely) be a callup on June 1st, so he can't earn a year of service for HIS arbitration (when it comes time)...Especially since we think Castillo could potentially start for us in 2012....if Geo doesn't get back to form...

Geo doesn't get back to form??? What??? You see him at all last year?

 

[Jntg4]

Ya caught me. But guys, much like you, were the reason for me leaving.

There is a BS sabermetric stat for everything.

Since you like to dig up goofy sabermetric stats like pitch framing percentages....find me a sabermetric that gives me a total for how many games Koyie Hill LOST for the Chicago Cubs by not framing pitches well...

The guy helped Carlos Marmol earn the highest K/9IP rating of ALL-TIME by a relief pitcher....many of Carlos Marmol's sliders were well off the dish and were framed JUUUUST fine by Koyie Hill....I mean, he framed enough to get Marmol that record, I'd say...seeing as damn near half the hitters, if not more, struck out looking....

And if you have a wild (at times) closer like Marmol whos slider has probably more movement off the plate towards the LHH box than any other pitcher in the league...and Koyie Hill is sooooo bad at framing pitches...why weren't we leaving Geo in to "frame" for us in the 9th? Maybe because Koyie:

1. Isn't really THAT bad at framing pitches (as you claim)
2. Calls a better game? (That's been PROVEN)

Except it was usually Soto, not Hill.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Ya caught me. But guys, much like you, were the reason for me leaving.

There is a BS sabermetric stat for everything.

Since you like to dig up goofy sabermetric stats like pitch framing percentages....find me a sabermetric that gives me a total for how many games Koyie Hill LOST for the Chicago Cubs by not framing pitches well...

The guy helped Carlos Marmol earn the highest K/9IP rating of ALL-TIME by a relief pitcher....many of Carlos Marmol's sliders were well off the dish and were framed JUUUUST fine by Koyie Hill....I mean, he framed enough to get Marmol that record, I'd say...seeing as damn near half the hitters, if not more, struck out looking....

And if you have a wild (at times) closer like Marmol whos slider has probably more movement off the plate towards the LHH box than any other pitcher in the league...and Koyie Hill is sooooo bad at framing pitches...why weren't we leaving Geo in to "frame" for us in the 9th? Maybe because Koyie:

1. Isn't really THAT bad at framing pitches (as you claim)
2. Calls a better game? (That's been PROVEN)

How do you know the stat is BS if you don't do any research into it? Sounds to me that you are in denial. Your Carlos Marmol example is stupid. Geo caught for him more. Therefore Geo helped him get there more.

I would love for you to prove that he calls a better game. Should be no problem since it has been proven already.

By the way, just do a little reading and you can see that Koyie Hill cost the team 17 runs, where as Geo saved us 5 runs. That's about 2 wins difference there.

In the long run...no.

Castillo will (most likely) be a callup on June 1st, so he can't earn a year of service for HIS arbitration (when it comes time)...Especially since we think Castillo could potentially start for us in 2012....if Geo doesn't get back to form...

Catillo's arby clock has already started....

Where do you see anywhere the Castillo could start for us in 2012? Why the hell would we give up a top 5 offensive catcher?

 

[Jntg4]

How do you know the stat is BS if you don't do any research into it? Sounds to me that you are in denial. Your Carlos Marmol example is stupid. Geo caught for him more. Therefore Geo helped him get there more.

I would love for you to prove that he calls a better game. Should be no problem since it has been proven already.

By the way, just do a little reading and you can see that Koyie Hill cost the team 17 runs, where as Geo saved us 5 runs. That's about 2 wins difference there.



Catillo's arby clock has already started....

Where do you see anywhere the Castillo could start for us in 2012? Why the hell would we give up a top 5 offensive catcher?

And what would Soto be bouncing back from?

 

[ZAN]

Except it was usually Soto, not Hill.

Oh it was?! Check again, please....