Cubs claim Max Ramirez

[ZAN]

Except it was usually Soto, not Hill.

Oh it was?! Check again, please....

And no, Castillo's arbitration has not started....Check again, please...

Also, JMO...but I've never advocated overspending for offense at a position that typically doesn't give offense. Soto used to be a scary power presence at the dish...Now he's turned into a just get on base hitter...That's fine...But I'm not wasting money on him because he's top 5 in his position (a position where "great" is defined by first and foremost great defense and anything extra at the plate is gravy). The money, IMO is better spent elsewhere when the time comes...

 

[Jntg4]

Oh it was?! Check again, please....

Yes, it was.

 

[Jntg4]

Oh it was?! Check again, please....

And no, Castillo's arbitration has not started....Check again, please...

Also, JMO...but I've never advocated overspending for offense at a position that typically doesn't give offense. Soto used to be a scary power presence at the dish...Now he's turned into a just get on base hitter...That's fine...But I'm not wasting money on him because he's top 5 in his position (a position where "great" is defined by first and foremost great defense and anything extra at the plate is gravy). The money, IMO is better spent elsewhere when the time comes...

Nobody said Castillo's arb had started.

 

[Jntg4]

Oh it was?! Check again, please....

And no, Castillo's arbitration has not started....Check again, please...

Also, JMO...but I've never advocated overspending for offense at a position that typically doesn't give offense. Soto used to be a scary power presence at the dish...Now he's turned into a just get on base hitter...That's fine...But I'm not wasting money on him because he's top 5 in his position (a position where "great" is defined by first and foremost great defense and anything extra at the plate is gravy). The money, IMO is better spent elsewhere when the time comes...

Soto's become just a base hit hitter? What are you talking about?

 

[ZAN]

Come on, man. Don't be naive. You really think we expected Soto to go from a player capable of 30 HR and AT LEAST 80 RBI to a .280/17/50?

And, really...Koyie Hill DID catch Marmol more than Soto....CHECK.

 

[Jntg4]

Come on, man. Don't be naive. You really think we expected Soto to go from a player capable of 30 HR and AT LEAST 80 RBI to a .280/17/50?

And, really...Koyie Hill DID catch Marmol more than Soto....CHECK.

Ya, I did check. Soto DID.

Soto never hit 30 homers.

Yes, he could have had 80 RBI's, but Koyie Hill got 60 starts and then Soto got injured, leaving Castillo with more playing time too.

 

[Jntg4]

However, Koyie Hill was the catcher for 3 of Marmol's 5 blown saves.

 

[ZAN]

Koyie hill caught carlos marmol 1.2 more innings than soto. And this was just about all in a row. Soto started the year catching him, but Koyie Hill's reputation to "call a better game" (Bob Brenley) earned him the role as Marmol's personal catcher. Every game (with a lead) that we had going into the 9th, we would take out Soto and the setup for Marmol/Hill...unless Hill started the game, in which he'd just stay...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCJNMKDzdWg]YouTube - Philadelphia Eagles DeSean Jackson - ESPN Sunday NFL Countdown Commercial: The Catch[/ame]

Carlos Marmol 2010 Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com


My argument is this: We say Koyie Hill is overpaid. He is not...come on, we didn't shell out THAT much. We say Koyie Hill is an average defensive catcher when he is statistically in the top 5 (percentage-wise) in every important stat category (except for caught stealing last year, but he's still 41% over two years: PHENOMINAL). We say he can't frame a pitch via some BS sabermetric stat. Yet, he was Marmol's personal (with a lead) catcher for the last 3/4 of the year, and Marmol set a record for K/9....most of which were the caught looking variety, mostly throwing a BREAKING PITCH (which apparently Koyie Hill struggles framing pitches...).

Addendum to argument: Marmol threw 2 more Ks with Hill in only an inning and 2 thirds more, and had a lower ERA despite having 3 of his 5 blown saves with Hill. Only reason Soto didn't get them is because Hill was annointed Marmol's personal catcher...and five blown saves is fine....Why are we acting like Hill catching during 3 of them is a reason to boot him?

