Cubs Farm System And Prospects Discussion Thread

[JP Hochbaum]

I wouldn't concern myself with that part. Jed has been making his starters into 5 inning pitchers then making a deep bull pen. What matters is the 5 innings not getting into late innings.

Jed is not building 5 inning starters. That is just what happens when you trade everyone and you don't have a farm system ready to handle it.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

If he comes up it means that Jed did not invest into the rotation.

Jed has some choices to make. He has two things going for him right now. A small payroll with plenty of spending room. And a few plus pitching prospects.

Common sense says 1-3 year deals. Let contract drop when these pitchers arrive.

Kilian is at AA now. Over all at AA 2.75 ERA in 78.2 IP. This is his first full season as 2019 was 7 games and 2020 was lost. I see him in Iowa for a full year. His career has been pretty scattered to date and I can see a stable year being the right call.

Brailyn Marquez still has not pitches a inning this year. I would push him to closing when he returns. I wouldn't risk his arm going forward and a 100 MPH lefty closer has huge value to the team. They can get him up in 2023 this way with less risk.

Jordan Wicks should be on the fast track. He has clean mechanics and features a change up as his main secondary pitch. That has little wear on the arm and I can see AA-AAA next year and inline for a rotation spot in 2023.

DJ Herz has the making of an ace. 24 games under his belt. 20 YO. holding hitters to a .152 BA in 71 IP. I would want him in A+ moved to AA next year. Get him to 100 IP next year. 2023 I would want him in Iowa and the first call up.

So looking at it logically 2022 the Cubs have Davis dropping off.

Hendricks paid until 2023 with 2024 an option year.
Alzolay has plenty of control going on.
Mills Arb1 in 2023
Steel
Thompson Bubble guy.

They could score a arm. Push Thompson into the pen. Kilian I would add to pen depth in 2023. Bolster the mid inning arms as the goal is 5 innings and a boost to get into the 8th. When Wick gets up push Mills into the booster group. So they would have 3 guys providing 2 innings of work to give the rotation a solid 7 innings every day.

So building this way you would have 2 guys that can get 6-7 every game.
3 guys that need a 2 inning bump.

Then dedicate resource to the 8-9th inning. High velocity arms that shut down teams.

Not to mention having 3 ex-starter is ideal. If a starter craps out early you have some guys that can deal with it better.

Kilian making the rotation next year doesn't mean anything about what they did in FA. Alzolay should be in the pen. Mills is a placeholder. Thompson is a bullpen arm. We'll see what Steele is. Lots of room for Kilian

 

[CSF77]

Kilian making the rotation next year doesn't mean anything about what they did in FA. Alzolay should be in the pen. Mills is a placeholder. Thompson is a bullpen arm. We'll see what Steele is. Lots of room for Kilian

Kilian needs to force a rotation spot. Nothing is given. But that said he seems better for starting due to being a strike thrower. I am not arguing that part.

Of the players listed the one guy that fits the bill as a lock is Wicks. With him it is just time. He has polish and needs to build up innings.

The highest top end is Herz. I think after seeing his video that he will give fits to hitters coming in at that angle.

Marquez IMO will be a closer. His shoulder injury should be a red flag. Not to mention he has lost years. They are not going to waste a year trying to build him up. It makes sense to use him as a closer and get him on track again. If starting is part of his future it is fine. That can still happen. What is important is getting him on the mound and up to the MLB roster.

So all things said and done Jed is not going to lock out Wicks. Steel seems like a solid starter. Hendricks is Hendricks. He is never going to be an ace. This year really showed that fact. I believe that he was a oddity before with a rotation of 90+ MPH that helped him as being the oddball. With that velocity being the norm he lost that advantage

So long story short. I agree with you on Kilian. They need more velocity in the rotation. Steel hovers mid 90. Kilian mid 90. Wicks same.

The question would be who would be the ideal target.

2022 it would be F/A, Hendricks then Steel, Kilian replacing Mills and Azolay. I don't see any starter knocking him off yet.

2023 is Kyles last year. I can see Herz replacing him.

So we would have F/A, Hendricks, Steel, Azolay, Kilian, Wick

Following year Herz added Kyle removed.

So over all they really don't need a F/A long term. Time and luck fixes this internal. Adding a F/A bumps a arm to the pen and might delay Kilian.

I'm kinda gearing towards a flip. It fits Jed's profile. Add depth and flip it. Build up the lower farm more and replace with Kilian.

