Cubs offseason rumors/transactions

[chibears55]

Best move was the pitching coach. Edwards and Wilson both fixed are major improvements over last year.

They lost: Davis. Not replacing it without going over priced.

Kuji well wasn’t there anyways

Duesing. Not a high leverage guy but did the job.

Replaced by: Morrow well a down grade to Davis.

Wilson. He was a hindrance. Fixed he is a major weapon.

Edwards: BB/9 were a train wreck and was not trust worthy in the play offs. Fixed again another weapon.

Smyly: the Cubs have nothing in AAA. Alzolay in AA. Hatch and De La Cruz are more iffy. Then A ball where you have 3 quality arms. Taking a flyer on Smyly was brilliant.

Now Chatwood: he is fixable. He had to lower his arm slot pitching in Coors to induce that high % of GB’s. Many are looking at him as: GB’s work in Wrigg. Well I don’t see that approach. He came in as a high spin rate fastball thrower that Coors Killed. Higher spin- more pitch movement. Then he has a 12/6 hammer that Coors killed. Which axed his 2 primary weapons. And his numbers were still good enough with out them.

Honestly I believe we got a steal with him. You have Jim who can fix mechanics and Hickey’s philosophy on pitching. That means moving his arm slot back up and getting his movement back. Then using his knock out pitches to get ahead.

We could end up with another Arrieta

I look at it this way..

Alvarez for Duensing Blah

Morrow for Davis Blah

Chatwood for Lackey good

Nothing for Arrieta

Nothing for any position bench


So for me it been a blah off season so far for what i was hoping to be an improved roster for 2018..

Still time, hopefully some better addition added

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[CSF77]

I disagree. Even if they think they have internal options they are going to want to maximize value. Let's say that Montgomery is something that Baltimore wants. That type of deal will be there all season long, so no reason to trade him now which is why I said the Cubs don't have enough.

Depends. Say they do trade for Salazar and the door closes on Montgomery. Now his squalling started after the Smyly signing. Before then it was 4 guys and a battle that he had the clear edge. Smyly signaled a not so stable future for him. Now he may get the 4-5 but signing Smyly shows a lack of trust to his ability.

Now I get where he is coming from. It’s like I’m still young. My numbers are good enough to start but you refuse to let me do it. First you sign a looser and give him the spot and when that trainwreck crashed you gave it to a coin flip from Col.

Now you go and sign another DL case to take the future opertunites.

Honestly Theo and Jed have kinda shit on the guy. Playing the we are going to start you in S/T. Which means we are going easy on that he starters early on not you are getting squat. Ya I get how this came out.


So I take it as Theo might just deal him now. They are all about the clubhouse and that energy feeds both ways. If a guy is unhappy then move him to a opertunity vs be a bunch of jackwads and lead the guy on.

 

[brett05]

They may deal Montgomery now, but his type are not rare which is why I said the deal will always be there at that low level.

 

[CSF77]

I look at it this way..

Alvarez for Duensing Blah

Morrow for Davis Blah

Chatwood for Lackey good

Nothing for Arrieta

Nothing for any position bench


So for me it been a blah off season so far for what i was hoping to be an improved roster for 2018..

Still time, hopefully some better addition added

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Wilson > Wilson
Edwards > Edwards

Both were useless. Both have been far better.

Morrow > Kuji. Signing a 42 yo was questionable in the first place.

Arrieta- nothing is correct. Salazar would stymy that

Davis- nothing. Ya but again falls on Edwards and Maples. This may end up internal with Morrow as the opening day guy.

Let’s face it most of the arms that have been coming up are high leverage arms that failed as starters. The default is the pen. That is why they don’t invest heavy there.

If you get trade for Salazar and call it I’m good. They have talent in the pen and 2 guys that can mold them now. I’m good with it.

I felt the biggest challenge was replacing Jake. Not Davis. They have never over spent in the pen

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Names are starting to trickle out a potential deal with Cleveland: Happ for Salazar but Kipnis comes with as a salary dump. I'm down with that.

