Cubs offseason needs/ Talk

[Diehardfan]

Soooo....now going out and trying to buy a World Series is the way to go. What a great idea!! Who are the big spenders....The Yankees, the Angels, the Dodgers, Red Sox, the Braves and recently the Mets and Phillies. In the last 20 years nobody but Boston on that list has won any more World Series than the Cubs or White Sox. Trying to buy instant gratification very rarely works....it converts your franchise into a short term financial fiasco.

What's the point of rebuilding if you end up trying to buy it in the end anyway?

 

[Castor76]

Soooo....now going out and trying to buy a World Series is the way to go. What a great idea!! Who are the big spenders....The Yankees, the Angels, the Dodgers, Red Sox, the Braves and recently the Mets and Phillies. In the last 20 years nobody but Boston on that list has won any more World Series than the Cubs or White Sox. Trying to buy instant gratification very rarely works....it converts your franchise into a short term financial fiasco.

What's the point of rebuilding if you end up trying to buy it in the end anyway?

This century only the Red Sox, Cardinals, Giants, and now Astros have more than one title. Houston got back there by being a top 10 spender. The Dodgers have been in contention for a decade by being the only team that manages to both spend and have a great farm system. The gamble on trading for Devers is that any players traded for him could be stars while he's out the door after 1 season. There's also the risk that the prospects flop and suddenly have no value. And I don't see people talking about going all Mets for the next 3 seasons. Money wise, the Cubs can take on Devers contract and have plenty dropping off to be able to re-sign him for 2024 and beyond. The Cubs are project to be over 117M under the CBT for 2024. Even if the Cubs signed him to a 35M AAV deal, and they went with buy outs on the options they have, they'd still right at 75M for arbitration and trying to sign other FAs. Like anything, it's all about the asking price. What players would it take to get him and what dollars and years to keep him. But you put him in that line up for 2023, sign Hosmer on the cheap for 1B D, and you have something that looks fairly good.

Hoerner 2B
Swanson SS
Bellinger CF
Devers 3B
Happ LF
Suzuki RF
Mervis DH
Barnhart C
Hosmer 1B

5 of the Cubs top 10 prospects are outfielders and all have 2024 MLB ETAs or sooner. It's gamble, but better to bet on a more known quantity, imo.

 

[Castor76]

Yawn? That translates to "I can't make an actual argument and my stance allows me to ***** no matter what if the outcome is bad and cheer if it's good without commitment from me." Nice come back there, pumpkin.

 

[Raskolnikov]

That's the scary truth of it. PCA, for all he showed last year, was all also only at single A level. Devers is a known quantity. The risk in trading for him is that he's set to be a FA after the season. So it depends on if the team can have enough success in the one season and hope to keep him for the prolonged future versus letting him hit the market and trying to get him just for money. I guess the big question becomes "Does trading for Devers make the Cubs legit division contenders." If your answer to that is yes, then I think it's worth trading for him and getting a head start on signing him versus waiting until 2023 FA. The idea of adding Sale to the mix is if he'd be considered a David Price like add in to reduce the prospect cost or just get the money off of Boston's books and the Cubs hope for the best.

Devers is as good of a hitter as I have ever seen.

He’s too good to be real, like a guy like that you have to assume the green monster is helping but the question is how much is it helping?

 

[Castor76]

Devers is as good of a hitter as I have ever seen.

He’s too good to be real, like a guy like that you have to assume the green monster is helping but the question is how much is it helping?

Looking at his career home/away splits, its .292/.349/.522 versus .273/.335/.503, so it's better in Fenway but not like Coors Field difference. Looking closer, I'd say it's hitting a lot of doubles of the Monster because he has almost 33% more homers away versus home. Here's link to his 2020-22 spray chart.

 

[TL1961]

You just cannot tear it all down for a rebuild, and give up a package of prospects for a FA to be without knowing he's locked up. In the Cubs situation, since they're not competing in 2023 even with him, the sensible thing to do is wait to pursue a 3rd baseman in FA next off season

Chances are he either signs with Boston or gets traded to a team willing to pony up, so he may not hit FA. But Machado is expected to. We're just not at the point where trading prospects for a potential one year window makes good sense, even if the player himself is a stud.

 

[CSF77]

Thanks so much for the news flash....

That article is 5 days old.

Yes. Saw that. But news is flowing like molasses so didn't care

 

[CSF77]

So off topic:

How about some early picks:

Break out pitcher.

Break out hitter.

Team MVP

Team ROY

Black sheep pick. Guy no one thought of.

Pitcher for me is Steele. He kinda had one but he needs to push 150 innings to really flash the break out card.

