Cubs Trade Castro to Yankees

[Boobaby1]

He was thought so much of by the Cubs brass that they traded him away to free up money to sign Zobrist, and get Adam Warren in return.

Lets not anoint him into the Hall of Fame. He was a mediocre player who was benched for stupid base running mistakes and lapses on the field, and wasn't a part of the Cubs future. For that I am glad to have Russell and not Castro ALL DAY LONG.

 

[Parade_Rain]

He was thought so much of by the Cubs brass that they traded him away to free up money to sign Zobrist, and get Adam Warren in return.

Lets not anoint him into the Hall of Fame. He was a mediocre player who was benched for stupid base running mistakes and lapses on the field, and wasn't a part of the Cubs future. For that I am glad to have Russell and not Castro ALL DAY LONG.

1) No one anointed him into the Hall of Fame.
2) When the Cubs traded for Russell, the writing was on the wall. One look at Russell's swing and it was easy to see the power potential compared to Castro.
3) The acquisition of Zobrist made that trade easy. Zobrist is a superior player.

 

[SilenceS]

That's an equally irrelevant and terrible argument. You were on much firmer ground trying to move the goalposts on fWAR ranges.

You have been wrong, so you dismiss it. That is it. He wasnt a coaches pick because the team had no all star. He was selected by the players. His peers thought enough of him. They must have been brain washed by the Cubs brass.

 

[SilenceS]

I think the Yankees are pretty ok with a 27 year old MI that is going to crank 20 home runs. I watch the Yankees and the announcers rave about his D up the middle. Im not going to call him a stud there, but he is pretty good at second. The Yankees got him for essentially nothing. They would do that trade over and over again.

 

[fatbeard]

You have been wrong, so you dismiss it. That is it. He wasnt a coaches pick because the team had no all star. He was selected by the players. His peers thought enough of him. They must have been brain washed by the Cubs brass.

The flaws of this argument are so obvious they should be self-evident. Peer evaluations are not objective data or evidence of superior performance at all. If every current MLB player, coach, and front office man sincerely believed Starlin Castro was the greatest SS of all time it still wouldn't make it true.

 

[fatbeard]

I think the Yankees are pretty ok with a 27 year old MI that is going to crank 20 home runs. I watch the Yankees and the announcers rave about his D up the middle. Im not going to call him a stud there, but he is pretty good at second. The Yankees got him for essentially nothing. They would do that trade over and over again.

I doubt they're "pretty ok" with his .299 OBA or his .309 wOBA or his 91 wRC+. If fact, he's a below-average offensive player almost across the board in every important metric. I also doubt they're "pretty ok" with getting a -8 DRS or -6.1 UZR/150 to go along with that underwhelming offense. But hey, he hits a decent number of dingers and the announcers perceive him to be a slick fielder, so that's what counts!

Cherry-picking counting stats and a few subjective assessments by biased parties is a pretty bad way to make a point.

 

[SilenceS]

I doubt they're "pretty ok" with his .299 OBA or his .309 wOBA or his 91 wRC+. If fact, he's a below-average offensive player almost across the board in every important metric. I also doubt they're "pretty ok" with getting a -8 DRS or -6.1 UZR/150 to go along with that underwhelming offense. But hey, he hits a decent number of dingers and the announcers perceive him to be a slick fielder, so that's what counts!

Cherry-picking counting stats and a few subjective assessments by biased parties is a pretty bad way to make a point.[/QUOTE]

:aj: So, to clarify, Castro is a failed major league starter even though his fWAR suggest he isnt. He was voted in twice by the players, but they arent subjective. You are subjective. The Yankees paid nothing for him in the end and they arent satisfied besides a couple of homer announcers. Got it. Your points were clear and precise.

 

[fatbeard]

I take it all back. Starlin Castro is a fantastic baseball player because he hits dingers and the Yankees announcers like him. Never mind the fact that, out of 22 qualifying MLB second basemen, he is 19th in fWAR.

There's a watertight case if I've ever heard one. Perhaps you should consider a career in law?

 

[SilenceS]

I take it all back. Starlin Castro is a fantastic baseball player because he hits dingers and the Yankees announcers like him. Never mind the fact that, out of 22 qualifying MLB second basemen, he is 19th in fWAR.

There's a watertight case if I've ever heard one. Perhaps you should consider a career in law?

Yet again, what was your point of bumping this thread? You keep talking like people said he is HOF or GOAT. He was traded for a guy that was so bad. The Cubs threw him back into a package just to get rid of him. Yet again, you set the parameters by using fWAR. You know what Adam Warren fWAR is? -.5. Thats right a negative. So, in the end, you seem to be trying to act high and mighty by dismissing facts to fit your narrative. Castro will be the Yankee's second base starter next year as well. Im sorry you see no value in a MI that is going to hit 20 homers compared to a reliever with over a 5 ERA. Zobrist was the writing on the wall for Castro, but it seems like you harbor some weird hate to try to knock him while he isnt even on this team. You sound like Ommy. May your multi million dollar negotiations be adventurous.