 

[Omeletpants]

Keep Happ, dump the one trick pony Schwarber

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Keep Happ, dump the one trick pony Schwarber

It's not happening man, so we'll just settle in and listen to you bitch about Schwarber all year long.

 

[Omeletpants]

It's not happening man, so we'll just settle in and listen to you bitch about Schwarber all year long.

I won't be the only one. I'll let you be his apologist

 

[fatbeard]

Not enough. Need at least two start pieces.

How many starting pieces did they get back in exchange for Stanton and Ozuna?

 

[chibears55]

Wilson > Wilson
Edwards > Edwards

Both were useless. Both have been far better.

Morrow > Kuji. Signing a 42 yo was questionable in the first place.

Arrieta- nothing is correct. Salazar would stymy that

Davis- nothing. Ya but again falls on Edwards and Maples. This may end up internal with Morrow as the opening day guy.

Let’s face it most of the arms that have been coming up are high leverage arms that failed as starters. The default is the pen. That is why they don’t invest heavy there.

If you get trade for Salazar and call it I’m good. They have talent in the pen and 2 guys that can mold them now. I’m good with it.

I felt the biggest challenge was replacing Jake. Not Davis. They have never over spent in the pen

Wilson and Edwards were already a part of the team when season ended so their not replacing them ..that the point

Kuji wasnt anyrhing but depth

Morrow is either Rondon replacement or Davis replacement right now..Id prefer him to be Rondon replacement, that should be improvement..


They havent replaced Arrieta with anyone yet, so that still open ..

Youre mentioning guys that were already on the team as being the ones that could make pen better..
Unless im wrong wasnt the talk right after the season all about fixing the pen with a couple new players, to go along with hoping Edwards Wilson etc have better seasons?

They so far lost Rondon which is ok,
Duensing who was one of their good ones and Davis who was their best arm in pen..

Only addition so far has been
Alvarez and Morrow

That not exactly retooling the pen..
They need to bring back Davis or sign Reed or something of that caliber for closer..


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[chibears55]

It's not happening man, so we'll just settle in and listen to you bitch about Schwarber all year long.

Yea..
I was one who thought Schwarber had a shot at being moved but not no more..
He gonna get every opportunity to right himself next season, and so far he working hard starting with his weight/conditioning...

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[TL1961]

I would imagine Archer would cost the Cubs at the very least Schwarber, one of Baez/Russell, and Albertos at a minimum. Fans, media, etc can talk about Archer but if he really did hit the market, the bidding for him and that contract would be insane. I just don't see Archer being a Cub even if you get past the idea of whether the Rays even want to trade him.

That is an absurd price tag.

That’s enough for three Stantons. ?

 

[CSF77]

Wilson and Edwards were already a part of the team when season ended so their not replacing them ..that the point

Kuji wasnt anyrhing but depth

Morrow is either Rondon replacement or Davis replacement right now..Id prefer him to be Rondon replacement, that should be improvement..


They havent replaced Arrieta with anyone yet, so that still open ..

Youre mentioning guys that were already on the team as being the ones that could make pen better..
Unless im wrong wasnt the talk right after the season all about fixing the pen with a couple new players, to go along with hoping Edwards Wilson etc have better seasons?

They so far lost Rondon which is ok,
Duensing who was one of their good ones and Davis who was their best arm in pen..

Only addition so far has been
Alvarez and Morrow

That not exactly retooling the pen..
They need to bring back Davis or sign Reed or something of that caliber for closer..


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Improvement of a player is a upgrade. Edwards pushed out a 5+ BB/9 which was exploited by LAD. Wilson was over the top and was not even in the equation.

So by fixing their issues they all of a sudden become almost equal to new additions. Wilson especially as he was a non factor.

I see it as Theo replaced Jake in the Q trade. He replaced Duesing with Wilson. That is why he didn’t buy rentals and went with more control.

