Derrick Rose named 2010-2011 MVP

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,733
Yeah I don't think that it's fair when people brush off Howard because he (a) gets into foul trouble too often, (b) gets technical fouls too often, (c) and dismiss his FG% because he gets all of his shots within 0-8 feet.

It is a fair knock on Howard that he shoots too low of a FT% (just like it's a fair knock on Rose that his FG% is a bit too low because he often shoots too many three's that he has not much business taking because he simply isn't a great three-point shooter). And Rose is nowhere near the top perimeter defensive player while Dwight Howard dominates other frontcourt on defense in the lane and at defending the rim.

Howard gets a lot of technicals largely because referees don't know how to officiate him. He often gets whacked downlow with an elbow or a dirty shot and it doesn't affect him as it would a smaller, weaker player. But Howard reacts out of frustration and the ref ends up slapping Howard with the technical foul because they didn't see the initial dirty hit by the defender. It's true that Dwight often overreacts, but I believe that rules make it too easy to hand out T's.

Howard gets a lot of personal fouls simply because SVG has ORL playing 4 men out on the perimeter, guarding the three-point line, with a 4-to-3 advantage while Howard has to play the PF and C roles and often has to go 1-vs-2. No one man can do that task without getting into foul trouble. Sure, I've seen Howard commit some silly fouls. But not more than any other player on defense that plays as many minutes as him. The reason the fouls are so many is because a guy like Dwight Howard is responsible for doing what a KG+Kendrick Perkins did. That is due to poor defensive strategy... not Dwight's fault.
 

Anytime23

Boding Well
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
Posts:
38,011
Liked Posts:
36,801
Anytime, you really need to go back a few pages and actually read through my arguments again. You're a complete headcase, dude. I recommend everyone reading this actually goes back to better understand the argument and how pointless it really was coming from a guy who agrees with Rose being the MVP.

You should try reading it and not taking my kudos for Howard as such a knock against Rose.

From the very beginning, my problem isnt that you like Rose over Howard but its your reasoning behind it. Shot difficulty and FT% is not the way to go about it. Im just gonna end it at all at that and agree to disagree. We'll all be cheering for Rose tonight and celebrate his award tomorrow.
 

Undisputed

New member
Joined:
May 28, 2010
Posts:
901
Liked Posts:
220
You didnt disagree. You blew off every point i made and used my location as a knock against my opinion when in fact you know nothing about me or my loyalty for the Bulls. Thats what makes you a child. I didnt say "You live in Chicago so youre a Rose fan boy and your opinion is flawed"
I did disagree. I didn't blow off every point you made, I responded to them with my opinion. Like I said, go back and read the responses where I typed multiple paragraph's directly to you. Blowing you off would mean I ignored you, and I didn't ignore anything that shouldn't have been. I'm not going to keep on rehashing my arguments over and over. I said my peace.

Calling someone a moron because of their opinion and calling me a "Rose jizz drinker" is much more childish than what I did.

Youre uninformed because FT% is not a factor when a player is so dominant. I used Shaq as an example of this but there you go and twist the argument. So now a player with a poor FT% needs over 25ppg, makes perfect sense. If Howard had over 25PPG, im sure you would find some other means to downplay his season. Please keep googling Shaqs stats and try to twist your argument. Try watching games that dont take place in the UC.
Shaq got the MVP on a much better season than what Dwight put up this year. You can't compare those two. Call that twisting, but anyone who actually watched Shaq play in 1999-2000 know that Howard can only wish to achieve that kind of dominance. If Howard was as good and dominant as Shaq was offensively, then I would be more willing to ignore his free throw woes. Until then, it will be part of the discussion.
 

Anytime23

Boding Well
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
Posts:
38,011
Liked Posts:
36,801
No one said Howard dominates like Shaq and as I already stated, Shaq is arguably the most dominance presence to ever step on the court.

I'm simply using Shaq as an example on how your FT% and shot difficulty argument is irrelevant and off base.
 

houheffna

Ignoring Idiots
Joined:
May 6, 2009
Posts:
8,673
Liked Posts:
2,711
Completely agree with this. You know me, my support for Rose in the MVP case and the Bulls as a whole. Im just not cool with people completely brushing off what Howard does and making all the wrong cases against him. Dont mention FT%. Mention how his technical fouls and late game poise(or lack there of) have prevented his team from winning games. Dont tell me his shooting% is hyped because of the shot selection and difficulty. Last time i checked, games are won by who scores the most points. No one in the league creates buckets at a higher efficiency while limiting the opponents than Howard does. Thats all im gonna say on that subject.

Love Rose, cant wait for the official work to come out when he wins the MVP. He deserves it and many more awards will come for this kid.

I am glad to see you look at things the way you do...that said. You CAN be objective...You CAN weight the pros and cons of each athlete...and You CAN still think Rose is the MVP. That is not impossible, neither is it subjective.

To say that Howard scores at an elite level because he is big doesn't work. Again, did Shaq deserve the MVP he got? Did Olajuwan, Robinson? Kareem got 6 of them, Russell 5, Wilt 3, Moses 3...none of them could shoot three pointers routinely. They ALL shot under the basket. That was their job and that is what they excelled at. Howard is dominant because he is bigger and stronger than other centers...but can't the same be said for Rose? Too big, too fast, too strong, too good? Applies to both of them. Being objective about the league does not mean you are against your team. Point blank...
 

