Cubs Farm System And Prospects Discussion Thread

[JP Hochbaum]

I'm not sure the Cubs are getting enough in the deal.

You like that deal as a Sox fan? Curious...

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Sox would never trade with the Cubs

That is why you involve a third team, you trick old man Reinsdorf that there is not Cubs involvement.

 

[CSF77]

Sox would never trade with the Cubs

Jerry is just like a anemic Mets owner getting mad over his smaller share of the pie.

 

[CSF77]

As far as pitching goes they already worked those deals. Mills and Butler both have solid potential to back fill 2 spots. What they really need is a legit 2nd LHSP

 

[DanTown]

Someone suggested Happ Candelario and Jimenez gets you Q with cheap years as the perfect TOR without losing a single guy off of the main roster.

The Cubs don't have a need for Quintana that makes it logical to give up 18 years of control on three MLB ready players. The Cubs would really be no more or less likely to win the WS this year with that deal so now we're talking about future value. Seeing as you only get three years out of him and while he's a solid pitcher, he's not a true ace, I don't see the value to the Cubs nor do I see the Cubs shoving all their position player assets in for a guy like that.

 

[DanTown]

With the Sox I would try to work out a 3 team deal:

White Sox get Candelario
Team C gets Frazier
Cubs get a top 20 pitching prospect from team C.

what do the Cubs need a C for with Caratini and Contreras here? Caratini has a grade of 45 where as only five catchers in all of basetball have grades above 50 and they are 55, 55, 55, 55, 55.

 

[chibears55]

Take it however you want but its interesting to see that Happ been playing 2B, getting work in at 3B, and starting in CF tonight...

Whether its for a possible move up later this year or next year, it looks as if Happ is here to stay...

I'm thinking he could be LaStella replacement at some point this year

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[beckdawg]

what do the Cubs need a C for with Caratini and Contreras here? Caratini has a grade of 45 where as only five catchers in all of basetball have grades above 50 and they are 55, 55, 55, 55, 55.

Think he means white sox get Candelario, Team X gets fraizer and the cubs get a pitching prospect from team x not that the cubs would get a catching prospect.

 

[fatbeard]

Take it however you want but its interesting to see that Happ been playing 2B, getting work in at 3B, and starting in CF tonight...

Whether its for a possible move up later this year or next year, it looks as if Happ is here to stay...

I'm thinking he could be LaStella replacement at some point this year

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Ian Happ is not getting promoted so that he can get one PA a week. Just stop with this awful idea.

 

[brett05]

The Cubs don't have a need for Quintana that makes it logical to give up 18 years of control on three MLB ready players. The Cubs would really be no more or less likely to win the WS this year with that deal so now we're talking about future value. Seeing as you only get three years out of him and while he's a solid pitcher, he's not a true ace, I don't see the value to the Cubs nor do I see the Cubs shoving all their position player assets in for a guy like that.

The Cubs would be more likely and would vastly improve their pitching staff. He's also an ace no matter how you want to denegrate him. Top 10-15 pitchers in the game for the past 4+ years.

 

[Icculus]

Why not? They have in the past. Talent available and matchups dictate where you go to trade. Besides, I think they'd like to even up for the Sosa for Bell deal back in the 90's.

They already did in the Jon Garland for Matt Karchner trade in '98.

 

[DanTown]

The Cubs would be more likely and would vastly improve their pitching staff. He's also an ace no matter how you want to denegrate him. Top 10-15 pitchers in the game for the past 4+ years.

WAR since 2015

Arrieta - 11.4
Lester - 9.9
Quintana - 9.4
Hendricks - 9.1
Lackey - 6.8

You simply don't get that much marginal improvement to replace a 6.8 with a 9.4. If we're talking Chris Sale or something then I can see the argument but even still, it doesn't really move the needle on the Cubs chances. So we're now talking about getting three years out of Quintana.

But if the playoffs started tomorrow, the probability that Quintana outpitches Lackey to the point it's worth giving up two top 25 prospects plus another MLB ready prospect is simply not that great. And that doesn't mean Quintana is some terrible pitcher, it means the Cubs have the depth that they don't need to make a move like that. Also, his FIP the last two years (3.16 and 3.56) are not so great that I want to buy his aging curve.

The question isn't how good Quintanta HAS been, it's how good WILL he be in the future. And I think there's some concern that he settles in to being a good pitcher who throws a ton of innings, which is valuable for 162 games but it's not some playoff game dynamic pitcher that makes it worth giving up three prospects for.

 

[brett05]

WAR since 2015

Arrieta - 11.4
Lester - 9.9
Quintana - 9.4
Hendricks - 9.1
Lackey - 6.8

You simply don't get that much marginal improvement to replace a 6.8 with a 9.4. If we're talking Chris Sale or something then I can see the argument but even still, it doesn't really move the needle on the Cubs chances. So we're now talking about getting three years out of Quintana.

But if the playoffs started tomorrow, the probability that Quintana outpitches Lackey to the point it's worth giving up two top 25 prospects plus another MLB ready prospect is simply not that great. And that doesn't mean Quintana is some terrible pitcher, it means the Cubs have the depth that they don't need to make a move like that. Also, his FIP the last two years (3.16 and 3.56) are not so great that I want to buy his aging curve.

The question isn't how good Quintanta HAS been, it's how good WILL he be in the future. And I think there's some concern that he settles in to being a good pitcher who throws a ton of innings, which is valuable for 162 games but it's not some playoff game dynamic pitcher that makes it worth giving up three prospects for.

