Cub's Prospect Watch And Development Discussion Thread

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CSF77

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wow

Well noticed 3B org depth now:

Jordan Hanks now with Daytona: Combined .320/.362/.469 4 HR
Candi demoted to K.C. combined totals: .188/.270/.319 5 HR

Obviously Theo is not sitting by right now and just going by scouting rankings.

Bryant combined: .346/.448/.714 26 HR 64 RBI
Villanueva combined: .214/.289/.379 7 HR

As we are seeing rankings mean little compared to production.

On Bryant 99% chance he starts in mid Apr. 1% chance he signs a starter contract to promote early. After seeing how he got slot last year and Theo's history has been sign under slot I doubt he will take a lesser contract just to get in early.
 

CSF77

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I would rather have Bryant start in Apr and see his first service year start in 2016. That means he would hit Arb1 2019. Arb 3 2021. F/A 2022. Looking at it that way he might sign a contract to get more of a pay out earlier and give up a year or 2 of F/A.

I look at the big picture. Looking at it from a 2014 perspective is very short sighted. It would be better to just let the year run out. Get Alcantara on the team. Trade out Schierholtz, Bonifacio, Shark and Hammel. Get some arms back. Valbuena is a maybe on a trade.

If the Cubs trade Jason Hammel as expected, the 31-year-old says that he would be open to returning to Chicago in the winter. “I would assume they are pretty happy with my body of work so far and if a trade happens it happens,” Hammel said, according to Jesse Rogers of ESPNChicago.com. “But I guarantee, say I was to go to another team, I love it here. I guarantee you they wouldn’t be opposed to bringing me back next year.“
The Cubs‘ roster moves on Sunday will have long and short-term implications for the club, writes Bruce Miles of the Daily Herald. The Cubs designated catcher Eli Whiteside for assignment and filled his spot on the roster with Tsuyoshi Wada. Wada, who had an opt-out clause in his deal, could be a replacement in the rotation when and if they trade Jeff Samardzija and/or Hammel.

Going into next year we would be looking at Bryant and Baez mid Apr so they would need 2 short term options for 2B and 3B. I would use Watkins and Vakalia. Let them stick on the bench.

Now with payroll: A smart idea would to sign a legit ace to a deal.

If the Cubs trade Jason Hammel as expected, the 31-year-old says that he would be open to returning to Chicago in the winter. “I would assume they are pretty happy with my body of work so far and if a trade happens it happens,” Hammel said, according to Jesse Rogers of ESPNChicago.com. “But I guarantee, say I was to go to another team, I love it here. I guarantee you they wouldn’t be opposed to bringing me back next year.“

I wouldn't go there.

I'm seeing them using Wada and Hendricks to back fill Hammel and Shark.

Wada will be 34 next year. Doubt they retain him.
Hendricks depends on how he performs this year.

If he blows I could see them resigning Hammel..Interesting concept.
To back fill Sharks spot:
Jon Lester (31)
Francisco Liriano (31)
Justin Masterson (30)
James Shields (33)
Max Scherzer (30)


Few arms out there. They should spend here. I would be happy with:
Lester, Arrieta, Wood, Hendricks, Jackson

Jackson: 4 years/$52M (2013-16)
signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent 12/20/12
$8M signing bonus
13:$11M, 14:$11M, 15:$11M, 16:$11M
deal does not include no-trade protection

22 mil to eat. Thae have eaten deals like this in the past. Like trade for a arm and send over 11 mil over. This would make more sense on his last year.
 

CSF77

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7:46
PM CT
Rogers By Jesse Rogers
ESPNChicago.com
Archive
406COMMENTS24EMAILPRINT
CHICAGO – As Chicago Cubs prospect Kris Bryant tears up Triple-A pitching after doing the same in Double-A, the question is going to come up more and more: When is the right time to bring him, or any prospect, up to the majors?

Cubs president of baseball operations Theo Epstein declared last week he couldn’t “foresee” a scenario where Bryant would make it to the big club this season. But based on the team’s own logic about young players, perhaps he’ll reconsider. That and the fact Bryant has four home runs for Iowa already.