I believe that you are looking at it wrong. Opening day they had Davis replacing Chapman. They didn’t buy either. They traded for Q. They traded for Jake. Neither were free Agents. See the trend here?

Who have they bought? John and Jon. Both were on Bo-sox. Other word loyalty and connected. Chatwood who Theo has been on for a while. Smyly who pitched for Maddon and Hickey.

It is not in their nature to dump into a mega. I wouldn’t go into any offseason expecting something unpresident. Oh that’s is right. They did that with Ed Jax. Ya turned out great. And again with Heyward. Ya awesome.

 

[chibears55]

Improvement of a player is a upgrade. Edwards pushed out a 5+ BB/9 which was exploited by LAD. Wilson was over the top and was not even in the equation.

So by fixing their issues they all of a sudden become almost equal to new additions. Wilson especially as he was a non factor.

I see it as Theo replaced Jake in the Q trade. He replaced Duesing with Wilson. That is why he didn’t buy rentals and went with more control.

I believe that you are looking at it wrong. Opening day they had Davis replacing Chapman. They didn’t buy either. They traded for Q. They traded for Jake. Neither were free Agents. See the trend here?

Who have they bought? John and Jon. Both were on Bo-sox. Other word loyalty and connected. Chatwood who Theo has been on for a while. Smyly who pitched for Maddon and Hickey.

It is not in their nature to dump into a mega. I wouldn’t go into any offseason expecting something unpresident. Oh that’s is right. They did that with Ed Jax. Ya turned out great. And again with Heyward. Ya awesome.

They need a closer...PERIOD

If they do nothing else and Morrow is their closer, they did very little to nothing to improve their bullpen..

They in fact downgraded from Davis Duensing and Rondon
TO
Alvarez and Morrow


Right now their rotation is

Lester Quintana Hendricks Chatwood Montgomery...

They do nothing else it a downgrade over last year with Arrieta and Lackey being replaced by Chatwood and Montgomery


All im saying, as of right now im not excited with what they have..
I just hope they have a couple more moves in them to add a closer and a starter that will make the rotation and bullpen better then where it stands now...



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[CSF77]

That is an absurd price tag.

That’s enough for three Stantons. ?

Stanton went cheap because it was a payroll off load. They had to take Castro in return as it is.

Archer is on a vastly underpaid deal. To pry a Ace like him would cost equal talent that Q took. Basically a top 10 and a top 100. Some are even going further with what the Sox got for Sale. I believe that is a correct price tag and would be pointed towards in any business dealings.

The Cubs would have to give up either Baez or Russell to even start the conversation. Both are MLB SS. Not a guy in MB flexing his arms. Cease came with his concerns but his stuff was top 100. Only Maple had equal stuff in the system but his fate was sealed in the pen early in his career.

To put out a honest trade for Archer. It would cost Baez or Russell. Cubs would give up Baez first. Then a top tier starter. Cubs would push De La Cruz. TB would say Alzolay. After that it would just be lower level talent and guys we haven’t heard of. We’ll some of us Beck... not really performance guys but tools guys. But it would end up 4:1. And I wouldn’t expect any rule V types as they could have had that anyways.

 

[CSF77]

They need a closer...PERIOD

If they do nothing else and Morrow is their closer, they did very little to nothing to improve their bullpen..

They in fact downgraded from Davis Duensing and Rondon
TO
Alvarez and Morrow


Right now their rotation is

Lester Quintana Hendricks Chatwood Montgomery...

They do nothing else it a downgrade over last year with Arrieta and Lackey being replaced by Chatwood and Montgomery


All im saying, as of right now im not excited with what they have..
I just hope they have a couple more moves in them to add a closer and a starter that will make the rotation and bullpen better then where it stands now...



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And again you discount the improvement potential of Wilson and Edwards. Or just he potential of Maples.

Wilson’s SO/9 was about the same 12+ on the Cubs and Det. But B.B./9. 3.57 to 9.68. And you wonder why Boz got ass canned.