Honestly I see 2022 as a non contending year. It would cost too much for one. Then block the chain of progression. It is counterproductive to the state of the team

Let's face it. The fans love these fools regardless. Frank the Tank. Cubs fans don't give a damn. Win all good.

So I can see a rental. I don't know who at all. The strength pending is lefty. Long term you want a right hander. But they have Kilian and Azolay. Not to mention there is always a RH pitcher on the market. That will always be a constant.

If I had to sit down and look at this hard. And ask the question who makes sense? Well it would have to be better than Thompson. He is the #5. I would rate Steel as the #2 right now. He has proven stable. Azolay is on a innings limit this year. I see him as the #3. #4 is Mills. Split up him and Kyle. But he can toss a gem 3-5 times a year. I see him holding for Wicks. The last guy. It comes down to Thompson. As of right now? No he is a middle relief.

I've heard her Pax on a flip deal and I am pretty good with it.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Kilian needs to force a rotation spot. Nothing is given. But that said he seems better for starting due to being a strike thrower. I am not arguing that part.

Of the players listed the one guy that fits the bill as a lock is Wicks. With him it is just time. He has polish and needs to build up innings.

The highest top end is Herz. I think after seeing his video that he will give fits to hitters coming in at that angle.

Marquez IMO will be a closer. His shoulder injury should be a red flag. Not to mention he has lost years. They are not going to waste a year trying to build him up. It makes sense to use him as a closer and get him on track again. If starting is part of his future it is fine. That can still happen. What is important is getting him on the mound and up to the MLB roster.

So all things said and done Jed is not going to lock out Wicks. Steel seems like a solid starter. Hendricks is Hendricks. He is never going to be an ace. This year really showed that fact. I believe that he was a oddity before with a rotation of 90+ MPH that helped him as being the oddball. With that velocity being the norm he lost that advantage

So long story short. I agree with you on Kilian. They need more velocity in the rotation. Steel hovers mid 90. Kilian mid 90. Wicks same.

The question would be who would be the ideal target.

2022 it would be F/A, Hendricks then Steel, Kilian replacing Mills and Azolay. I don't see any starter knocking him off yet.

2023 is Kyles last year. I can see Herz replacing him.

So we would have F/A, Hendricks, Steel, Azolay, Kilian, Wick

Following year Herz added Kyle removed.

So over all they really don't need a F/A long term. Time and luck fixes this internal. Adding a F/A bumps a arm to the pen and might delay Kilian.

I'm kinda gearing towards a flip. It fits Jed's profile. Add depth and flip it. Build up the lower farm more and replace with Kilian.

Honestly I see 2022 as a non contending year. It would cost too much for one. Then block the chain of progression. It is counterproductive to the state of the team

Let's face it. The fans love these fools regardless. Frank the Tank. Cubs fans don't give a damn. Win all good.

So I can see a rental. I don't know who at all. The strength pending is lefty. Long term you want a right hander. But they have Kilian and Azolay. Not to mention there is always a RH pitcher on the market. That will always be a constant.

If I had to sit down and look at this hard. And ask the question who makes sense? Well it would have to be better than Thompson. He is the #5. I would rate Steel as the #2 right now. He has proven stable. Azolay is on a innings limit this year. I see him as the #3. #4 is Mills. Split up him and Kyle. But he can toss a gem 3-5 times a year. I see him holding for Wicks. The last guy. It comes down to Thompson. As of right now? No he is a middle relief.

I've heard her Pax on a flip deal and I am pretty good with it.

Steele hasn't proven much of anything yet. Alzolay really appears to be much better as a BP arm to me. Other than that I mostly agree with you

 

[CSF77]

Steele hasn't proven much of anything yet. Alzolay really appears to be much better as a BP arm to me. Other than that I mostly agree with you

I can't fight that with facts. Fip has both near 5. But according to Fip Mills is the staff ace.

One note though. I'm not sure if it means much but looking as the more successful Cubs they had a BABIP closer to .200 vs .300. Steel is at a .239 right now. I know that he has been working on pitching to contact and he has had success. SO per 9 is at 9.75.

So he is something to work with. By the time Wicks gets up he will be an established pitcher.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

A lot of people got this wrong. Alzolay has hardly pitched. He could still be a great starting pitcher. People giving up on him already just don't know a damn thing about developing pitching.

Steele and Thompson are at best 4/5 rotation level starters, and Alzolay could be a 2/3 with his stuff. You don't just give up on that after his first ever full season in baseball.

