Cubs @ Pirates IGT July 8-10

how many wins?


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Rice Cube

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Yeah, I think they'd either just keep Quade or promote a guy from within if they're rebuilding, and hire someone more competent if they're actually trying to contend.
 

dabynsky

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doesn't seem very likely to me.
Billy Martin says hi...
Yeah, I think they'd either just keep Quade or promote a guy from within if they're rebuilding, and hire someone more competent if they're actually trying to contend.

I don't think they would bring back Riggs either. I think that Quade likely gets a reprieve this year under the injury banner. If Hendry stays another year, he really can't fire him because that would be the fourth manager he has hired. How many GMs get to hire 4 managers for one team? If we have a new GM, more than likely he lets Quade play out the string next year to "evaluate" him.

I just like the option of Riggleman and don't see why he wouldn't come back to a completely different organization than the one he left. Since he came back and did some postgame for the Crosstown Classic he clearly still has some ties to Chicago.
 

Rice Cube

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Why won't the Astros win?
 

dabynsky

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Why won't the Astros win?

Because the Astros don't have any real talent. I mean have you looked at their roster. It is beyond terrible at just about every part. The Cubs at least have some excuse for being this bad since they have been the hardest hit with injuries. The Astros just plain suck.
 

Rice Cube

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Because the Astros don't have any real talent. I mean have you looked at their roster. It is beyond terrible at just about every part. The Cubs at least have some excuse for being this bad since they have been the hardest hit with injuries. The Astros just plain suck.

Oh yeah, I know that. I just want to make up some of that 7 game gap. KC is only half a game up on the Cubs too hehe.
 

Rick

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Now there's the Ramon Ortiz I thought we were gonna see a week ago...
 

DewsSox79

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Because the Astros don't have any real talent. I mean have you looked at their roster. It is beyond terrible at just about every part. The Cubs at least have some excuse for being this bad since they have been the hardest hit with injuries. The Astros just plain suck.

I hope you arent one of those fans that believes if it wasnt for injuries you would be contending......please say you are not one of those.
 

Rice Cube

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I think this was an 80-win team at best even if everyone were healthy. They'd need insane production from every single player to get to 85-88 or whatever wins they need to contend. It wasn't realistic. Not impossible, but improbable.
 

dabynsky

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I hope you arent one of those fans that believes if it wasnt for injuries you would be contending......please say you are not one of those.

Without injuries I thought this would be a slightly below 500 team. That is good enough for contending in this division (Cincy is 1 under and only 3 out), but no I don't believe this is a good team. I also don't believe that the record is reflective of the talent on the 25 man roster on opening day. In fact if you look at the quote I didn't say that injuries complete explain the Cubs record. I said that it is some of the reason why they are this bad.
 
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DewsSox79

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Without injuries I thought this would be a slightly below 500 team. That is good enough for contending in this division (Cincy is 1 under and only 3 out), but no I don't believe this is a good team. I also don't believe that the record is reflective of the talent on the 25 man roster on opening day. In fact if you look at the quote I didn't say that injuries complete explain the Cubs record. I said that it is some of the reason why they are this bad.

i wasnt putting words in your mouth, i was simply asking.
 

Rick

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I think this was an 80-win team at best even if everyone were healthy.



Dude, no way...even if they were 100% healthy there's no chance in hell they would win 80 games.

youre-youre-crazy-man-frank-the-tank-demotivational-poster-1219152399.jpg
 
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poodski

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Dude, no way...even if they were 100% healthy there's no chance in hell they would win 80 games.

youre-youre-crazy-man-frank-the-tank-demotivational-poster-1219152399.jpg

How do you figure that?

Offensively:

Lee with a better 1B. (50 points better OPS)
Theriot with a better 2B. (50 points better OPS)
Got Castro for a full season rather than just over half a season

So the offense improved

Pitching:

Replaced Silva with Garza
Replaced Gorzellany with Cashner
Added Kerry Wood to the pen

You can't tell me this team wasn't on paper 5 wins better than last years 75 win team.

The Cubs are still 32-31 with their original 5 starters are on the mound, and 5-23 when they aren't.

You don't think the Cubs couldnt have won 8 or so of those 23 losses when guys like Ramon Ortiz, Casey Coleman, Doug Davis, and Rodrigo Lopez are taking the mound?