 

[fatbeard]

Yet again, what was your point of bumping this thread?

To discuss the baseball value of Starlin Castro in light of another season's worth of data. Would you rather I start a new thread? I thought this one would work just fine, and really, what's the difference?

You keep talking like people said he is HOF or GOAT.

No, they claimed--and continue to claim--that he is a good, or even average, baseball player, a claim that is just as wrong and nearly as absurd.

He was traded for a guy that was so bad. The Cubs threw him back into a package just to get rid of him. Yet again, you set the parameters by using fWAR. You know what Adam Warren fWAR is? -.5. Thats right a negative. So, in the end, you seem to be trying to act high and mighty by dismissing facts to fit your narrative.

What does Adam Warren have to do with Starlin Castro's baseball value? And have I mentioned the words 'Adam Warren' once in this thread? If so, please point it out, because I can't quite seem to find it.

Castro will be the Yankee's second base starter next year as well.

That says more about the state of the Yankees and their farm system than it does about the value of Starlin Castro.

Zobrist was the writing on the wall for Castro, but it seems like you harbor some weird hate to try to knock him while he isnt even on this team.

Is it "hating" Starlin Castro to call him a below-average baseball player, when that's exactly what every metric tells us he is? I had no idea.

 

[Parade_Rain]

what a great thread necro. "hai, guyz. I told you castro was a bum and i'm bumping this thread to give myself better feelz."

qft

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

What was the reason for necro posting this.

To debate the merits of role players

Maybe but really I think someone did run over his puppy.

Yes. It's a terrible argument because you say so. Did someone run over your puppy today?

All things to possibly bring up for debate....and Castro?

 

[fatbeard]

Good, good...let the hate flow through you.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Good, good...let the hate flow through you.

Release the good!

[video=youtube;42UGvmEf820]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UGvmEf820[/video]

 

[dabears253313]

Because nothing says "objective valuation of player performance" quite like ballot-stuffing by hopelessly biased fans in favor of their hometown players. Let alone the fact that each team has at least one player elected to the ASG regardless of whether or not they actually deserve it.

Honestly, out of all the arguments that could be made in favor of the value of Starlin Castro, the one you've chosen might be the worst. Congratulations!

That would be a good point if he was the only player selected from the Cubs

2011 was the only time Castro ended up being the only Cubs all star. 2014 Rizzo was chosen and 2012 LaHair was chosen. If he wasn't worthy they would have only taken Rizzo and LaHair because of the "one player from each team rule" right?

He recorded over 200 hits and hit .300 in 2011, but he was an all star because the Cubs needed a player to represent them, right?

 

[dabears253313]

Release the good!

[video=youtube;42UGvmEf820]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UGvmEf820[/video]

Popeye's Chicken is the shiznit!

 

[fatbeard]

That would be a good point if he was the only player selected from the Cubs

2011 was the only time Castro ended up being the only Cubs all star. 2014 Rizzo was chosen and 2012 LaHair was chosen. If he wasn't worthy they would have only taken Rizzo and LaHair because of the "one player from each team rule" right?

He recorded over 200 hits and hit .300 in 2011, but he was an all star because the Cubs needed a player to represent them, right?

Counting stats and batting average...more great stuff from CCS!

Keep it up, guys!

 

[DanTown]

- According to Fangraphs, Starlin Castro joins Scooter Gennett as the only qualified 2B who are below average both offensively and defensively
- Starlin ranks 19th out of 22 qualified players in fWAR at 1.2 even though he has 532 PA
- Starlin ranks 27th out of 43 2B who have at least 200 PA, trailing former Cub Darwin Barney among others
- If you were to rank players by PA / WAR (essentially how many PA did it take for a player to earn 1 WAR), Castro ranks 34th out of 43 guys with at least 200 PA

Starlin Castro has been essentially a replacement player three out of the previous four years. That doesn't mean he wasn't very good at the start of his career because he was good then; however, recent data suggests that he's not a good baseball player and not a good investment in terms of money spent. While the Warren move did not work out, it was a good risk.

Starlin Castro in the past four years has 2384 PA and a total fWAR of 4.9. That ranks 22nd out of 40 qualified 2B. If you did PA / WAR again for those 40 2B, Starlin is 33rd on that list. It's safe to say that the Yankees are getting the worst return in terms of money spent for production at 2B in the entire league.

 

[TL1961]

Silence is going to ban your ass!

 

[TL1961]

He was voted in by the players twice.

The AL players, that is.