 

[Jntg4]

Koyie hill caught carlos marmol 1.2 more innings than soto. And this was just about all in a row. Soto started the year catching him, but Koyie Hill's reputation to "call a better game" (Bob Brenley) earned him the role as Marmol's personal catcher. Every game (with a lead) that we had going into the 9th, we would take out Soto and the setup for Marmol/Hill...unless Hill started the game, in which he'd just stay...

YouTube - Philadelphia Eagles DeSean Jackson - ESPN Sunday NFL Countdown Commercial: The Catch

Carlos Marmol 2010 Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com


My argument is this: We say Koyie Hill is overpaid. He is not...come on, we didn't shell out THAT much. We say Koyie Hill is an average defensive catcher when he is statistically in the top 5 (percentage-wise) in every important stat category (except for caught stealing last year, but he's still 41% over two years: PHENOMINAL). We say he can't frame a pitch via some BS sabermetric stat. Yet, he was Marmol's personal (with a lead) catcher for the last 3/4 of the year, and Marmol set a record for K/9....most of which were the caught looking variety, mostly throwing a BREAKING PITCH (which apparently Koyie Hill struggles framing pitches...).

Addendum to argument: Marmol threw 2 more Ks with Hill in only an inning and 2 thirds more, and had a lower ERA despite having 3 of his 5 blown saves with Hill. Only reason Soto didn't get them is because Hill was annointed Marmol's personal catcher...and five blown saves is fine....Why are we acting like Hill catching during 3 of them is a reason to boot him?

How does catching Marmol 1.2 innings more than Soto make Hill good.

Nobody said he was overpaid.

He just sucks too bad to keep Castillo in the minors for him.

 

[Jntg4]

Koyie hill caught carlos marmol 1.2 more innings than soto. And this was just about all in a row. Soto started the year catching him, but Koyie Hill's reputation to "call a better game" (Bob Brenley) earned him the role as Marmol's personal catcher. Every game (with a lead) that we had going into the 9th, we would take out Soto and the setup for Marmol/Hill...unless Hill started the game, in which he'd just stay...

YouTube - Philadelphia Eagles DeSean Jackson - ESPN Sunday NFL Countdown Commercial: The Catch

Carlos Marmol 2010 Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com


My argument is this: We say Koyie Hill is overpaid. He is not...come on, we didn't shell out THAT much. We say Koyie Hill is an average defensive catcher when he is statistically in the top 5 (percentage-wise) in every important stat category (except for caught stealing last year, but he's still 41% over two years: PHENOMINAL). We say he can't frame a pitch via some BS sabermetric stat. Yet, he was Marmol's personal (with a lead) catcher for the last 3/4 of the year, and Marmol set a record for K/9....most of which were the caught looking variety, mostly throwing a BREAKING PITCH (which apparently Koyie Hill struggles framing pitches...).

Addendum to argument: Marmol threw 2 more Ks with Hill in only an inning and 2 thirds more, and had a lower ERA despite having 3 of his 5 blown saves with Hill. Only reason Soto didn't get them is because Hill was annointed Marmol's personal catcher...and five blown saves is fine....Why are we acting like Hill catching during 3 of them is a reason to boot him?

How is he Marmol's personal catcher if he only caught 1.2 more innings than Soto, who was on the DL more than Hill.

Soto was on the DL when you say Hill was Marmol's "personal catcher".

 

[Jntg4]

Koyie hill caught carlos marmol 1.2 more innings than soto. And this was just about all in a row. Soto started the year catching him, but Koyie Hill's reputation to "call a better game" (Bob Brenley) earned him the role as Marmol's personal catcher. Every game (with a lead) that we had going into the 9th, we would take out Soto and the setup for Marmol/Hill...unless Hill started the game, in which he'd just stay...