Coleman and Davis took the bump 18 times. We only won 4 of those.

This is not the second worst team in baseball. It's not a good team, but it's not this bad. 78-82 wins should have been where this team sat. Not in the 60's.
 

dabynsky

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i wasnt putting words in your mouth, i was simply asking.

And I was drinking and posting at the time....

Sorry if it came off in your face, but was just trying to make my point clear about where I thought this team stood. And my opinion is pretty much in line with Rice Cube and Poods. A team hoovering around .500 but probably slightly below by the year's end. I really want to go back and compare the numbers as a whole this staff is putting up to some of the all time great Cubs pitching staffs. Ones that had Frank Castillo and Kevin Foster for example.*

*Just looked at the 1997 pitching staff (the team that went 0-14 to start the season if you don't recall), and they had a quality start % of 51% compare that to 38% last I checked for this year. That pitching staff had Steve Trachsel, Terry Mulholland, Kevin Foster, Geremi Gonzalez, Frank Castillo, Kevin Tapani, Mark Clark, Amaury Telemaco, and Miguel Batista all start games for them that year, and they did a better job of giving the team to win the collection of starters we have had this year.
 

Rice Cube

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28. Cubs (28): My pick of the Cubs to win the Central was not one of those deals where I would have been willing to bet the mortgage. I was feeling optimistic about a bunch of talented and overpaid people putting it together in such a way where the talent would show itself one final time. Bounce back seasons for Pena, Soriano and Ramirez. A good back end of the pen with Wood and Marmol. A pretty decent rotation, at least on paper. Yeah, it would have taken some luck for it all to break right, but this struck me as a good break-right kind of club. And one, I must admit, that had I guessed right on, would have allowed me to look pretty damn clever come October. Ah, well, you win some and you lose some. I mostly lose some when I try to make clever predictions.

Calcaterra on HBT.

Bad luck and all that. Plus the fact the Cubs are bad at baseball.
 

poodski

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Calcaterra on HBT.

Bad luck and all that. Plus the fact the Cubs are bad at baseball.

I guess the question is who on the team is really under-performing what you would have thought if you thought this team was going to be 500 or a possible contender.

Really the only ones of the healthy people that come to mind is Soto and Zambrano.

Everyone else has been what I thought they would be or better. Really makes me wonder what would have happened had Wells and Cashner made 75% of their starts, and Byrd not gone down.
 

CODE_BLUE56

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I think this was an 80-win team at best even if everyone were healthy. They'd need insane production from every single player to get to 85-88 or whatever wins they need to contend. It wasn't realistic. Not impossible, but improbable.

i actually agree...our pitching has been decimated and our starting rotation(w/cashner and wells) is actually above .500..not to mention guys like soto and byrd being hurt and inconsistent...

an 80 win season is still below .500...why is that so hard to fathom:shifty:
 

Rick

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How do you figure that?

Offensively:

Lee with a better 1B. (50 points better OPS)
Theriot with a better 2B. (50 points better OPS)
Got Castro for a full season rather than just over half a season

So the offense improved

Pitching:

Replaced Silva with Garza
Replaced Gorzellany with Cashner
Added Kerry Wood to the pen

You can't tell me this team wasn't on paper 5 wins better than last years 75 win team.

The Cubs are still 32-31 with their original 5 starters are on the mound, and 5-23 when they aren't.

You don't think the Cubs couldnt have won 8 or so of those 23 losses when guys like Ramon Ortiz, Casey Coleman, Doug Davis, and Rodrigo Lopez are taking the mound?

Coleman and Davis took the bump 18 times. We only won 4 of those.

This is not the second worst team in baseball. It's not a good team, but it's not this bad. 78-82 wins should have been where this team sat. Not in the 60's.



I actually just wrote an entire page long response to this and fucking lost it because I didn't know the message board logged me out and I hit reply, the MB told me I was logged out and when I hit back, my whole fucking response was gone.

I'm not typing it again, bottom line was I don't agree with you and you can throw all the sabermetrics you want at me but it won't change my mind that this team was horrible from the start.

Un-fucking real, I just wasted the last half hour typing something for nothing.
 
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