[+] EnlargeKris Bryant
Tony Farlow/Four Seam Images/AP Images
Kris Bryant has 43 walks to 85 strikeouts this season -- a solid ratio by today's standards.
“Sometimes there is a rush,” Epstein said. “You take a guy that is still young for his level at Triple-A and he starts to produce decent numbers. Then I see people speculate, ‘Oh, he should be up here, he can help now,’ but you have to look beneath the surface a little bit. If a player [for example] is still struggling with off-speed pitches but he manages to put up respectable numbers, it might not be the right time for him to come up here and all of a sudden get abused by those pitches and have it set back his development. It’s not so much the production as it is where they are on the learning curve with their greatest issues.”

That makes sense. Then Epstein explained the simple metric the Cubs look at most.

“A lot of time you can get clued into that by looking at their walk rate and their strikeout rate,” he said. “If a guy isn’t doing a nice job controlling the strike zone ... if they haven’t mastered that in Triple-A, it might not be the right time for him to come up here. It all depends on the individual, but just because a player is having some statistical success at Triple-A doesn’t mean we’re in a rush to promote him, especially if they are young for their level.”

Epstein didn’t name names, but he easily could have been referring to top Triple-A prospects Javier Baez and Arismendy Alcantara. At .226 with just 11 home runs, shortstop Baez isn’t having much statistical success -- and his walk-to-strikeout rate isn’t hiding some underlying positive season. He's taken just 16 free passes while striking out 91 times -- a walk for about every 5.5 strikeouts. That doesn’t scream command of the zone.

Second baseman Alcantara is a more subtle case because there are plenty of good numbers in his offensive game this season at Iowa. He’s hitting .286, has 10 triples and a .843 OPS. Not bad for a middle infielder. But the Cubs front office won’t like his 69 strikeouts to just 19 walks. It’s not as bad as Baez, but it might be holding Alcantara back from a promotion.

Then there’s Bryant. Compared to Baez and Alcantara, he’s ready for the majors now. Between Double- and Triple-A this season, he has 43 walks and 85 strikeouts. For the best power hitter in the minors through the first half, those numbers are respectable. If he can keep his rate at less than two strikeouts for every walk, Bryant will be on his way. Remember, baseball has changed over the years. Strikeouts are more acceptable now.

“Hitters are going to strike out,” Epstein said. “That’s just modern baseball. Most hitters strike out 20 percent of the time now, which was unheard of when we all started. That’s the way it is now.”

And as the book “Moneyball” showed, walks are more in the spotlight now, too. If the walks don’t come with the strikeouts, then a promotion isn’t coming, either.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/
 

CSF77

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Castro 18.5% SO rate. 5.7% BB rate. BB rate low but SO rate under 20%
Valbuena: 24.6% SO rate 14.5% BB rate. SO are high but offset by high BB rate.
Olt: 42.2% SO rate, 9.7% BB rate. I'm not sure why he is not in Iowa still? They could have promoted Valakia and let Olt develop more. I'm under the opinion they were just using him to build up some trade value. They had no intention of him past this year.

Baez: 37.4% SO rate. 6.6% BB rate. He needs to control the strike zone better. That is just bad.
Alcantara: 25.3% SO rate, 7% BB rate. If he gets it around 10% I would promote him.
 

beckdawg

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Castro 18.5% SO rate. 5.7% BB rate. BB rate low but SO rate under 20%
Valbuena: 24.6% SO rate 14.5% BB rate. SO are high but offset by high BB rate.
Olt: 42.2% SO rate, 9.7% BB rate. I'm not sure why he is not in Iowa still? They could have promoted Valakia and let Olt develop more. I'm under the opinion they were just using him to build up some trade value. They had no intention of him past this year.

Baez: 37.4% SO rate. 6.6% BB rate. He needs to control the strike zone better. That is just bad.
Alcantara: 25.3% SO rate, 7% BB rate. If he gets it around 10% I would promote him.