We don't have a legit ace in our system. Herz can be that but he has yet to show he can pitch more than 5-6 innings, and that won't be efficient enough in the majors. He has to learn to not just miss bats but throw fewer pitches. He is gonna need more time than others to get there.

Killian is our best option at another 2/3 starter. He isn't going to blow people away but he can be here very quickly to help.

Wicks can easily be a 2/3 starter as well, but not an ACE.

We have plenty of guys who can fill in the 2,3,4,5 spots but no official slump stopper, and ideally a WS team has 2-3 of those guys.

Our starting staff is going to be built again through FA, or by trading some bats. But, on the bright side, we have plenty of depth for the back end of a world series rotation. We just don't have that front end of the rotation in our system as of now.

 

[CSF77]

A lot of people got this wrong. Alzolay has hardly pitched. He could still be a great starting pitcher. People giving up on him already just don't know a damn thing about developing pitching.

Steele and Thompson are at best 4/5 rotation level starters, and Alzolay could be a 2/3 with his stuff. You don't just give up on that after his first ever full season in baseball.

We don't have a legit ace in our system. Herz can be that but he has yet to show he can pitch more than 5-6 innings, and that won't be efficient enough in the majors. He has to learn to not just miss bats but throw fewer pitches. He is gonna need more time than others to get there.

Killian is our best option at another 2/3 starter. He isn't going to blow people away but he can be here very quickly to help.

Wicks can easily be a 2/3 starter as well, but not an ACE.

We have plenty of guys who can fill in the 2,3,4,5 spots but no official slump stopper, and ideally a WS team has 2-3 of those guys.

Our starting staff is going to be built again through FA, or by trading some bats. But, on the bright side, we have plenty of depth for the back end of a world series rotation. We just don't have that front end of the rotation in our system as of now.

This is fair. If Marquez gets back on track then the have 2 TOR types.

I can think that we can agree that Hendricks is not an ace. For that matter he might be starting his decline now.

I believe most of the hate on Adbert is on his LH vs RH splits. LH has punked him. But he has worked up a change up and is going to it more vs lefties. I think that he needs to even out his pitch selection. He has great stuff. He has a tendency of sticking to one pitch too much. Last year it was the curve. This year the slider. He needs to know when to use them. Slider foir the knock out. Curve to reset a count and so on. Being able to drop a hammer over the middle for a freeze is something that he needs to work on next. Keep them guessing vs sitting on the slider.

 

[CSF77]

But if you take away off of the garbage and personal opinions.

#1 Bauer. Give him a shot to redeem himself. Cubs have LH depth upwelling and targeting a right handed TOR balances it out and to be honest Hendricks might end up traded while his value is still respected.

#2 Thor. Same as above. Both have issues but this is in a vacuum.

#3 Gausman I believe he resigns with the Giants but he will command the most here. He is the top ranked target and in a vacuum he is the best pitcher. Maybe but Bauer has a cy young. Thor pegs 100. In a vacuum Gausman doesn't have those credentials yet.

After that it would be lefties. But I am targeting RHP because Hendricks is not an ace and neither is Alzolay. Marquez and Herz have TOR upside. Wicks has #3 upside.

If you are going for a term contract you target the hole. Not the whole.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Brennan Davis moved up to AAA!

 

[knoxville7]

But if you take away off of the garbage and personal opinions.

#1 Bauer. Give him a shot to redeem himself. Cubs have LH depth upwelling and targeting a right handed TOR balances it out and to be honest Hendricks might end up traded while his value is still respected.

#2 Thor. Same as above. Both have issues but this is in a vacuum.

#3 Gausman I believe he resigns with the Giants but he will command the most here. He is the top ranked target and in a vacuum he is the best pitcher. Maybe but Bauer has a cy young. Thor pegs 100. In a vacuum Gausman doesn't have those credentials yet.

After that it would be lefties. But I am targeting RHP because Hendricks is not an ace and neither is Alzolay. Marquez and Herz have TOR upside. Wicks has #3 upside.

If you are going for a term contract you target the hole. Not the whole.

Lol last offseason you said how the cubs should stay away from Bauer. Now that he has a criminal investigation going on, you say we should sign him. Jesus dude

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Lol last offseason you said how the cubs should stay away from Bauer. Now that he has a criminal investigation going on, you say we should sign him. Jesus dude

You never know when you'll agree with csf as his opinions change daily

 

[knoxville7]

You never know when you'll agree with csf as his opinions change daily

I mean, for the record…I’m not totally against signing him to a one year deal if he’s available this off season. It’s just csf’s total 180’s all the time, as you and everyone here knows lol

 

[TL1961]

But if you take away off of the garbage and personal opinions.