Suzuki is my hitter. Injury was a set back. His finish was strong.

MVP:. Swanson.

ROY: going with Hayden. Even with a innings limit he is going in with a bit of success and a strong pitching approach

Black sheep. Shoot kinda want to go with Marquez. Kilian is another guy that might break out in the pen. There are a few guys that could do this as pen arms. Marquez was brought back on a minor league deal after shoulder surgery in June.

He would be one hell of a black sheep pick but I have to go with Kilian. I can see his heavy fastball getting use in the pen.

 

[Diehardfan]

So off topic:

How about some early picks:

Break out pitcher.

Break out hitter.

Team MVP

Team ROY

Black sheep pick. Guy no one thought of.

Pitcher for me is Steele. He kinda had one but he needs to push 150 innings to really flash the break out card.

Suzuki is my hitter. Injury was a set back. His finish was strong.

MVP:. Swanson.

ROY: going with Hayden. Even with a innings limit he is going in with a bit of success and a strong pitching approach

Black sheep. Shoot kinda want to go with Marquez. Kilian is another guy that might break out in the pen. There are a few guys that could do this as pen arms. Marquez was brought back on a minor league deal after shoulder surgery in June.

He would be one hell of a black sheep pick but I have to go with Kilian. I can see his heavy fastball getting use in the pen.

I'm gonna go with Codi Heuer.....a lot of times, players come back after TJ surgery and are better. I liked him before he got hurt....so he's my choice.

 

[TL1961]

I'm gonna go with Codi Heuer.....a lot of times, players come back after TJ surgery and are better. I liked him before he got hurt....so he's my choice.

Boy, I hope so. Like you, I also liked him before the injury. I have high hopes for him. He's the one guy from the trade that didn't suck.

 

[TL1961]

Breakout hitter - Bellinger?

 

[Diehardfan]

Breakout hitter - Bellinger?

It would be nice, I'd love to see it.....but the fact is the guy hasn't done jackshit over the last three seasons. Injuries or not....three years is long time to suck.

 

[CSF77]

I'm gonna go with Codi Heuer.....a lot of times, players come back after TJ surgery and are better. I liked him before he got hurt....so he's my choice.

I was thinking of him also. I just really feel that Kilian is too good and will end up as a strong pen arm. Heuer should be on a limit like Marquez will be. I just see that heavy fastball from Kilian being Ross's love child with his GG D up the middle.

 

[CSF77]

It would be nice, I'd love to see it.....but the fact is the guy hasn't done jackshit over the last three seasons. Injuries or not....three years is long time to suck.

Didn't really think of him. He already had a break out though. Now comeback yes he would be up for that. MVP also. I would love to have a season long debate over him and Swanson on team MVP.

 

[knoxville7]

Breakout hitter - Bellinger?

I believe that would be a “re-breakout” lol

 

[TL1961]

It would be nice, I'd love to see it.....but the fact is the guy hasn't done jackshit over the last three seasons. Injuries or not....three years is long time to suck.

Well, he was a far cry from his MVP year, but he did hit 19 HRs while playing great D. If any Cub did that fans would be pushing him for MVP.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Well, he was a far cry from his MVP year, but he did hit 19 HRs while playing great D. If any Cub did that fans would be pushing him for MVP.

Wisdom I think had more HRs and is apparently gold glove caliber.

Also happ had 17 and a gold glove

 

[Bearsy555]

MLB insider predicts the Cubs could trade for Rafael Devers

CBS writer Matt Snyder recently predicted that the Cubs will trade for Rafael Devers during the 2023 season then sign him long-term.

www.chicitysports.com

This would be a huge win especially if the Cubs are able to lock Devers up long term.

 

[CSF77]

Orioles, Cubs Interested In Eric Hosmer Why to fear this Pads are paying him for 3 years. Any team that signs only pays league min. Right up Jed's alley.

 

[Castor76]

You just cannot tear it all down for a rebuild, and give up a package of prospects for a FA to be without knowing he's locked up. In the Cubs situation, since they're not competing in 2023 even with him, the sensible thing to do is wait to pursue a 3rd baseman in FA next off season

Chances are he either signs with Boston or gets traded to a team willing to pony up, so he may not hit FA. But Machado is expected to. We're just not at the point where trading prospects for a potential one year window makes good sense, even if the player himself is a stud.

Let me be clear here. You're saying the Cubs shouldn't trade for a player because he'll be a FA after 2023 season even and they can try to sign him then but then say whatever team trades for him will probably also sign him to an extension? I'm not disagreeing with the idea of holding on to what the team has and trying to fill 3B after this season. All I'm cautioning against is banking on the prospects holding or becoming more valuable versus dropping in value.