YouTube - Philadelphia Eagles DeSean Jackson - ESPN Sunday NFL Countdown Commercial: The Catch

Carlos Marmol 2010 Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com


My argument is this: We say Koyie Hill is overpaid. He is not...come on, we didn't shell out THAT much. We say Koyie Hill is an average defensive catcher when he is statistically in the top 5 (percentage-wise) in every important stat category (except for caught stealing last year, but he's still 41% over two years: PHENOMINAL). We say he can't frame a pitch via some BS sabermetric stat. Yet, he was Marmol's personal (with a lead) catcher for the last 3/4 of the year, and Marmol set a record for K/9....most of which were the caught looking variety, mostly throwing a BREAKING PITCH (which apparently Koyie Hill struggles framing pitches...).

Addendum to argument: Marmol threw 2 more Ks with Hill in only an inning and 2 thirds more, and had a lower ERA despite having 3 of his 5 blown saves with Hill. Only reason Soto didn't get them is because Hill was annointed Marmol's personal catcher...and five blown saves is fine....Why are we acting like Hill catching during 3 of them is a reason to boot him?

Except he was a backup catcher. So even if his defensive stats say he was a Top 5, it still isn't an equal comparison.

 

[ZAN]

That's why I said "percentage-wise", Jntg4. Percentages do not lie, man. For backup catchers, there are (probably) none better defensively. He'd honestly be fine in an everyday American League lineup, due to the DH. He is a DAMN GOOD defensive catcher, which makes him perfect for the NL...But everyone acts like he's not worth the little money he's getting paid...

Sure, he's not super serviceable in the NL. But it doesn't make him any worse at what catchers are paid to do....catch....

Plus, do you really want Castillo wasting time on Quade's bench AND his arbitration clock to start?

 

[Jntg4]

That's why I said "percentage-wise", Jntg4. Percentages do not lie, man. For backup catchers, there are (probably) none better defensively. He'd honestly be fine in an everyday American League lineup, due to the DH. He is a DAMN GOOD defensive catcher, which makes him perfect for the NL...But everyone acts like he's not worth the little money he's getting paid...

Sure, he's not super serviceable in the NL. But it doesn't make him any worse at what catchers are paid to do....catch....

Plus, do you really want Castillo wasting time on Quade's bench AND his arbitration clock to start?

His arb clock has already started, as CO explained.

And BTW, you said 2 more K's in only 1.2 more innings. You know that that means that he had a higher K/9 with Soto than with Hill, right?

 

[ZAN]

Oh you finally learned to read a stat line? He also had a lower ERA by almost half a run with Hill.

Yes, Hill took the job due to Soto's DL stint. But when Lou saw how Marmol closed games (quickly and consisely) with Hill, it was his job to keep. Hence why I said that Hill was Marmol's personal catcher for 3/4 of the year....because HE WAS.


AND FOR THE LAST DAMN TIME....CASTILLO'S ARBITRATION CLOCK HAS NOT STARTED. TO ACCRUE A YEAR, YOU MUST BE ON THE CLUB FOR 86 DAYS DURING YOUR FIRST SEASON TO START THE CLOCK. HE PLAYED IN 7 (SEVEN!!!!!!) GAMES. HIS DEBUT WAS ON AUGUST 11TH OF LAST YEAR. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO QUALIFYING FOR A SUPER 2 ARBY. SO STOP IT WITH THE MISINFORMATION.

That's why I left this damn place. No one takes the time to look up their statistics before they give their opinion....

 

[Jntg4]

Oh you finally learned to read a stat line? He also had a lower ERA by almost half a run with Hill.

Yes, Hill took the job due to Soto's DL stint. But when Lou saw how Marmol closed games (quickly and consisely) with Hill, it was his job to keep. Hence why I said that Hill was Marmol's personal catcher for 3/4 of the year....because HE WAS.


AND FOR THE LAST DAMN TIME....CASTILLO'S ARBITRATION CLOCK HAS NOT STARTED. TO ACCRUE A YEAR, YOU MUST BE ON THE CLUB FOR 86 DAYS DURING YOUR FIRST SEASON TO START THE CLOCK. HE PLAYED IN 7 (SEVEN!!!!!!) GAMES. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO QUALIFYING FOR A SUPER 2 ARBY. SO STOP IT WITH THE MISINFORMATION.

That's why I left this damn place. No one takes the time to look up their statistics before they give their opinion....