With regard to Alcantara, he's way up in walks over the past month. If I remember right he's been around 10% walk rate. I'd be surprised if they didn't call him up for the second half of the season especially when you consider you want him to get some AB's prior to Baez potentially supplanting him.
 

CSF77

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With regard to Alcantara, he's way up in walks over the past month. If I remember right he's been around 10% walk rate. I'd be surprised if they didn't call him up for the second half of the season especially when you consider you want him to get some AB's prior to Baez potentially supplanting him.

Alcantara: 25.3% SO rate, 7% BB rate.
Bonifacio: 17.4% SO rate. 6.6% BB rate.

The way I look at it if a player below 10% BB then his SO's should be lower that 20%. It means he is a contact hitter and puts the ball in play.

If a player is below 10% BB and above 20% SO then he is doing a poor job controlling the strike zone.

Rodgers put it out pretty strait forward.

Alcantara:
Apr: 23% SO/3.4% BB
May 29.4% SO/7.8% BB
June: 22.6% SO/ 9.5% BB

Even at his best he is still over 2 SO/BB. June: 2.38 SO per BB. Little high.
Over all 3.63 SO per BB.

He has shown improvement but it is still below standards.
 

chibears55

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@RandyWehofer: Kris Bryant gives the @IowaCubs a 3-1 lead with a 3-run HR in the 1st. Hit it 337 feet off the top of the RF wall #Cubs #5hits5HR

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CSF77

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With all the love they give Lake: 8.44 SO per BB. That just sucks. 34.7% SO/4.1% BB.

Again with all of the talk about development they let players like Lake put up poor numbers like this.

Again just goes into the mixed signally being put out and how Ricky over values speed and bunting for hits.... How about making him take pitches and drawing BB. Or is that above Lake's paygrade.
 

CSF77

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@RandyWehofer: Kris Bryant gives the @IowaCubs a 3-1 lead with a 3-run HR in the 1st. Hit it 337 feet off the top of the RF wall #Cubs #5hits5HR

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Looks like the adjustment peroid is over for Bryant. Some guys just get it.
 

CSF77

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Love how he tee's off in the 1st then they don't pitch to him in his 2nd AB. No one is going to man up against him pretty soon.
 

beckdawg

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Well just as reference Alcantara finished last season at 10.9%/21.9% with that being over 500 PAs. So, his June numbers are much more in line with that. And more importantly, his hits have been numerous in extra bases. He's got 18 doubles and 10 triples on the season. If you compare that to Bryant who's clearly having a monster season, Bryant has 20 doubles and no triples. The triples obviously aren't surprising given he's not a speedster but the fact that Alcantara is keeping up in terms of doubles is very nice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as much as anyone on the bb/k rate bandwagon as a predictor stat. But 20% these days is fairly common. So, yes he's got a little ways to go in terms of his june numbers but if we assume that's what he should be based off his season last year he can likely get down to 20% by the time he's called up. And even still, he's getting on base at a .330 clip or .362 if you prefer wOBA. I really don't worry about players until they get over 25% because as we saw with Bryant in AA, you can adjust down 5% or so pretty easy. What worried me about Baez prior to the season was that at 28.8% if you knock 5% off that with development the roughly 24% k rate is worrying.
 

JZsportsfan

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Wish the Cubs would shift Baez over to 2nd and Alcantra to CF now.
 

CSF77

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Well just as reference Alcantara finished last season at 10.9%/21.9% with that being over 500 PAs. So, his June numbers are much more in line with that. And more importantly, his hits have been numerous in extra bases. He's got 18 doubles and 10 triples on the season. If you compare that to Bryant who's clearly having a monster season, Bryant has 20 doubles and no triples. The triples obviously aren't surprising given he's not a speedster but the fact that Alcantara is keeping up in terms of doubles is very nice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as much as anyone on the bb/k rate bandwagon as a predictor stat. But 20% these days is fairly common. So, yes he's got a little ways to go in terms of his june numbers but if we assume that's what he should be based off his season last year he can likely get down to 20% by the time he's called up. And even still, he's getting on base at a .330 clip or .362 if you prefer wOBA. I really don't worry about players until they get over 25% because as we saw with Bryant in AA, you can adjust down 5% or so pretty easy. What worried me about Baez prior to the season was that at 28.8% if you knock 5% off that with development the roughly 24% k rate is worrying.