#1 Bauer. Give him a shot to redeem himself. Cubs have LH depth upwelling and targeting a right handed TOR balances it out and to be honest Hendricks might end up traded while his value is still respected.

#2 Thor. Same as above. Both have issues but this is in a vacuum.

#3 Gausman I believe he resigns with the Giants but he will command the most here. He is the top ranked target and in a vacuum he is the best pitcher. Maybe but Bauer has a cy young. Thor pegs 100. In a vacuum Gausman doesn't have those credentials yet.

After that it would be lefties. But I am targeting RHP because Hendricks is not an ace and neither is Alzolay. Marquez and Herz have TOR upside. Wicks has #3 upside.

If you are going for a term contract you target the hole. Not the whole.

There’s no way the Cubs are going to sign Bauer and if they do I will not be a fan.

 

[Snicker_Dickens]

There’s no way the Cubs are going to sign Bauer and if they do I will not be a fan.

It's funny how Bauer was the player blasting the mlb for their witch hunt for ball influenced substance use. Then, he wins a Cy Young which make his voice even bigger than ever before. All of a sudden, the player talking the most shit against the league is hammered with a sexual assault charge. This is a backhanded way of showing every player what happens when their voice gets too big. The MLB shut up their problem child. Damn straight it is a conspiracy

 

[CSF77]

There’s no way the Cubs are going to sign Bauer and if they do I will not be a fan.

Like I said vacuum.

But in that situation. Yes. Healthy. Cy young. Was fitting the bill for LA.

Now reality

I believe LAA will pay for him. They need pitching that bad. Bauer will have little leverage going in but he gets to stay in LA.

Thor IMO resigns in NY and becomes the closer.

Gausman resigns with SFG. Why would he leave? It finally works and the team matters.

For a scrap heap team like the Cubs? Rent and flip until the youth arrive. No pitcher worth his salt will waste his prime on the Cubs. A pitcher like Jake trying to catch on yep.

Pax might be as good as it gets. Or Jed pulls a trade which is always a scenerio. Trade Kyle and Contreras for 2 younger MLB ready arms. Can happen and contenders do stuff like this to get into a meaningful season quicker.

 

[CSF77]

Oh my. Davis is at Iowa now. First 2 AB went yard.

There is an outside chance that he breaks with the MLB roster.

 

[Diehardfan]

I mean, for the record…I’m not totally against signing him to a one year deal if he’s available this off season. It’s just csf’s total 180’s all the time, as you and everyone here knows lol

Being the Chief Windsock of the CCS Cubs Forum has responsibilities, he has to keep his options open. He throws a ton of useless shit out there but has anything he proposed actually transpired? You would think he must have stumbled across something......

 

[CSF77]

Lol last offseason you said how the cubs should stay away from Bauer. Now that he has a criminal investigation going on, you say we should sign him. Jesus dude

Yet again. I said in a vacuum he is the best pitcher in the market.

Remove the garbage and he is a TOR.

As far as what is going on with his personal life and the court stuff. That is due process and he is innocent until proven guilty. If he turns out guilty then this is a dead topic as he will most likely be wearing a orange uni.

As far as my opinion of him? I liked his you tube stuff. He knew how to break down pitching. I don't know much more on the guy. But the Dodgers were willing to give him 30 mil so he doesn't suck as a pitcher

 

[CSF77]

Being the Chief Windsock of the CCS Cubs Forum has responsibilities, he has to keep his options open. He throws a ton of useless shit out there but has anything he proposed actually transpired? You would think he must have stumbled across something......

No one could have predicted Schwindel and Ortega. After that played out I toned down my opinions.


But I would rather have a open mind to change vs being a closed minded asshole who clams up when wrong.

 

[Parade_Rain]

No one could have predicted Schwindel and Ortega. After that played out I toned down my opinions.


But I would rather have a open mind to change vs being a closed minded asshole who clams up when wrong.

It's the internet. If you aren't 100% right all the time, people are going to cancel your opinions because theirs are so much better...according to them anyway. It took me a bit when I first joined the Cubs forum years ago, but I read your lists as brainstorming what can be done. It's a presentation of possibilities, not a prediction as the Cubs forum Nostradamus.

And yes. Not enough people have an open mind on the internet. It's a shame. So much to learn, so much knowledge available, a much larger group of experiences to share.