We can agree to disagree. Just because the experts agree with me, doesn't mean it's right.

 

[CSF77]

WAR since 2015

Arrieta - 11.4
Lester - 9.9
Quintana - 9.4
Hendricks - 9.1
Lackey - 6.8

You simply don't get that much marginal improvement to replace a 6.8 with a 9.4. If we're talking Chris Sale or something then I can see the argument but even still, it doesn't really move the needle on the Cubs chances. So we're now talking about getting three years out of Quintana.

But if the playoffs started tomorrow, the probability that Quintana outpitches Lackey to the point it's worth giving up two top 25 prospects plus another MLB ready prospect is simply not that great. And that doesn't mean Quintana is some terrible pitcher, it means the Cubs have the depth that they don't need to make a move like that. Also, his FIP the last two years (3.16 and 3.56) are not so great that I want to buy his aging curve.

The question isn't how good Quintanta HAS been, it's how good WILL he be in the future. And I think there's some concern that he settles in to being a good pitcher who throws a ton of innings, which is valuable for 162 games but it's not some playoff game dynamic pitcher that makes it worth giving up three prospects for.

Q is one of the highest valued trade chips there is. Jerry would never sell that weapon to the Cubs. He would rather sell it to a team in the NL central to keep the Cubs from winning the division.

He is that kinda buddy.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Ian Happ is not getting promoted so that he can get one PA a week. Just stop with this awful idea.

No question. Why would anyone want to halt this kid's development so he can be a marginally better bench player than La Stella? Makes no sense.

 

[CSF77]

No question. Why would anyone want to halt this kid's development so he can be a marginally better bench player than La Stella? Makes no sense.

They are making him play 3B also. So that puts him in the OF 3B and 2B. I believe they view him as a bench player as of right now. But I also believe that Baez will be traded to create playing time. At that point he would be learning under Zo for most likely a year then taking over the following. Much the same Contreras and Montero are going through.

 

[fatbeard]

They are making him play 3B also. So that puts him in the OF 3B and 2B. I believe they view him as a bench player as of right now. But I also believe that Baez will be traded to create playing time. At that point he would be learning under Zo for most likely a year then taking over the following. Much the same Contreras and Montero are going through.

Happ has always been viewed as a starter and he's not a replacement for Baez, he's a replacement for Zobrist. The plan was always to transition Happ as Zobrist aged out of effectiveness, but Happ is developing offensively quicker than expected. Trading Baez to make room for Happ makes no sense; they've got completely different skillsets.

 

[chibears55]

Javy Baez is a trading piece that can net you a TOR type starter at deadline...

Happ playing 2b 3B and OF and being a SH, makes him a potential Baez replacement for 2nd half if that the route they need to take to get a TOR starter later in year.

As far as what I said about possibly replacing LaStella..
If LaStella struggling later in season,
Happ being a SH and playing multiple positions would just add another option to bench Maddon could use everyday.

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[CSF77]

Happ has always been viewed as a starter and he's not a replacement for Baez, he's a replacement for Zobrist. The plan was always to transition Happ as Zobrist aged out of effectiveness, but Happ is developing offensively quicker than expected. Trading Baez to make room for Happ makes no sense; they've got completely different skillsets.

No. Javy's main use is as a back up SS. Happ covers most positions that Javy plays once he gets 3B. That leaves SS as the team weakness if they do deal Javy. That is why Young figuring out SS this year holds high value to the team.

Now Happ should end up starting but not until he adjusts to the league. Zo will still be 37 next year and Happ should gain playing time as he adapts.

This is going to be a transition vs a outright position take over.

So Javy should hold high trade leverage and you add Candilero to him you then can start to net some pitching in return.

I'm thinking moreso 2018. At that point Young and Happ would be the core bench players. Jay, Szczur and Montero would most likely be gone. Young and Happ both can play the OF and cover 2B and 3B with Young as the back up SS. Then you add Caratini in as Contreras' back up. That provides plenty of flexibility on the bench where they could add/subtract a arm/bat as needed with out causing a upheaval.

Right now they are juggling that 26th man to prevent losing Szczur to wavers. Not to mention Lastella and Szczur have 0 impact on the team.

 

[fatbeard]

Javy Baez is a trading piece that can net you a TOR type starter at deadline...

No, he isn't. He is not even an established starter and there are still huge questions about whether his offense/power will ever materialize. Versatile, defense-first platoon-type players do not net TOR-type starters in a trade. Not in this universe or any other. Put down the crack pipe.

Happ playing 2b 3B and OF and being a SH, makes him a potential Baez replacement for 2nd half if that the route they need to take to get a TOR starter later in year.

Again, Baez is an incredibly versatile defensive wiz, a skillset that is more important in the playoffs when all the pitching is great and run suppression becomes critical. Happ does not have that skillset, he's like Zobrist: A good, patient offensive player who can play a number of positions but doesn't have a special glove at any of them.

As far as what I said about possibly replacing LaStella..
If LaStella struggling later in season,
Happ being a SH and playing multiple positions would just add another option to bench Maddon could use everyday.

Happ is an emerging player who needs to be playing every day. Calling him up to get two PAs per week as a PH is just a jaw-droppingly stupid player development decision. Why is this so difficult?

Javy's main use is as a back up SS.

Is there some sort of competition going on about who can make the dumbest statements about Javy Baez? Jeez...