He is heading in the right direction. I would rather have him over Bonifacio for the rest of the year. Bonifacio was hitting .222 after Apr.

Looking at it seriously for a second. I'm leaning towards them promoting Bryant this year. Ya dude is elite talent. With in 1 year he blows up to AAA and has pitchers scared to pitch to him? Ya you push the button here.

Alcantara and Baez I would let their strike zone management dictate their time clocks.
 

beckdawg

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Wish the Cubs would shift Baez over to 2nd and Alcantra to CF now.

I don't want that. I'd rather they shift Bryant to RF and Baez to 3B. Alcantara isn't going to be a very good defensive CF. Lake in CF is a very similar player because he came up as a SS/3B/2B that eventually got forced out of the infield by better players. In LF he's had a UZR of 23.2 over 76 games which is good. However you have to remember that LF standards are much lower as you usually stick great hitter no defense players there. In CF Lake has a UZR of -22.6 over 46 which is pretty terrible.

On the contrary, Alcantara at 2B in the minors has been pretty decent defensively. Bryant moving to RF would arguably make him better defensively where he's been pretty poor at 3B fielding% wise. Baez moving to 3B from SS would make him better too in theory.
 

beckdawg

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He is heading in the right direction. I would rather have him over Bonifacio for the rest of the year. Bonifacio was hitting .222 after Apr.

Looking at it seriously for a second. I'm leaning towards them promoting Bryant this year. Ya dude is elite talent. With in 1 year he blows up to AAA and has pitchers scared to pitch to him? Ya you push the button here.

Alcantara and Baez I would let their strike zone management dictate their time clocks.

I don't think you have to have service clocks even matter. If it were me, I'd give them until August in the minors then call both up. That's more than enough to avoid super two. It leaves Bryant a month or so of AAA pitching to see if he's good enough. It frees roster spots on the 40 man assuming trades happen. And it gives Alcantara a little more time to work on his k rate/bb rate.
 

brett05

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Don't they have openings already on the 40?

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CSF77

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I don't want that. I'd rather they shift Bryant to RF and Baez to 3B. Alcantara isn't going to be a very good defensive CF. Lake in CF is a very similar player because he came up as a SS/3B/2B that eventually got forced out of the infield by better players. In LF he's had a UZR of 23.2 over 76 games which is good. However you have to remember that LF standards are much lower as you usually stick great hitter no defense players there. In CF Lake has a UZR of -22.6 over 46 which is pretty terrible.

On the contrary, Alcantara at 2B in the minors has been pretty decent defensively. Bryant moving to RF would arguably make him better defensively where he's been pretty poor at 3B fielding% wise. Baez moving to 3B from SS would make him better too in theory.


If pressed I would leave Bryant at 3B. Castro at SS, Alcantara 2B. Baez pushed over to RF. He has a strong arm and played CF in HS. His arm would play big in RF. His power plays anywhere on the Cubs.

Looking at it: This year they could promote both Bryant and Alcantara. Their development shows they are major league ready right now. Olt and Lake have shown they have poor strike zone management skills.

The only problem I for see is Valbuena. He has proven to be very solid and I would like to find a spot for him. That is a reason why I wouldn't mind seeing Lake demoted and Alcantara in LF at least.

Interesting situation:

CF: Bonifacio
LF: Alcantara
1B: Rizzo
3B: Bryant
SS: Castro
RF: Baez
2B: Valbuena
C: Castillo

It would be interesting seeing that for next year.
 

beckdawg

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Don't they have openings already on the 40?

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Not as far as I know. They just outrighted Whiteside to make space on it for Wada. Alcantara is already on the 40 man so he's not an issue.
 

CSF77

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Don't they have openings already on the 40?

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They had to cut whiteside to get Wada on it. He had an opt out clause. Fingers are pointing to him being the first call up after they trade a SP. He has earned it.
 
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