Anytime23

Boding Well
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
Posts:
38,011
Liked Posts:
36,801
I am glad to see you look at things the way you do...that said. You CAN be objective...You CAN weight the pros and cons of each athlete...and You CAN still think Rose is the MVP. That is not impossible, neither is it subjective.

To say that Howard scores at an elite level because he is big doesn't work. Again, did Shaq deserve the MVP he got? Did Olajuwan, Robinson? Kareem got 6 of them, Russell 5, Wilt 3, Moses 3...none of them could shoot three pointers routinely. They ALL shot under the basket. That was their job and that is what they excelled at. Howard is dominant because he is bigger and stronger than other centers...but can't the same be said for Rose? Too big, too fast, too strong, too good? Applies to both of them. Being objective about the league does not mean you are against your team. Point blank...

Exactly. You cant take anything away from Rose because hes faster and stronger than probably 99% of the PGs he'll face. Cant blame a guy for being bigger than others. Thats exactly why Shaq was so dominant, it was his size, it was unmatched. His mere presence on the court commanded attention and double teams. Its silly to knock some one for their natural ability. People praise LeBron for his combination of size, strength and speed. If he didnt have all of that, he wouldnt be nearly the player he is.

And all of this talk about Howards techs... I honestly dont think thats Howard. He's spent his first 5 years or so in the league being the friendly, laughing clown type big man. When Orlando lost in the finals, a lot of questions were brought up about his maturity and his lack of seriousness on the court. Since then Ive seen a guy with a much shorter fuse. I think he's trying to be the guy everyone wants him to be. But techs are techs and he gets them far too often.
 

X

When one letter is enough
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
May 12, 2010
Posts:
24,664
Liked Posts:
7,783
If Howard wins more, he's probably MVP.

There -- glad I settled that. You two can be civil again :)
 

Undisputed

New member
Joined:
May 28, 2010
Posts:
901
Liked Posts:
220
I am glad to see you look at things the way you do...that said. You CAN be objective...You CAN weight the pros and cons of each athlete...and You CAN still think Rose is the MVP. That is not impossible, neither is it subjective.

To say that Howard scores at an elite level because he is big doesn't work. Again, did Shaq deserve the MVP he got?
I'm actually very objective with most basketball related discussions, except the MVP discussion this year. There's only one man who really deserves it this season, and that's all there is to it. Give me hypotheticals, if's, and's, or whatever, doesn't change the fact.

I've already responded to the Shaq thing. Shaq deserved his award because he had an outrageous season for a center. Dwights impact this season was no where near 1999-2000 Shaq. If Dwight put up 29/13-14 I would totally be at peace with him being in the MVP discussion.

X Factor said:
If Howard wins more, he's probably MVP.

There -- glad I settled that. You two can be civil again

It's always civil with me. :woot:
 
Last edited:

BigP50

04-21-2012
Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
Posts:
7,856
Liked Posts:
548
Location:
Lincoln, Nebraska
got the ESPN text, MVP!
 

Undisputed

New member
Joined:
May 28, 2010
Posts:
901
Liked Posts:
220

X

When one letter is enough
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
May 12, 2010
Posts:
24,664
Liked Posts:
7,783
Shit on yourself, Howard.


But, when you're done doing that, you can come to Chicago if you want :)
 

Undisputed

New member
Joined:
May 28, 2010
Posts:
901
Liked Posts:
220
Shit on yourself, Howard.


But, when you're done doing that, you can come to Chicago if you want :)

You're damn right. :smoke: Rose and Howard on the same team would create a dynasty. It'd be a beautiful thing.

You know, this is great revenge for the times Howard knocked Rose out of games.
 

BleacherBoy

New member
Joined:
May 3, 2011
Posts:
2
Liked Posts:
0
Well-earned award and accolades to D-Rose, and his acceptance speech today showed how genuine he is. To have that skill and still work so hard and so such heart is amazing and we're lucky to have this hometown hero on our roster.



MVP! MVP!
 

X

When one letter is enough
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
May 12, 2010
Posts:
24,664
Liked Posts:
7,783
Anybody see his presser? He thanked his mom. That's funny, because at Lebum's presser when he won MVP, Delonte West thanked his mom.
 

CODE_BLUE56

Ded
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
Apr 18, 2010
Posts:
19,725
Liked Posts:
4,699
Location:
Texas
damn it...that means cal will get more guards








nah but congrats rose
 

X

When one letter is enough
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
May 12, 2010
Posts:
24,664
Liked Posts:
7,783
Anybody see his presser? He thanked his mom. That's funny, because at Lebum's presser when he won MVP, Delonte West thanked his mom.

can't believe only 2 ppl like this...I thought it was good :shrug:
 

zack54attack

Bears
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
18,834
Liked Posts:
7,449
Location:
Forest Park
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Fire
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. North Carolina Tar Heels
a14vg1.jpg
 

Top