Edwards: B.B./9 2016 3.5 to 5.16

Davis 3.32 To 4.3

Strop 2.83 to 3.83

Rondon 1.41 to 3.14

See a trend here. If it was 1 or 2 guys then you would blame them. Right now I’m questioning Bosio and Contreras’ framing to be honest.

The thing is if they fix the core problem with the staff. And that is B.B./9 then the staff improves naturally. All you are doing is looking at it from a name perspective.

 

[Hammer]

Yelich (26) would be interesting option at leadoff just because he already is what Almora (23) could become in a year or 2.
On the other hand, it makes no sense to spend valuable resources on Cain (aged 31), considering he doesn't really fit with the overall age of Cubs core.
IMO, this is a moot point, I think Almora will prove to be a decent (if not solid) leadoff already in 2018.

Salazar would definitely be a good trade option (if Cubs decide not to pursue Darvish or Arrieta), but choosing from Happ/Baez/Schwarber trio, first guy to offer should probably be Schwarber (because he fits better in AL, considering defensive issues).

On the Archer debate, he may have a bargain contract, but from quality perspective, he's not even in the same ballpark as Sale, considering his best seasons are equal to Sale's worst ones, and most importantly - considering he really didn't perform well for 2 straight years.
So all in all, Baez, De La Cruz and/or Albertos (or some hitting prospect) is as far I'd go for him.

Btw. why people around here don't talk more about possible Gerrit Cole trade, he clearly looks like someone in need a change of scenery.

 

[CSF77]

Yelich (26) would be interesting option at leadoff just because he already is what Almora (23) could become in a year or 2.
On the other hand, it makes no sense to spend valuable resources on Cain (aged 31), considering he doesn't really fit with the overall age of Cubs core.
IMO, this is a moot point, I think Almora will prove to be a decent (if not solid) leadoff already in 2018.

Salazar would definitely be a good trade option (if Cubs decide not to pursue Darvish or Arrieta), but choosing from Happ/Baez/Schwarber trio, first guy to offer should probably be Schwarber (because he fits better in AL, considering defensive issues).

On the Archer debate, he may have a bargain contract, but from quality perspective, he's not even in the same ballpark as Sale, considering his best seasons are equal to Sale's worst ones, and most importantly - considering he really didn't perform well for 2 straight years.
So all in all, Baez, De La Cruz and/or Albertos (or some hitting prospect) is as far I'd go for him.

Btw. why people around here don't talk more about possible Gerrit Cole trade, he clearly looks like someone in need a change of scenery.

Trade in div is weird in general.

I’m all about a Cleveland Cubs deal. Not a Pitt/ Cubs. Even Sox/Cubs are out of div. Q didn’t bother me at all

 

[chibears55]

And again you discount the improvement potential of Wilson and Edwards. Or just he potential of Maples.

Wilson’s SO/9 was about the same 12+ on the Cubs and Det. But B.B./9. 3.57 to 9.68. And you wonder why Boz got ass canned.

Edwards: B.B./9 2016 3.5 to 5.16

Davis 3.32 To 4.3

Strop 2.83 to 3.83

Rondon 1.41 to 3.14

See a trend here. If it was 1 or 2 guys then you would blame them. Right now I’m questioning Bosio and Contreras’ framing to be honest.

The thing is if they fix the core problem with the staff. And that is B.B./9 then the staff improves naturally. All you are doing is looking at it from a name perspective.

And that great if they improve, but hoping a couple guys pitch better is not retooling and fixing the pen..They still need a closer, Morrow not a closer and going into season with that or committee is very risky..

They dont imorove significantly and or Morrow craps out as closer, then what ?

Now their trying to find pieces during the season and maybe spending assets in July on a closer..

They can address that now and by doing that it makes the pen better because now the other guys roles drop a level to where they can excell..




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[SilenceS]

Bruce Levine‏ @MLBBruceLevine
1h1 hour ago

Cubs Theo Epstein said it is likely nothing more gets done fir his club at the meetings which end tomorrow. " That can change with one phone call"