No, he wasn't his personal catcher. Besides the time Soto was on the DL, Soto played with Marmol more than Hill. So, unless Marmol pitched more in the 1st quarter of the year than in the remaining 3/4 of the year combined, Hill was not his "personal catcher".

 

[ZAN]

For god's sakes, do you read?

For like the third (or fourth, I've lost track) time now. In SAVE situations, Hill was Marmol's personal catcher. There were many times Lou brought in Marmol in the 8th to pitch an inning in a tie game. Due to needing a run to win, Soto stayed in the game to catch Marmol. If the Cubs scored a lead taking run in the bottom, Hill came into the game.

 

[Jntg4]

For god's sakes, do you read?

For like the third (or fourth, I've lost track) time now. In SAVE situations, Hill was Marmol's personal catcher. There were many times Lou brought in Marmol in the 8th to pitch an inning in a tie game. Due to needing a run to win, Soto stayed in the game to catch Marmol. If the Cubs scored a lead taking run in the bottom, Hill came into the game.

Except you never said in save situations before, you just said he was his personal catcher.

Unless, of course, the post you modified a couple minutes ago was modified to make it say save situations, I haven't bothered checking.

He still doesn't qualify as his personal catcher. He did catch Marmol more than Geo did, but still not consistently enough to be considered a personal catcher.

 

[ZAN]

Again, you need to use your head. Check the splits. Marmol had 8 of his IP in the 8th inning. Logic says, he comes in in a tie game to preserve it or to pitch 1 or 2 outs in a crunch situation. Those innings belong(ed) to Soto.

When Soto got hurt, Hill got to catch Marmol much much more often, and Lou saw how they worked together. Finishing games in 9-13 pitches, even....So even when Soto came back, Hill STILL got the 9th inning.

That's all I've been saying. Hill was Marmol's personal catcher in 9th inning save situations beause he CALLS A GOOD GAME....and intangible needed for a good catcher....

You turned this into "Who caught Marmol more." And (without looking) exclaimed that Soto did...and when proven wrong, made the excuse "Well Soto was put on the DL." Like that's my fault. Does Soto's DL stint make my point incorrect? No. Not at all.

So please. Stop talking without looking at statistical evidence first. It's baseball. Mindless talk is ridiculous. It's a game of statistics...USE THEM to refute and rebute your arguments/opponent's arguments rather than giving rhetorical spew.

I'm off work, and outta here. Have a nice day. And GO CUBS.

 

[Jntg4]

Again, you need to use your head. Check the splits. Marmol had 8 of his IP in the 8th inning. Logic says, he comes in in a tie game to preserve it or to pitch 1 or 2 outs in a crunch situation. Those innings belong(ed) to Soto.

When Soto got hurt, Hill got to catch Marmol much much more often, and Lou saw how they worked together. Finishing games in 9-13 pitches, even....So even when Soto came back, Hill STILL got the 9th inning.

That's all I've been saying. Hill was Marmol's personal catcher in 9th inning save situations beause he CALLS A GOOD GAME....and intangible needed for a good catcher....

You turned this into "Who caught Marmol more." And (without looking) exclaimed that Soto did...and when proven wrong, made the excuse "Well Soto was put on the DL." Like that's my fault. Does Soto's DL stint make my point incorrect? No. Not at all.

So please. Stop talking without looking at statistical evidence first. It's baseball. Mindless talk is ridiculous. It's a game of statistics...USE THEM to refute and rebute your arguments/opponent's arguments rather than giving rhetorical spew.

I'm off work, and outta here. Have a nice day. And GO CUBS.

Soto didn't come back, if we are talking about the same DL stint. And you said personal catcher, not personal save situation catcher. Not mindless at all.

And Soto did catch Marmol more in days active. Divide games caught by games on the active roster, and Soto has the higher percentage. Because "percentages don't lie".

 

[Jntg4]

Soto was on the DL in August and in September-October. That's not 3/4 of the season. You say he became his personal catcher when Soto was on the DL, but you also say 3/4 of the season, he was the personal catcher.

So how is that so?